Last Daze Posted June 4, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 84 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 4,011 Content Per Day: 1.12 Reputation: 2,519 Days Won: 4 Joined: 07/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Brother Duke said: Is there scripture that shows the church age and that the Rapture is the end of the church age? Apologies for chiming in but that's precisely the issue. There is no scriptural definition of "church age." It's a made up term. It's used largely as a replacement for or a segment of the "new covenant" because when you make stuff up, you can make it mean anything you want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 1 minute ago, Last Daze said: Apologies for chiming in but that's precisely the issue. There is no scriptural definition of "church age." It's a made up term. It's used largely as a replacement for or a segment of the "new covenant" because when you make stuff up, you can make it mean anything you want. It's not a made up term. The Church has a definite starting point and ending point on earth. There are three sets of believers in the Bible. The OT saints, the Church and the Tribulation believers. No one has to make things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: It's not a made up term. The Church has a definite starting point and ending point on earth. There are three sets of believers in the Bible. The OT saints, the Church and the Tribulation believers. No one has to make things up. Hi Shiloh, But where is this documented in scripture? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, Brother Duke said: Hi Shiloh, But where is this documented in scripture? The Church age begins in Acts 2. It ends when the Church is taken out of the world at the rapture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ENOCH2010 Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Senior Member Followers: 8 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 907 Content Per Day: 0.20 Reputation: 382 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/03/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/07/1866 Share Posted June 5, 2018 58 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said: So according to the pre-tribbers during the tribulation when someone reads the Bible and it says Christians are not appointed to wrath, they are supposed to say this is a lie? Shiloh can you have a go at this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 12 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: The Church age begins in Acts 2. It ends when the Church is taken out of the world at the rapture. Hi Shiloh, Acts 2 definitely shows the apostles and other believers receiving the Holy Spirit with the beginnings of the new covenant promise but where does it say this assembly or church is seperate from other assemblies like people who die in the tribulation and where does it say that the Rapture happens when this church is taken away? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said: Shiloh can you have a go at this Just because someone is going through the Tribulation doesn't mean they were appointed to it. Tribulation believers will be those who rejected the Gospel previously and now find Jesus in the Tribulation. They were not a segment of Christians that were left behind at the rapture because they were appointed by God to go through it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: Just because someone is going through the Tribulation doesn't mean they were appointed to it. Tribulation believers will be those who rejected the Gospel previously and now find Jesus in the Tribulation. They were not a segment of Christians that were left behind at the rapture because they were appointed by God to go through it. How many Raptures are there then? Are the Tribulation believers not raptured? What process do they go through? The Bible states that the dead in Christ are caught up before the living. Does that mean it goes like this? 1) Dead in Christ Believers before the Tribulation 2) Living in Christ Believers before the Tribulation 3) Dead in Christ Believers after the Tribulation 4) Living in Christ Believers after the Tribulation I count multiple raptures if this happens. Also how many people are raptured in this first rapture? We know that the 144,000 go through the tribulation and there is also a multitude of believers that die in the Tribulation that are so many they cannot even be counted but what does that leave for the first rapture? Edited June 5, 2018 by Brother Duke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Brother Duke said: Hi Shiloh, Acts 2 definitely shows the apostles and other believers receiving the Holy Spirit with the beginnings of the new covenant promise but where does it say this assembly or church is seperate from other assemblies like people who die in the tribulation and where does it say that the Rapture happens when this church is taken away? Why does the Bible have to spell it out in so many words in order for it to be true? Jesus said,"on this rock I will build my church." The church was still in the future even in Jesus' earthly ministry. If the church is taken out at the rapture, then the church age is over. That is pretty self-evident. The Bible doesn't use the word "grandfather," either. But can we document that there were grandfathers in the Bible without the Bible using that term explicitly? The Bible says nothing about "legalism" but we can document that Legalism did exist in Bible times. We need to stop trying to erect artificial standards where something has to be said in the exact wording we demand, in order for it to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Duke Posted June 5, 2018 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 255 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 92 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/03/2018 Status: Offline Share Posted June 5, 2018 Just now, shiloh357 said: Why does the Bible have to spell it out in so many words in order for it to be true? Jesus said,"on this rock I will build my church." The church was still in the future even in Jesus' earthly ministry. If the church is taken out at the rapture, then the church age is over. That is pretty self-evident. The Bible doesn't use the word "grandfather," either. But can we document that there were grandfathers in the Bible without the Bible using that term explicitly? The Bible says nothing about "legalism" but we can document that Legalism did exist in Bible times. We need to stop trying to erect artificial standards where something has to be said in the exact wording we demand, in order for it to be true. I can see that the Church most probably starts at Pentecost even though Stephen in Acts referred to Israel at Mount Sinai as the church also but I do not know of any scriptures showing the tribulations starts after a Rapture of Chrisitans but leaving behind Christians to be raptured again later. It is these very tribulation Saints that makes a pre-tribulation rapture hard for me to believe in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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