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Quasar93

The Biblical teachings of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Church

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1 hour ago, Quasar93 said:

The "seven" churches recorded in Rev.2 and 3, are one and the same body of Christ, in the various stages of the entire church age.  The ELECT of Mt.24:31 are: Those the angels will gather from the four winds, is Israel.  Those they will gather from one end of heaven to the other, is the church Jesus will rapture seven years before, as recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and in 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 

The church is seen in heaven, symbolically as John, before the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8.  They are see later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in Rev.19:7-8.  Jesus will then return to earth WITH His Church, "...riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, whit and clean. in His armies from heaven," in verse 14.

Hope that helps.

Thanks. Would you possibly consider that the 24 elders and the 4 beasts, or Living ones constitute the pre-trib saints? If not who do you think they are?

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On 5/11/2018 at 1:33 PM, Daniel 11:36 said:

And you will find out that it is son

In all likelihood some form of peace in Israel with the Palestinians should come about now that the US embassy is in Jerusalem. For real it's about time. Even Saudi Arabia has called out the Palestinian failure to agree to the many offers of peace from Israel. The Hamas spurred rioting of the Palestinians will only drive the process.

You will probably think this will signal the pretrib rapture but you would be mistaken. The beginning of the end comes after a confirmation of an existing agreement.

Palestine will want East Jerusalem as their capitol. Israel will balk at this unless some concession is made, and I'm thinking it will involve the Temple Mount. Israel wants a Temple. They have prepared for this over the decades, everything is ready: cornerstone, materials, furnishings, vessels, priests, animals, and they have been practicing the liturgy and rituals. Reality is about to intrude into the pretrib fantasy.

But no entity can assure the safety of Israel in the building of the Temple. That is until a strong leader rises. One with supernatural power. 

That day is coming. Best prepare your heart and spirit.  

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9 hours ago, Larry 2 said:

Thanks. Would you possibly consider that the 24 elders and the 4 beasts, or Living ones constitute the pre-trib saints? If not who do you think they are?

 

 

For the best understanding of the prophetic Scriptures, it is best to do so literally.  Not by attempting to do so by allegorical or spiritualization of it.  You have listed three groups in your above post.  I can only provide you answers for the 24 Elders and the 4 beasts, because you have not sufficiently identified who you are referring to by "living ones."  Provide the Scriptures from where you are drawing it from and I'll do my best to answer it for you;

Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.

There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament saints, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above.

 
The four great beasts of Daniel 7 -

In Daniel's chapter 7 dream we find: Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7:4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...Babylon
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...Medo Persia
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...Greece
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...Rome

In the verse below we learn that in the figurative language of a vision or dream in prophecy, a "beast" is a kingdom or empire.  With the exception of the beast out of the sea and the beast put of the earth in Rev.13, who are the Antichrist and the False Prophet. 

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

BEAST = KINGDOM

There is a broad agreement among Jewish and Christian scholars that the kingdoms represented by Daniel's lion, bear and leopard, are the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, followed by the fourth "terrible" beast, that is understood to be the Roman Empire.

This conclusion is reached within the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy. This is simply the view that bible prophecy is fulfilled steadily, as the era about which it is written gradually unfolds. This is the context in which virtually all Christians and Jews understand Old Testament prophecy.



Quasar93
Edited by Quasar93

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22 hours ago, Quasar93 said:

 

 

For the best understanding of the prophetic Scriptures, it is best to do so literally.  Not by attempting to do so by allegorical or spiritualization of it.  You have listed three groups in your above post.  I can only provide you answers for the 24 Elders and the 4 beasts, because you have not sufficiently identified who you are referring to by "living ones."  Provide the Scriptures from where you are drawing it from and I'll do my best to answer it for you;

Who are the twenty four Elders around the throne of God in Rev.4:4 ?

The twenty four Elders around the throne of God, represent the twenty four courses of the Levitical priesthood, with one priest for each course seated on each of the twenty four thrones.

As recorded in 1 Chr.24:7-18. In Jer.33:17-18: "For this is what the Lord says: 'David will never fail to have a man to sit on the throne of Israel, NOR WILL THE PRIESTS, who are Levites ever fail to have before me continually to offer burnt offerings, to burn grain offerings and to present sacrifices.'" See also 2 Sam.7 for God's promise to David.

There are many who attempt to identify them as the twelve apostles and twelve of the old testament saints, but there is nothing in the Bible to support this theory or any of the others, except the one above.

 
The four great beasts of Daniel 7 -

In Daniel's chapter 7 dream we find: Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel 7:4 The first [was] like a lion, and had eagle's wings...Babylon
Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear...Medo Persia
Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard...Greece
Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly...Rome

In the verse below we learn that in the figurative language of a vision or dream in prophecy, a "beast" is a kingdom or empire.  With the exception of the beast out of the sea and the beast put of the earth in Rev.13, who are the Antichrist and the False Prophet. 

Daniel 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

BEAST = KINGDOM

There is a broad agreement among Jewish and Christian scholars that the kingdoms represented by Daniel's lion, bear and leopard, are the successive ancient kingdoms of Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece, followed by the fourth "terrible" beast, that is understood to be the Roman Empire.

This conclusion is reached within the traditional continuous-historic context of prophecy. This is simply the view that bible prophecy is fulfilled steadily, as the era about which it is written gradually unfolds. This is the context in which virtually all Christians and Jews understand Old Testament prophecy.



Quasar93

I like that. A clear connection between points. 24 priests, 24 elders. That makes sense, bound by what could be common purpose, ministering before the Lord, officials of the priesthood reflecting the hierarchy of the heavens. 

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Revelation

4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold

 

John was taken into the future to  be shown the "things hereafter" and he saw the 24 elders .... the leaders of the pre-tribulation church [Revelation 7:9-17] 

 

Edited by Daniel 11:36

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3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Revelation

4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold

 

John was taken into the future to  be shown the "things hereafter" and he saw the 24 elders .... the leaders of the pre-tribulation church [Revelation 7:9-17] 

 

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Daniel 11:36, how many passages is it necessary that pretribulationists twist (wrest, torture from their meaning) in their attempt to make "the secret rapture" fit in harmony with all the Biblical texts?  I don't expect an answer from you Daniel 11:36, however, the many others who read these posts may be able to help me come up with a running count. We will start with these.

1) the 24 elders are the leaders of the pre-tribulation church.

2) apostasia really refers to the rapture, not a departure from the faith.

.....

Let Jesus Christ be praised.

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Daniel 11:36, how many passages is it necessary that pretribulationists twist (wrest, torture from their meaning) in their attempt to make "the secret rapture" fit in harmony with all the Biblical texts?

 

None .... you are a false teacner

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6 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

John was taken into the future to  be shown the "things hereafter" and he saw the 24 elders .... the leaders of the pre-tribulation church [Revelation 7:9-17]  

  • After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands; and they cry out with a loud voice, saying, “Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.”  And all the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying, “Amen, blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might, be to our God forever and ever. Amen.” Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?” I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. For this reason, they are before the throne of God; and they serve Him day and night in His temple; and He who sits on the throne will spread His tabernacle over them. They will hunger no longer, nor thirst anymore; nor will the sun beat down on them, nor any heat; for the Lamb in the center of the throne will be their shepherd, and will guide them to springs of the water of life; and God will wipe every tear from their eyes.”  Revelation 7:9-17

If you're going to make a statement and then post a scripture reference, the scripture reference should be relevant to the statement.  I don't see any relevance.  Care to offer an explanation?

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