Who and What was Jesus

[viguy007]

I am seeking the truth about God and Jesus:

God is spirit. “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” (John 4:24) The mind is not material, therefore it also is spirit. Could not the mind of God merge with Jesus at his baptism? "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods? "(John 10:34) and therefore could that not happened to many people who are considered divinely inspired; even today?

Jesus never said “I am God” or "I am the creator of the universe". He did say "my Father and your Father, and my God and your God." (John20:17) “And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good save one, God.” (Mark 10:18) Does this not indicate he was not God the creator of the universe, but God spoke to him and was in his mind. “For I spake not from myself; but the Father that sent me, he hath given me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.” (John 12:49)

The "Jews" made many false accusations about Jesus “The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” (John 10:33) Jesus said they were wrong when they accused him of saying he was God. As stated in John 10;36: "say ye of him, whom the Father sanctified (made holy) and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" God sanctifies any holy person. Jesus did not say he was God, he said he was the son of God.

Jesus also said we were all children of God. It seems that, to Jesus, there was nothing extraordinary about being a son of God, for He is our Father. “for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye, Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.” (Matthew 6:8-9) “Even so let your light shine before men; that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.”(Matthew 5:16) “Even so it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.” (Matthew 18:14) “Jesus saith to her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended unto the Father: but go unto my brethren, and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” (John 20:17)

“But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be sons of the Most High: for he is kind toward the unthankful and evil. Be ye merciful, even as your Father is merciful.” (Luke 6:35-36) “that ye may be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.” (Matthew 5:45)

Jesus never said “I am God”, nor did he ever hint that we should worship him. The favorite self-designation of Jesus in the Gospels is “the son of man” which is used more then eighty times, Jesus calls himself “the son of God” only five times in the Gospels. Jesus was always subservient to his Father, “but that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do.” (John 14:31) Jesus never held himself as being equal to the Father of the universe. He said he acted at the behest of his Father, and not by his own will. “I can of myself do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is righteous; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” (John 5:30) Jesus was a man, who knew, taught, and did the will of his Father, God. “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10) “Jesus therefore said, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself, but as the Father taught me, I speak these things. And he that sent me is with me; he hath not left me alone; for I do always the things that are pleasing to him.”(John 8:28-29) Jesus only said he was sent by God, to teach and do the will of God, but he never said he was God, the Father and creator of the universe, or he was equal to God, or he should be worshiped as God.

However, this is not to say Jesus was an ordinary man. When Jesus was defending himself "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?" (John 10:34). Jesus was exhibiting a knowledge it was impossible to have at that time. A knowledge that could only be communicated to him by the mind which is God; for it is the way modern science believe the material universe was created.

Modern day quantum theory says is that the fundamental particles which make up the material universe are empty of inherent existence and exist in an undefined state of potentialities. They have no inherent existence within themselves, and do not become 'real' until a mind interacts with them and gives them meaning. Moreover, the observer's mind in some way determines the outcome of the observations. Whenever and wherever there is no mind there is no meaning and no reality. (Using a simple metaphor: a falling tree makes no noise until an ear attached to a brain converts the disturbance in the air {air fluctuations know as sound waves} into a noise.) The ultimate manifestation is when quantum theory is applied to the entire universe.

According to some cosmologists, the universe began as a quantum fluctuation in the limitless Void (Hartle-Hawking hypothesis). Before the beginning of time, the universe was a huge quantum superposition of all possible states, all possible states of matter, physical constants, properties and laws were simultaneously present. So it remained until the first primordial mind (God) observed it (pictured it), causing it to collapse into one actuality. In the absence of an observer, the universe would have remained as a 'multiverse' - a quantum superposition of all possible states. Containing all possibilities meant it was chaotic, yet it had no form, it was the chaos of the Void. “without form, and void” (Genesis 1:2). The first act of willful observation by this mind thereby caused the entire superposed multiverse to collapse immediately into one of its numerous alternatives. Mind is spirit, God is spirit. Perhaps the "Big Bang" of cosmology, when all mater in our material Universe was created, was the moment when God, who is of Spirit and not material, observed the chaos of the Void and said "Let there be light."

It must be realized that Quantum Theory deals with the local, non-Cosmic level, the level at which humans function. Therefore, humans share this ability with God on the local level. In other words, God effects all things (the universe), man effects the things he perceives. To many religious people, to say this, sounds like blasphemy, yet it is also found in scripture. “And God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him” (Genesis 1:27) “I said, Ye are gods, And all of you sons of the Most High.” (Psalms 82:6) “The Jews answered him, For a good work we stone thee not, but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, ye are gods?” (John 10:33-34)

I believe the mind which is God, entered into Jesus at his baptism. It merged with the mind of Jesus. Jesus in his mind became one with God. "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) This belief is similar to one held by some early "followers of Jesus" communities which believed God in some miraculous way adopted the man Jesus. The view was that Jesus was born only as a man, but became God's son by adoption when he was baptized in the Jordan River. "After the people were baptized, Jesus also came and was baptized by John; and as he came up from the water, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Holy Ghost in the likeness of a dove that descended and entered into him: and a voice from heaven saying: Thou art my beloved Son, in thee I am well pleased: and again: This day have I begotten thee. And straightway there shone about the place a great light." (non-canonical Gospel of the Ebionites) Jesus comes to the Jordan River and is there baptized, and after the baptism occurs the heavens open and God pronounces that Jesus is his son. Only after this moment did Jesus' ministry begin. Jesus was not God when he was born as a man. God was his Father (as He is the Father of all of us) but upon his adoption, Jesus became God the Son. He shared the Mind of God, the mind and thought that had always existed, but he was not God creator of the universe. I believe that Jesus went to receive John's baptism "John came, who baptized in the wilderness and preached the baptism of repentance unto remission of sins." (Mark 1:4) because he was an ordinary man who had sinned before. I also believe there is evidence of this in the Bible.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Welcome!

By the way, you posted this in the welcome area, and welcoming and introductions, is what this area is for, so I am moving this to Theology.

[wingnut-]

6 minutes ago, viguy007 said:

I am seeking the truth about God and Jesus:

 

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”

 

8 minutes ago, viguy007 said:

Jesus never said “I am God” or "I am the creator of the universe"

 

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through Him and for Him.

 

10 minutes ago, viguy007 said:

Jesus never said “I am God”, nor did he ever hint that we should worship him.

 

Matthew 28:9  And behold, Jesus met them and said, “Greetings!” And they came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.

 

13 minutes ago, viguy007 said:

Jesus never said “I am God”

 

John 8:58  Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."

 

Exodus 3:14  God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”

 

18 minutes ago, viguy007 said:

Jesus was not God when he was born as a man.

 

Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born,
    to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
    and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.