Catholic Stigmata and Miracles

[Eternal Call]

Hello All, 

Being from a Catholic background, I used to believe in a lot of things I see in the Catholic church or "saints". 

I have been a long way since that time and have got rid of all the pagan rituals of that church. However, I still struggle with some issues:

1- The Stigmata: I am sure somebody here knows about Saint Francis of Assisi or Padre Pio of Pieterlcina. I am interested to know your take on this phenomenon. I don't see anything in the Holy Bible talking about this. However I am trying to make sense of it. I mean many people believe Francis of Assisi to be a true follower of Christ, yet there is this phenomenon in his life. How come this phenomenon is only happening in the Catholic Church? 

I know some would say it is all fake, but it seems unlikely to me looking at these persons. 

2- Miracles by dead Catholic "Saints": the other issue is miracles done by Catholic "saints". We see a lot of these saints' bodies still oozing blood and well preserved. There are a lot of stories about serious sicknesses and diseases being healed by visits to their tombs, or by appearances. Seems weird to me. There is saint called Saint Charbel from Lebanon that is becoming very popular for healing people from all over the world. He appears to them in their sleep and performs operations and such things. 

Now if these miracles happen, do you think that the devil can be responsible for healing people? 

 

Let me know what you think, it is time I move on from this.

God bless

[simplejeff]

20 minutes ago, Eternal Call said:

I am trying to make sense of it.

It is all fake,  not only a little bit fake,  but humongously destructively devastatingly fraud and deception.  Demonic in fact.

Don't look at those they lift up,  for that is sinful.   They are completely and utterly not to be trusted.   Period.

[Eternal Call]

2 hours ago, simplejeff said:

It is all fake,  not only a little bit fake,  but humongously destructively devastatingly fraud and deception.  Demonic in fact.

Don't look at those they lift up,  for that is sinful.   They are completely and utterly not to be trusted.   Period.

I always loved to see it that way. But I must admit I struggle with it. 

The thing is even very good bible teachers like David Pawson and others think of Francis as genuine believer. Are we saying that all these people like Pio and Francis are all lost and in hell? This is where I struggle. 

Of course the doctrines of penance, Eucharist, Marian worship, intercession of the saints are all unbiblical. 

[simplejeff]

1 minute ago, Eternal Call said:

I always loved to see it that way. But I must admit I struggle with it. 

Relax.  It is fully in YHVH'S hands.   Trust YHVH,  not anyone at all in the devil's church.  (oh, some may be saved, no worries there..... YHVH'S concern, not ours)

Trust YHVH that YHVH knows,  and never point anyone towards destruction of the false gospel.

[Eternal Call]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

Relax.  It is fully in YHVH'S hands.   Trust YHVH,  not anyone at all in the devil's church.  (oh, some may be saved, no worries there..... YHVH'S concern, not ours)

Trust YHVH that YHVH knows,  and never point anyone towards destruction of the false gospel.

I am relaxed but thank you. I know that God is in control, I am just trying to see the source of these things. It is always good to ask questions and see what others think. That was my point.

I don't know what you mean by pointing someone towards destruction of the false gospel. I am just asking a question. 

God bless you

[simplejeff]

8 minutes ago, Eternal Call said:

David Pawson

^^^^^^^  looks like his prophecy may be true.  Can't "count on it", but it is possible and yes,  it is through suffering in various countries that the GOSPEL has grown stronger,  while in prosperity the GOSPEL is virtually unknown.  (only had a quick look) here is part of one Pawson prophecy :

"The greatest obstacle to the Kingdom of God in New Zealand is faith in human government. That confidence will have to be shaken before the Kingdom of God can come. The next crisis will advance the cause of the Kingdom by smashing power of human government.

In America, the next crisis will lead to a huge escalation of state power. Most Americans believe that their government rescued the world economy by taking quick action, so they will expect the President and the Fed to so the same again. American political leaders will take unprecedented political powers as they attempt to hold back an even worse economic crisis.

In New Zealand and a few other places at the edges of the earth, the outcome will be different. The powers of evil will overplay their hand and destroy one of their greatest tools: political power. The crisis will leave political leaders and powerbrokers crushed and confused. They will flee from their positions and power, and human government will collapse under the stress.

David Pawson's word will eventually be fulfilled in this land. God will use the next economic crisis to bring about a change of government. The human political order will be swept away and New Zealand will come back under the government of God to shine as a bright light to the nations."

2 minutes ago, Eternal Call said:

I don't know what you mean by pointing someone towards destruction of the false gospel. I am just asking a question. 

If anyone lifts up things ,  or rather the things that men life up as 'great',  YHVH says are horrible (worse actually).   Then if anyone shows faith in anything from the false church,  it may lead more people to place some of their faith or confidence in that which is totally corrupt and opposed to Truth.   The results are very great loss of souls,  trusting what is opposed to Jesus (as you posted you do recognize,  but many here and in the world do not - billions are deceived) ..

[Eternal Call]

1 minute ago, simplejeff said:

^^^^^^^  looks like his prophecy may be true.  Can't "count on it", but it is possible and yes,  it is through suffering in various countries that the GOSPEL has grown stronger,  while in prosperity the GOSPEL is virtually unknown.  (only had a quick look) here is part of one Pawson prophecy :

"The greatest obstacle to the Kingdom of God in New Zealand is faith in human government. That confidence will have to be shaken before the Kingdom of God can come. The next crisis will advance the cause of the Kingdom by smashing power of human government.

In America, the next crisis will lead to a huge escalation of state power. Most Americans believe that their government rescued the world economy by taking quick action, so they will expect the President and the Fed to so the same again. American political leaders will take unprecedented political powers as they attempt to hold back an even worse economic crisis.

In New Zealand and a few other places at the edges of the earth, the outcome will be different. The powers of evil will overplay their hand and destroy one of their greatest tools: political power. The crisis will leave political leaders and powerbrokers crushed and confused. They will flee from their positions and power, and human government will collapse under the stress.

David Pawson's word will eventually be fulfilled in this land. God will use the next economic crisis to bring about a change of government. The human political order will be swept away and New Zealand will come back under the government of God to shine as a bright light to the nations."

3

Interesting thank you for this. He is one of my favorite bible teachers with Derek Prince. I didn't know about this.

Quote

If anyone lifts up things ,  or rather the things that men life up as 'great',  YHVH says are horrible (worse actually).   Then if anyone shows faith in anything from the false church,  it may lead more people to place some of their faith or confidence in that which is totally corrupt and opposed to Truth.   The results are very great loss of souls,  trusting what is opposed to Jesus (as you posted you do recognize,  but many here and in the world do not - billions are deceived) ..

4

I agree with you there. However asking questions is the way to learn from people who know more or have more experience. If everyone who asks a question about wrong beliefs, we are going to say that they are lifting up false gospels, we would have a huge problem in evangelism. I am very patient with other believers who are seeking truth and I try to bring them slowly out of their wrong doctrines. 

Also I believe that if people would get lost because of this kind of question, then their faith was not strong to begin with and they have a long way to go. Life is full of questions and struggles, we have to overcome in the middle of these things in the name of Jesus. If someone will be lost because of that, they were never really found to begin. 

Anyway just my take on it.

God bless you!

 

 

[Dennis1209]

15 minutes ago, Eternal Call said:

I always loved to see it that way. But I must admit I struggle with it. 

The thing is even very good bible teachers like David Pawson and others think of Francis as genuine believer. Are we saying that all these people like Pio and Francis are all lost and in hell? This is where I struggle. 

Of course the doctrines of penance, Eucharist, Marian worship, intercession of the saints are all unbiblical. 

1Pe 5:8 ¶ Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
Satan is the father of lies and does everything he can to deceive the world. Don't believe those Mary aberrations, weeping statues or anything not ordained by the Lord. The Bible is what we have, the true word of God in this age of Grace. All these other apparent miracles are a ploy and deception to distract us from the word of God. Don't be taken in on the deceptions of Satan. Stay grounded only in the word of God, the only true source for truth, the Bible.  

[Eternal Call]

Just now, Dennis1209 said:

Don't believe those Mary aberrations, weeping statues or anything not ordained by the Lord. The Bible is what we have, the true word of God in this age of Grace. All these other apparent miracles are a ploy and deception to distract us from the word of God. Don't be taken in on the deceptions of Satan. Stay grounded only in the word of God, the only true source for truth, the Bible.  

Of course

thank you Dennis and nice to meet you.

 

[simplejeff]

3 minutes ago, Eternal Call said:

However asking questions is the way to learn from people who know more or have more experience. If everyone who asks a question about wrong beliefs, we are going to say that they are lifting up false gospels, we would have a huge problem in evangelism.

We do have huge problems with evangelism, most often because of things (teachings, practices, idols, doctrines, dogmas, traditions)  that came/come out of babylon, things that readers here may still hold to without knowing how wrong and dangerous it be.   

Sometimes the answers to the questions must include apropriate warnings because of that , and as written it is a safeguard to remind one another - no problem to keep repeating the warnings as well as the lessons even after we all know them,  I think Scripture says "to help prevent one another (ekklesia born again ones) from becoming deceived by sin again"  ....