WHAT IS THE FALLING AWAY

[simplejeff]

45 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

So then who are  those " falling away " ,  the lost that day who will not be lost tomorrow ? 

Or the lost that day that will still be lost tomorrow ?

Why ask me ?  Who knows who is lost today ?  Who knows who is lost forever ?  Who knows who will be saved tomorrow ?

[Sister]

Thank you Heleadethme

I see it like this, and cannot understand how something so simple can be made so complicated.

 2 Thessalonians 2:1   Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

  2 Thessalonians 2:2   That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

2 Thessalonians 2:3   Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

 2 Thessalonians 2:4   Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

The gathering in Christ when he comes with his reward, for all his loyal saints, will not happen until two major events come first.  We are given these events in short, just the facts without all the minor details.

The first one is the falling away.  We all know this is happening now,...this must come first.

And the second event is when the "Son of Perdition" , the one above who does all these things by exalting himelf pretending he's God, who placed himself in God's seat among the hearts of men, will be revealed.

He is going to be red faced, and made to eat his words when the Lord comes and humiliates him in front of the whole world.  Exposed for his lie.

so 2 major events.  These are the facts. 

 2 Thessalonians 2:6   And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

Now we know what withholds the gathering of the saints unto Christ.....the falling away, and this man who must come first and be revealed....he will be revealed at the Coming.  He made that clear. 

He also made clear that the "mystery of iniquity" which was already at work, will continue until he is taken out of the way.  Who will be taken out of the way?  The one he just explained to us, the son of Perdition..the very last world leader, who will be the last of the last.  After him no more man's rule, EVER.    Evil will continue until the FP is taken out of the way at the Coming.  All this will happen at the 7th trumpet. 

Only then will the gathering of the saints unto the Lord take place.  Not a day before.

It has nothing to do with the church being taken out of the way, or the holy spirit, ....that is just an interpretation that holds no water in my eyes.  The KJV needs no correction,  it's simple, straight forward and pretty clear to me what it's saying, by just giving the simple facts.

 

 

 

 
 

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, Sister said:

Now we know what withholds the Lord Coming,....the falling away, and this man who must come first and be revealed....at the Coming.  He made that clear. 

Realize that this is probably not understood correctly,  since the Apostles and disciples who were ekklesia who knew JESUS and were trained BY JESUS expected JESUS to return in their lifetimes ,   eagerly awaiting Him and looking to the Father Daily , and the Father did not tell them they were wrong , no ,  and this has been so ever since then as well. 

[frienduff thaylorde]

6 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

It's not the popes lol.

You mean its not ONLY in the popes.    Sure the spirit of anti Christ aint just in rome..

Its in many places , many .

But what rome leads in , and what others are being gathered into,   oh it will come to the full.

When it does the one it was leading all to,   will stand and him and kings will join as one

do that which was purposed long ago.    And the great tribulation World wide will begin.  Only to those who bought this all inclusive lie for world

peace.  They wont see it as tribulation against the few true.   they will see it as a necessary means against , well how to word this,   Against

what they and society deems as dangerous.    Watch and see if many churches , many faiths, many other religons , secular and etc

don't keep joining hand in hand for this all inclusive world peace dream lie .  

Just give it a lil more time .      You will see.   

[frienduff thaylorde]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You don't have the point of view that the Lord has. In His view the church has been steadily GROWING worldwide for years. If some do actually "fall away," many more enter the body of Christ on earth.

This could not be Paul's meaning, for no one would know, if they saw some local people fall away, what was happening worldwide. And Paul said it was a very significant apostasia or departing. How would any one person know if what he saw was "enough" to fit Paul's description  - so he or she would know they saw what Paul was describing?

This could not be Paul's meaning, for no one would know, if they saw some local people fall away, what was happening worldwide

Here.    watch this .      We both know that for a long time the churches have gotten worse .   I mean you see that .

Want to hear one heck of a delusion .    When supposed christains and muslims , buddits ,  secular , wican ,  I mean you name it

they more and more starting to join hands for world peace and unity  and Jesus is at the most being seen as just one way among many,

then know that is deception.   But what is a huge deception is when In JESUS NAME this is done .  meaning we both know the world can be decieved

and we both know all other religions are deceived.   But when the ones doing the major deceiving and leading this is a supposed christain church

THAT IS MASSIVE DECEPTION.  convince the blind their are many ways, and by all means they can accept this

BUT TO CONVINCE the very Church of a fundamental Doctrine , THE JESUS ONLY SAVES and no other name can,   convince them this aint so

THAT has got to be a serious falling away going on .   AND YES it is increasing .     And yes ROME lead and leads the charge

and yes ROME aint the only one .  

And iamlamad,    I don't just SEE a few locals ,  I SEE it world wide .    Yeah it do fit pauls description and watch who it will lead to

The one who BY PEACE destroys many.     Yeah ,   its going on RIGHT NOW .    can you see it .   most cant .

To them this all inclusive interfaith and mindset ,   just keeps sounding better and better as  a means for world peace and unity.

Yes,   the upmost of the falling away is occurring and increasing . 

[frienduff thaylorde]

5 hours ago, iamlamad said:

The very theme of the passage by Paul is the catching away of the church, not a removal of Satan. 

And this apostasia has to come BEFORE the midpoint so that the restrainer would be removed to allow the man of sin to enter the temple at the midpoint. 

THE very them OF the passage by paul IS the DAY of the LORD , HIS COMING and our being gathered unto him.  

That Is why IF ya read ,  paul says WHAT must first come to pass, BEFORE THIS OCCURS .   

And now church ya KNOW what withholds that HE , JESUS,   might be revelaed in his time etc.

Read what is plainly said . 

[Unfailing Presence]

6 hours ago, Sister said:

The first one is the falling away.  We all know this is happening now,...this must come first.

So if it is not the saved " falling away "  , by definition it can only be the lost .

These being the only two types of people on earth . 

Where exactly does a hell doomed  person " fall away " to ? 

As you say this " happening now "   it was happening yesterday ,  it was happening 2000 years ago , and it will happen tomorrow .

To say the lost must first be lost makes no sense .

An exercise in redundancy . 

[wingnut-]

4 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

So if it is not the saved " falling away "  , by definition it can only be the lost .

 

Matthew 13:18 “Hear then the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is what was sown along the path. 20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.  22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. 23 As for what was sown on good soil, this is the one who hears the word and understands it. He indeed bears fruit and yields, in one case a hundredfold, in another sixty, and in another thirty.”

[Sister]

43 minutes ago, Unfailing Presence said:

So if it is not the saved " falling away "  , by definition it can only be the lost .

These being the only two types of people on earth . 

Where exactly does a hell doomed  person " fall away " to ? 

As you say this " happening now "   it was happening yesterday ,  it was happening 2000 years ago , and it will happen tomorrow .

To say the lost must first be lost makes no sense .

An exercise in redundancy . 

After Christ's departure, ...the churches were set up by the apostles. With this authority, they laid the foundation of the gospel of Christ as long as time could permit.  They could not stay, as their mission was to go out to the gentiles, so they appointed ministers to tend to the flock.  They sent letters, and kept feeding the flock, checking in on them every now and then, and sending other brethren to them.  The church has been given the gospel, and in that gospel are all the instructions given by Christ.  All the letters were passed on to all the churches so that not one church was without.

As time went by, when John, the youngest apostle who was old now and also the last apostle, wrote the last letter to all the churches, ....the church had already allowed the wolves in.  These wolves in sheep's clothing starting twisting the very foundations first given.  In Johns letter to the seven churches, God harshly warns them about what has happened, and to repent.  Since then, many more false apostles have infiltrated the true gospel of Christ, and have mingled in nicely with the flock.  The duty of the flock is to check out all the instructions that Christ gave, and be not led away to fables and doctrines of men.  This has not stopped, but continues until even today.  When those who are hungry for truth go to their local church, they are expecting to be fed truth.  Because they trust their pastors so much, they don't bother to check things out themselves, but become lazy.  Their duty is to test all things whether it is from God or not.  Not all these pastors are appointed by God, for they have come in through the back door, and not through the true Shepherd who is the Word of God.

If one is sincere in his walk, he will want to know all things written in the scriptures.  If he is lazy, he will depend on someone else to give him doctrine.

Of all the people I have come accross, not associated with the church scene, I noticed they all received the same doctrine.  Some know more than others, and some of us may get things wrong at times, but if the spirit is true and willing, with a repentant heart, the Holy Spirit will teach direct from the scriptures.  The holy spirit will guide, correct, and keep feeding as long as we are eating this bread that comes from heaven.  Christ made this promise and gave us all the warnings.  The only way to check is against the scriptures. 

All those wolves, who infiltrated the churches back then and carried on today, will have the flock taken off them.  The flock will be scattered, and if their foundation was weak...built with lies upon lies, they will soon discover that their very own pastor and church deceived them.  They have only themselves to blame so, after the let-down, they are going to need some more fuel to carry on until the end.  The true doctrine, they did not receive, has to be corrected, so they are going to need some faith now, and go with what little they know.

I wouldn't call the flock who were deceived "doomed', but they definately don't have an advantage.  Christ is so merciful that he will give them a last chance to prove their faith, and this is why the big test is coming, to make things right and purify their robes.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Sister

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

THE very them OF the passage by paul IS the DAY of the LORD , HIS COMING and our being gathered unto him.  

That Is why IF ya read ,  paul says WHAT must first come to pass, BEFORE THIS OCCURS .   

And now church ya KNOW what withholds that HE , JESUS,   might be revelaed in his time etc.

Read what is plainly said . 

Please, allow me to assist you here. You need to read more closely:

2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

Please tell us, do you read "day of the Lord" here? I don't. I read His "coming" and "our gathering," which matches 1 Thes. 4. He comes, the dead in Christ rise, then those alive in in Christ rise, and TOGETHER we are caught up to Him in the clouds.  This is the THEME of this passage: coming and gathering. 

What comes first - and there is only one thing that comes first - is THE apostasia or departing. Then, AFTER the departing, which will be the one restraining taken out of the way, THEN (and only then) will the man of sin be revealed. "and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" Please tell us, how do you get Jesus out of this phrase?  It is the man of sin that will be revealed AFTER the departing of the church. Try dumping all preconceptions and then  reading it slowing over and over and over. 

Your preconceived theory is showing through: that The Day of the Lord is another way of saying "rapture." You are mistaken. Go back to the Old Testament and read ever scripture about the Day of the Lord. 

Edited February 20, 2018 by iamlamad