It is wrong collect Tithes

[Mike Mclees]

What I see is we give to the needy and destitute. The needy and the destitute are not asked to give to us who have not a need. 

[Alex2165]

This I very much expected to see in the majority of answers, and as usual many places of the Bible have been taken out of their context in the favor to collect tithes.

And of course some theological nonsense also has been presented here to prove that tithes collected in the church is permissible.

I presented practically all verses of the Old Testament concerning tithes, and if you guys read it or not, none of these verses relate to money, but all of them strictly specified tithes as produce of the land and subsequently their purpose.

In general overview, 10% of the field produce collected from the people every third year. It had been stored in the storage facilities. From the storage facilities 10% given to Levites and they stored them in their own storages. From their storages Levites took another 10% for offering to the Lord, and the rest they have for their own consumption and for support of the poor.

Beside this, Levites also had their own towns in each tribe of Israel and they also have their own fields from which they feed themselves, their families, and profit from. These all very well described in the Bible and the verses I presented, but ignorant person always will be ignorant, because truth sometimes hurts.

But I care less who has been hurt, the point is that many traditions of the church straight forward ungodly and dishonest, and only can be revealed by pointing the deeds of the church to the Holy Scripture in order to reveal that the practices of the church do not match the practices indicated in the Bible.

I am not against to support the church, that is to do some maintenance, paying utility bills, or to organize some event, but not to keep on the payroll pastors, musicians, office staff, and all others who profit from the church donations, and not to collect tithes and shamelessly passing the plate through the rows.

If church wants to imitate the Tabernacle service or the Temple in this respect, the church should put a special box for donations, just like it has been done for the Temple when it was in need for repairs (2Kings 12.1-15).

There is no even a clue in the Old and the New Testament that would suggest or understood tithes or any other donation as money, and even more, that someone has to be paid for doing any work on behalf of GOD.

Just like human beings twisted and bended their own morality and their own conscience in order to profit unjustly, and so they also bended and twisted the Word of GOD in order to do the same, to profit and to make business out of religion.

[Sower]

1 hour ago, Alex2165 said:

This I very much expected to see in the majority of answers, and as usual many places of the Bible have been taken out of their context in the favor to collect tithes.

And of course some theological nonsense also has been presented here to prove that tithes collected in the church is permissible.

I presented practically all verses of the Old Testament concerning tithes, and if you guys read it or not, none of these verses relate to money, but all of them strictly specified tithes as produce of the land and subsequently their purpose.

In general overview, 10% of the field produce collected from the people every third year. It had been stored in the storage facilities. From the storage facilities 10% given to Levites and they stored them in their own storages. From their storages Levites took another 10% for offering to the Lord, and the rest they have for their own consumption and for support of the poor.

Beside this, Levites also had their own towns in each tribe of Israel and they also have their own fields from which they feed themselves, their families, and profit from. These all very well described in the Bible and the verses I presented, but ignorant person always will be ignorant, because truth sometimes hurts.

But I care less who has been hurt, the point is that many traditions of the church straight forward ungodly and dishonest, and only can be revealed by pointing the deeds of the church to the Holy Scripture in order to reveal that the practices of the church do not match the practices indicated in the Bible.

I am not against to support the church, that is to do some maintenance, paying utility bills, or to organize some event, but not to keep on the payroll pastors, musicians, office staff, and all others who profit from the church donations, and not to collect tithes and shamelessly passing the plate through the rows.

If church wants to imitate the Tabernacle service or the Temple in this respect, the church should put a special box for donations, just like it has been done for the Temple when it was in need for repairs (2Kings 12.1-15).

There is no even a clue in the Old and the New Testament that would suggest or understood tithes or any other donation as money, and even more, that someone has to be paid for doing any work on behalf of GOD.

Just like human beings twisted and bended their own morality and their own conscience in order to profit unjustly, and so they also bended and twisted the Word of GOD in order to do the same, to profit and to make business out of religion.

Just curious. Do you support your pastor, or is he a tent maker type. Do you go (fellowship) to a group of believers, or a church? Your house or a friends. Who pays the bills? Do you believe all church pastors are crooks or most of them? And, where do you get all your facts? Just curious. God bless.

[Mike Mclees]

19 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

Just curious. Do you support your pastor, or is he a tent maker type. Do you go (fellowship) to a group of believers, or a church? Your house or a friends. Who pays the bills? Do you believe all church pastors are crooks or most of them? And, where do you get all your facts? Just curious. God bless.

I see no evil in supporting your pastor but passing the plate. Why do we not see this one thing has always bothered me. How many poor, destitute and homeless sit in your pews? Ask why they are not there. Could it be they are intimidated by our fine standards of giving when the plate is past. Is it  because they don't ware fine clothes and perfume, drive upscale cars. Have we out classed God's own that go to the food line everyday because they have nothing to give.

[Neighbor]

There is no we!  There is you, there is I, and each may give or pledge or tithe; or each may withhold. God will bless or condemn each as He sees fit., 

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In general: Of course a rabbi ( teacher) is worth his wage. A good teacher, a good elder is worth a double portion. If I grow in spiritual awareness that will bless me eternally  should I not see the benefit to me in my sharing  or giving or paying the provider of that eternal benefit monetarily so that the teaching may continue?

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Rhetorical question for my own self examination: What of online ministry organizations like Christian message boards?

Once one finds  a one or more of them to be of benefit personally, how long before one starts to pay  for the benefit? Is one led to do so as a gift, or as a tithe; or does one never feel such a call and instead demands the provider work harder somewhere  else on their own to pay the bills of the ministry?

[ BTW- not asking who does or doesn't contribute to any ministry or service of any kind. I  am just stating if there is benefit why will not one  especially me want to and almost demand of myself to be allowed to pay some reward for the benefit, as a thanks or as satisfaction for the debt of such a good personal gain?]

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At a personal level: 

I find I won't want to face God and have Him throw in any addition questions like; 

Hey by the way, how come you were so cheap, you measured out everything, and seems you did so sparingly?

Had you no confidence,  no trust in my sovereignty, my perfect provision for you, had you no desire to share at all, were you never a joyful giver of anything that benefited another?

Did you not even hear of the word eleemosynary, never mind not ever learn how to spell it?

 Might He say something like; See the other Pikers over there? Go wait in that line, ask for a cup of cool water over there while you wait around. We will talk  again, about this giving and tithing and sharing and my sovereignty some more in awhile. Hope you don't get too thirsty waiting around with those other Pikers over there.

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 I am having a little exaggerated fun here, but in truth, I really do hope I am not so tight fisted as to shame myself before my God. 

[Neighbor]

17 minutes ago, Mike Mclees said:

I see no evil in supporting your pastor but passing the plate. Why do we not see this one thing has always bothered me. How many poor, destitute and homeless sit in your pews? Ask why they are not there. Could it be they are intimidated by our fine standards of giving when the plate is past. Is it  because they don't ware fine clothes and perfume, drive upscale cars. Have we out classed God's own that go to the food line everyday because they have nothing to give.

Ah not so. Individuals come on their bicycles with the bags of personal belongings, they sit in the same pews and seats as everyone might also do, they listen, they pray, they share, they fellowship,  they  get some food on occasion, they even discuss Biblical principles.

 I have no idea what they may or may not give. It is not any of my business to observe what another servant gives back in their own worship to his or her Master.

 

[Neighbor]

Never mind

[Sower]

3 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

I see no evil in supporting your pastor but passing the plate. Why do we not see this one thing has always bothered me. How many poor, destitute and homeless sit in your pews? Ask why they are not there. Could it be they are intimidated by our fine standards of giving when the plate is past. Is it  because they don't ware fine clothes and perfume, drive upscale cars. Have we out classed God's own that go to the food line everyday because they have nothing to give.

The only church I have been a member of now for  thirty seven years, I quote the pastor quite often about my first visit. Prior to when they 'passed the plate', that day, he would pray to God giving thanks for all the many blessings, and ask a blessing and direction for the offering received.  He then from the pulpit would announce to  any visitors in church  that our church did not NEED any money from them,  the members supported the church. I think when I heard this the first time, I  decided, 'I like this church already', as I also like you (back then) try to keep everybody from getting into my wallet. Our church , (One hundred and thirty plus years old) and most all the sister churches in the area are not what you see on TV, as ours is a blue collar church, with some having difficult times, and many love offerings are taken to assist. I have brought indigents and down and out hitch hikers off the street that literately stunk bad enough to cause a real need of fresh air, yet they were received with the same respect and courtesy as anyone. They are seen as an opportunity, sent by God to us, that we might receive a blessing.  Cool, huh.

"Is it  because they don't wear fine clothes and perfume, drive upscale cars. Have we out classed God's own that go to the food line everyday because they have nothing to give".

We get them frequently, not to attend church,  but so many are con artist looking for money for their car to get to their "out of state home" or some other money need, not a full tank paid for, and not food or clothing or a place to stay in the mission we support. Just money.
I sense you have a distinct aversion of the affluent, and the assumed treatment they may have toward the less fortunate. Our church is mostly pick up trucks and blue jeans and callouses. It is not a good thing to group the churches the way you do, and assume they are all like you perceive.

Finally, "passing the plate" as you call it is viewed by you as a negative, to possibly embarrass or shame someone less fortunate.  In most churches I know, our support is given in envelopes at bible study prior to the service, so when the plate comes around, very few give, so no one should feel out of place not giving. Try viewing your offering of money, or your time and talents, as a blessing offered to you to be part of. I don't think too much any more about how the money is spent, some one else more wise than me is responsible. I am responsible for my actions. Or lack of said.

I have heard of churches that do think it is important to keep their pastor "poor and humble" Not ours.

One last thing. "You can't out give God"  Try it.

[Mike Mclees]

2 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

The only church I have been a member of now for  thirty seven years, I quote the pastor quite often about my first visit. Prior to when they 'passed the plate', that day, he would pray to God giving thanks for all the many blessings, and ask a blessing and direction for the offering received.  He then from the pulpit would announce to  any visitors in church  that our church did not NEED any money from them,  the members supported the church. I think when I heard this the first time, I  decided, 'I like this church already', as I also like you (back then) try to keep everybody from getting into my wallet. Our church , (One hundred and thirty plus years old) and most all the sister churches in the area are not what you see on TV, as ours is a blue collar church, with some having difficult times, and many love offerings are taken to assist. I have brought indigents and down and out hitch hikers off the street that literately stunk bad enough to cause a real need of fresh air, yet they were received with the same respect and courtesy as anyone. They are seen as an opportunity, sent by God to us, that we might receive a blessing.  Cool, huh.

"Is it  because they don't wear fine clothes and perfume, drive upscale cars. Have we out classed God's own that go to the food line everyday because they have nothing to give".

We get them frequently, not to attend church,  but so many are con artist looking for money for their car to get to their "out of state home" or some other money need, not a full tank paid for, and not food or clothing or a place to stay in the mission we support. Just money.
I sense you have a distinct aversion of the affluent, and the assumed treatment they may have toward the less fortunate. Our church is mostly pick up trucks and blue jeans and callouses. It is not a good thing to group the churches the way you do, and assume they are all like you perceive.

Finally, "passing the plate" as you call it is viewed by you as a negative, to possibly embarrass or shame someone less fortunate.  In most churches I know, our support is given in envelopes at bible study prior to the service, so when the plate comes around, very few give, so no one should feel out of place not giving. Try viewing your offering of money, or your time and talents, as a blessing offered to you to be part of. I don't think too much any more about how the money is spent, some one else more wise than me is responsible. I am responsible for my actions. Or lack of said.

I have heard of churches that do think it is important to keep their pastor "poor and humble" Not ours.

One last thing. "You can't out give God"  Try it.

 

 

Revelation 2:8-11 King James Version (KJV)

⁸ And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

⁹ I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

¹⁰ Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

¹¹ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

 

Not all are bad.   God bless

Edited April 17, 2018 by Mike Mclees

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Mike Mclees said:

 

 

Revelation 2:8-11 King James Version (KJV)

⁸ And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

⁹ I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

¹⁰ Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

¹¹ He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

 

Not all are bad.   God bless

I do not understand your choice of scripture. What does this scripture have to do in replying to my post of, supporting a pastor, supporting a church, helping the poor and destitute? In other words, what are you saying, Mike? And may God bless you.