JoeCanada Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 76 Topics Per Day: 0.03 Content Count: 1,250 Content Per Day: 0.55 Reputation: 672 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/26/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Matthew 24 is primarily about Israel during the coming tribulation period So your interpretation is bogus Are you a false teacher, or just listening to one So are you saying that Jesus's teaching in Mathew 24 is for the Jews only?.....and not for the church? Please correct me if I am wrong, but in Mathew 24, Jesus is telling us about the coming great tribulation, the rapture and the resurrection of the elect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, wingnut- said: Yes, and Paul is pretty clear about it in the passage I think. II Thessalonians 2:9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. OK, so tell us what or who in verse 3a is the restraining force being removed. It MUST be there, because in 3b the man of sin IS revealed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said: Matthew 24 is primarily about Israel during the coming tribulation period So your interpretation is bogus Are you a false teacher, or just listening to one I agree with Daniel: for example, the church does not meet in synagogues. Kuke 21:12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplejeff Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Mars Hill Followers: 12 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,689 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 20 Joined: 06/30/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 minutes ago, iamlamad said: OK, so tell us what or who in verse 3a is the restraining force being removed. It MUST be there, because in 3b the man of sin IS revealed. That may be a terrible error of tradition, and not an accurate understanding today. Years ago there were some references online. They are not there any more. (haven't found this year) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 5 hours ago, wingnut- said: No, I think you are missing the timing because you are overlooking what is said. What you overlook, is what He said in verse 12, lawlessness is increased. When does that happen? What increases lawlessness? Matthew 24:9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and put you to death, and you will be hated by all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved. How about this? I Timothy 4 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. And then there is this. Hebrews 6:4 For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. Really this begins in Hebrews 5, at verse 11, with a warning against apostasy, on which the writer says "on this we have much to say". What you should take note of in all of this, is the Greek word, being the same one that you attempt to alter the meaning of in II Thessalonians. Scripture clearly defines the meaning of the word, and what it represents, and by attempting to make it represent the same thing as harpazo you are doing a disservice to the truth. God bless If you notice, it is not until verse 13 that "the end" is written. What comes before "the end" is the church age. By the way, in case you have not noticed it, lawlessness is increasing NOW. And we are still in the church age. "The end" has not started. The two Greek words are similar but not the same word. Apostasia comes from aphistēmi. Both are compound words with "apo" as the first Greek word. I am not in disagreement as to the usual use of this word. I just don't think Paul used this word in its usually meaning. Words can have different meanings. And in its context, a falling way does not fit the context as well as a departing as in the church. One thing is absolute and cannot be argued: in verses 6 -8 Paul lays out HOW the man of sin can be revealed. It will be by the one restraining being "taken out of the way." And in 3b the man of sin IS revealed. If you wish to disagree, show us all HOW the man of sin is revealed. Show us what or who the restrainer is and HOW He or it is "taken out of the way." This information MUST be there, for Paul wrote, "and now you know..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, simplejeff said: That may be a terrible error of tradition, and not an accurate understanding today. Years ago there were some references online. They are not there any more. (haven't found this year) Really, "becoming out of the midst" as some think it should be, is not far off from "taken out of the way." In either case, it is the one restraining being removed so that there will be no more restraining. Edited February 22, 2018 by iamlamad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Giller said: And besides it does not say the term "great" falling away, but rather just falling away, and in the other scripture of some departing from the faith, it does not say how many the some are. But if we look at what is happening today, you can see that the falling away is great. And some departing from the faith, just shows that not all shall depart from the faith. It uses the Greek word we translate as THE apostasia; in other words a very significant and perhaps well known one. We don't see the whole picture. Perhaps some are falling away from the faith here in the US, but in other parts of the world, the church is growing fast. Overall the church has more members today than it had a hundred years ago. The church is GROWING, not shrinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Last Daze said: Is "church age" a biblical term? Do you NEED a biblical term? Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted February 22, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 22, 2018 9 hours ago, Giller said: The latter times is now of course, but I believe that the falling away and the departing from faith is referring to the same thing, it is a witness verse, to the falling away. It is the Catholic church leading this apostasia, and Christians that partake of this ecumenical movement are falling away from the faith through compromise. And Islamabad, the falling away totally fits the context, for think of it this way, what better way to prepare people to receive the antichrist, but by there being less Christians standing for truth? And in this chapter it talks about the mystery of iniquity, the wicked one, so why not something else that is negative such as the falling away? And besides by comparing scriptures with scriptures, which God tells us to do, you see that the Holy Ghost is still present, and there is not another scripture that bears witness with your interpretation of it referring to the Holy Ghost being taken out of the way, but there is another scripture that bears witness of a departing of the faith in the latter days !!! I know were you are coming from Islamabad, I use to believe also that he who was taken out of the way, refers to the Holy Ghost, until I did a thorough study of it myself, then I had to let go of that doctrine. We have to be able , in some fashion to think for ourselves, through of course seeking understanding of scriptures through the Holy Ghost. The way Paul wrote it, it must be a significant departing, not just any kind of common departing. It must be big or dramatic enough so that all will know it has happened. If it is a falling away, how will anyone know when enough has fallen away to be what Paul was meaning? Next, the meaning of apostasia has to be the one restraining taken out of the way - if words mean anything. There is nothing else in this passage that would even come close to being something "taken out of the way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Daze Posted February 23, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Online Share Posted February 23, 2018 1 hour ago, iamlamad said: Do you NEED a biblical term? Ephesians 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 1 Corinthians 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me. It may seem strange to you but I prefer to use biblical terms. It helps to keep people from just making stuff up. The verses you quoted in no way support the idea of a "church age". The word translated "dispensation" is a stewardship term. In no sense of the word does it refer to a span of time. Its like you didn't even try. Care to try again? Or can we just agree that "church age" isn't biblical. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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