Does God love Satan and his children?

[Mike 2]

22 hours ago, Ogner said:

Which kinds of enemies we must demonstrate love? Do you know whom Jesus is talking about?

Do you think Jesus could taught us how to love and forgive criminals, murderer, burglar, rapist... and other villains ?  

All right, how about this one?

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Matthew 5:22 KJV

In this verse Jesus is saying  IN DANGER OF,  they are on a slippery slope that can lead to these bad things.

An example would be if I was angry with someone and unwilling to love and forgive. I would be in danger of my unforgiveness leading me to do something sinful. Revenge can be a terrible thing.

[Mike 2]

2 hours ago, Ogner said:

You attention to situations in which Jesus and Stephen were killed by children of satan. 

What do you expect me to do about it now? Should I assume that's reason to love those who shows no remorse for their crime and happy when can hurt me? 

How do you feel when you see innocent people get killed? You feel  that you love murderers?

When innocent people get killed it's not reason to love their murderers. It's a question of who you have compassion for. 

Do you think that you must love murderers? Do you think Jesus could taught us how to love murderers? 

Jesus and Stephan did their utmost  to prove otherwise

.

I think we may have different understandings of the word love. 

The most common biblical example of "love" that I am referring to, as it pertains to God is AGAPE love. 

You may be considering one of the other definitions below

Agape , other centered love will consider that the angry, murderer is missing out on love and joy and therefore anger and hatred steps in. Other centered love sees the pain that is caused by that anger and hatred and knows that it comes from rejection and a lack of love, perceived or real, somewhere in that persons life.

Agape love is what is predominate in 1 Cor. 13

8 Different Types of Love
“Eros” or Erotic Love.
“Philia” or Affectionate Love.
“Storge” or Familiar Love.
“Ludus” or Playful Love.
“Mania” or Obsessive Love.
“Pragma” or Enduring Love.
“Philautia” or Self Love.
“Agape” or Selfless Love.

[Ogner]

10 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

.

I think we may have different understandings of the word love. 

The most common biblical example of "love" that I am referring to, as it pertains to God is AGAPE love. 

You may be considering one of the other definitions below

Agape , other centered love will consider that the angry, murderer is missing out on love and joy and therefore anger and hatred steps in. Other centered love sees the pain that is caused by that anger and hatred and knows that it comes from rejection and a lack of love, perceived or real, somewhere in that persons life.

Agape love is what is predominate in 1 Cor. 13

8 Different Types of Love
“Eros” or Erotic Love.
“Philia” or Affectionate Love.
“Storge” or Familiar Love.
“Ludus” or Playful Love.
“Mania” or Obsessive Love.
“Pragma” or Enduring Love.
“Philautia” or Self Love.
“Agape” or Selfless Love.

Do you think Jesus could taught us how to Selfless Love murderers?

Mike, what are you getting at?

[Ogner]

11 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

In this verse Jesus is saying  IN DANGER OF,  they are on a slippery slope that can lead to these bad things.

An example would be if I was angry with someone and unwilling to love and forgive. I would be in danger of my unforgiveness leading me to do something sinful. Revenge can be a terrible thing.

The're taking the wrong side, because it is not.

[Mike 2]

5 hours ago, Ogner said:

  16 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

In this verse Jesus is saying  IN DANGER OF,  they are on a slippery slope that can lead to these bad things.

An example would be if I was angry with someone and unwilling to love and forgive. I would be in danger of my unforgiveness leading me to do something sinful. Revenge can be a terrible thing.

5 hours ago, Ogner said:

The're taking the wrong side, because it is not.

 

It's true for either side

[Mike 2]

6 hours ago, Ogner said:

Do you think Jesus could taught us how to Selfless Love murderers?

Mike, what are you getting at?

I have worked in prison ministry and I have practiced this many times . I need to point out that murderers and criminals etc are seen as some of the extreme cases but I have to say, I have some relatives that I have to work harder at with selfless love.

It requires that we look past what they did and at the fact that they are hurting damaged souls that need Gods unbounding love and we are His ambassadors. It's not any easy task we are called to and again,I'm not suffering through this at this time so it's much easier to say now than when I am. I'm also not going through what you must be going through now particularly with the unrest in your part of the world.

However, Peter was and this is what he had to say.

 
1Pe 2:19  For it is a fine thing if, when moved by your conscience to please God, you suffer patiently when wronged. 
1Pe 2:20  What good does it do if, when you sin, you patiently receive punishment for it? But if you suffer for doing good and receive it patiently, you have God's approval. 
1Pe 2:21  This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because: The Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in his steps. 
1Pe 2:22  "He never sinned, and he never told a lie." 
1Pe 2:23  When he was insulted, he did not retaliate. When he suffered, he did not threaten. It was his habit to commit the matter to the one who judges fairly. 

This whole chapter in 1 Peter is worth reading and meditating on.

[Ogner]

8 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

 

It's true for either side

If you look at the whole  chapter Matthew 5 you'll see that's not about we must forgive and love criminals.

In Matthew 5:20 Jesus say, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not murder"
In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the requirements on gift
In Matthew 5:27,28 and 31,32 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not commit adultery.’
In Matthew 5:33-37 Jesus tightens the requirements on oath.

Attention! Follow the logic.
In this verses 38-41 Jesus tightens the principle ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth."
Now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt.".

For example: Exodus 21:18,19, “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.
And
Exodus 21:22,23, “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation proportional to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.

But now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation disproportionate (in favour of a plaintiff) to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.

 

 

 

[Ogner]

8 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

I have worked in prison ministry and I have practiced this many times . I need to point out that murderers and criminals etc are seen as some of the extreme cases but I have to say, I have some relatives that I have to work harder at with selfless love.

It requires that we look past what they did and at the fact that they are hurting damaged souls that need Gods unbounding love and we are His ambassadors. It's not any easy task we are called to and again,I'm not suffering through this at this time so it's much easier to say now than when I am. I'm also not going through what you must be going through now particularly with the unrest in your part of the world.

However, Peter was and this is what he had to say.

 
1Pe 2:19  For it is a fine thing if, when moved by your conscience to please God, you suffer patiently when wronged. 
1Pe 2:20  What good does it do if, when you sin, you patiently receive punishment for it? But if you suffer for doing good and receive it patiently, you have God's approval. 
1Pe 2:21  This is, in fact, what you were called to do, because: The Messiah also suffered for you and left an example for you to follow in his steps. 
1Pe 2:22  "He never sinned, and he never told a lie." 
1Pe 2:23  When he was insulted, he did not retaliate. When he suffered, he did not threaten. It was his habit to commit the matter to the one who judges fairly. 

This whole chapter in 1 Peter is worth reading and meditating on.

To be victim and edure is not to know God. 

Jesus never taught this.

In Matthew 5:21,22 Jesus said: "who is angry with a brother will be subjected to judgment. And whoever insults a brother will be brought before the council, and whoever says ‘Fool’ will be sent to fiery hell.".

"will be sent to fiery hell." this means put him to death.

God, through the prophet Jeremiah and David stated: 

Jeremiah 22:3 "Thus says the Lord: Do justice and righteousness, and deliver from the hand of the oppressor him who has been robbed. And do no wrong or violence to the alien, the fatherless, and the widow, nor shed innocent blood in this place.".

Jeremiah 22:26 "He judged the cause of the poor and needy; then it was well. Is not this to know me? says the Lord.".

Psalm 82:3,4 "Judge the poor and fatherless: Do justice to the afflicted and destitute. Rescue the poor and needy: Deliver them out of the hand of the wicked.".

And  Matthew 7:1,2 Jesus say: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

If you choose not to judge righteous judgment others you will be judged with the same measure you use.

Because we must John: 7:24: "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment." 

More generally Jesus say, "Judge not according to appearance, but judge righteous judgment. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.  If you do not judge others, your heavenly Father will not be judge between you and your abuser. When people take a neutral stand between you and your abuser, they are in effect abandoning you. If you do not judge others, and you will not be judged. And that's bad. "

Jesus say, better  justice, when it is done than......... to be wronged.

[Mike 2]

2 hours ago, Ogner said:

If you look at the whole  chapter Matthew 5 you'll see that's not about we must forgive and love criminals.

In Matthew 5:20 Jesus say, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not murder"
In Matthew 5:21,22 Juses tightens the requirements on gift
In Matthew 5:27,28 and 31,32 Juses tightens the commandment "‘You shall not commit adultery.’
In Matthew 5:33-37 Jesus tightens the requirements on oath.

Attention! Follow the logic.
In this verses 38-41 Jesus tightens the principle ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth."
Now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt.".

For example: Exodus 21:18,19, “If people quarrel and one person hits another with a stone or with their fist[d] and the victim does not die but is confined to bed, the one who struck the blow will not be held liable if the other can get up and walk around outside with a staff; however, the guilty party must pay the injured person for any loss of time and see that the victim is completely healed.
And
Exodus 21:22,23, “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life,

‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation proportional to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.

But now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt." this principles call for the victim's right to reparation encompassed adequate, effective and prompt reparation disproportionate (in favour of a plaintiff) to the gravity of the violation and the harm suffered.

 

 

 

Mat 5:38  "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 
Mat 5:39  But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. 

I think you are reading into this and trying to apply your own theology

Jesus in the "Sermon on the Mount" is addressing what so many of us are guilty of and that is living to the letter of the law. He is basically saying "if you are just living by the letter of the law then you are missing the point!" Jesus is telling us that we should be living by the spirit of the law.

I don't know where you are getting the idea of "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt." But what Jesus is saying here is to do just the thing you are struggling with not wanting to do, that is to show love in spite of being mistreated. If you get slapped...you should turn the other cheek resist the evil doer , that is, resist falling into the same sin when you react. Instead of punching him in the face or taking out his eye....or his life....turn the other cheek

Really what Jesus is driving home is that there is more to the written law than what we read just on the surface. The people he was talking to in this Matthew passage were living to the letter of the law. We see the evidence of this when we realize that the 600 and something original God given laws have increased to over 30,000 man made laws. It hit over 30,000 because people were looking at ways to get around the literal meaning of the law and in so doing missed the spirit of the law. In attempts to literally instill the spirit of the law more laws were made in order to fill "loop holes".

A good example of this is what you have quoted about the Pharisees:

In Matthew 5:20 Jesus say, "For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven." The Pharisees were real good at living to the letter of the law and because of it were considered to be righteous by everyone, but Jesus is saying that the people need to be more righteous than that and then he goes on to describe what he means in the verses about turning the other cheek, and the spirit of the law ....guarantee you the Pharisees never did that!

One of the things that really stood out about the Law when it was given to the Israelite's in the Exodus was that at that time, for instance, if you took someones eye out or hurt one of their animals, they would kill you and that was that. In that world the Law was revolutionary and counter cultural. To say an eye for an eye was to offer a restriction from...a death for an eye.

In following the law God said he would bless the Israelite's. Other nations would notice those blessings, would notice that they followed "different" laws and would ask questions why. That was a perfect opportunity to glorify God. And that's what God's plan was...to reveal himself through the nation of Israel because they were ......different.

God now reveals himself through us because we are.....different. We don't take an eye for an eye.

 

[Ogner]

7 hours ago, Mike 2 said:

Mat 5:38  "You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 
Mat 5:39  But I tell you not to resist an evildoer. On the contrary, whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn the other to him as well. 

I think you are reading into this and trying to apply your own theology

...I don't know where you are getting the idea of "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth and coat for shirt...

 

In Matthew 5:39 Jesus say about litigation. 1) It is a particularly arbitrary form of individual justice, whereby the men of a family, clan, group or village act as judge, jury and executioner. 2) If you are a victim of a crime you must go to court. 3) And if plaintiff wants to sue you and to take your tunic, give him your coat also.

Requires tunic - plaintiff

Give him coat must - defendant

Therefore, Jesus says: Matthew 5:25,26.

In Matthew 5:39,40 Jesus say about litigation.

39 " But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also.”

It is a particularly arbitrary form of individual justice, whereby the men of a family, clan, group or village act as judge, jury and executioner. If you are a victim of a crime you must go to court

40 "And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well."

If plaintiff wants to sue defendant and to take his shirt, defendant must give him coat also.

Jesus changes the commandment

38 "You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth."

But now "Two eyes for eye, and two teeth for tooth.".