One of two categories.

[Running Gator]

9 hours ago, enoob57 said:

In this reasoning God cannot exist because it necessitates evil... or worse makes evil good and good evil at varying times.
The understanding of where we are is first to understand The God Who 'IS', the only of His Kind, created all else and 'IS' in Himself unbounded by finite concepts- simply we cannot know Him fully at this time! This should cause us to proceed with great caution for the war that is being waged here upon our place of beginning is being done by a created being much greater than we called satan…. 

1 Cor 8:2
2 And if any man think that he knoweth anything, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
KJV
To enter into this truth would be to relegate our puffed up -ness- into the humility of a child properly to that of belonging to God! All peoples in this present  state of confusion of lie verse truth is being played out here because of each and everyone of us are guilty of giving lie place... The magnitude of this reality and the power of lie is found in part by the infinite nature of truth- there is plenty without end for satan to pervert into lie! However the weakness of the lie is by fact empowered by a created being through perversion of truth realizing that The Lord has placed into a time line and an eternal place for keeping called hell... 

 

We live in a fallen world, if I had to choose between telling a lie and the death of innocent people, the lie will be told every time.  

[George]

2 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

And yet Rahab is in the "Faith Hall of Fame" and her main claim to fame is her lie.

Heb 11:31  By faith Rahab the prostitute did not perish with those who were disobedient, because she had given a friendly welcome to the spies.

[Guest shiloh357]

2 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

And yet Rahab is in the "Faith Hall of Fame" and her main claim to fame is her lie.

No, that is not her claim to fame.

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, shiloh357 said:

No, that is not her claim to fame.

 

It is what she is most known for. Ask 100 Christians who Rahab is and I bet greater than 90 of them mention the lie that saved the lies of the spies.

[Guest shiloh357]

There is no mixture of good and evil in us:

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 
(Rom 3:10-19)

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 
(Rom 7:18)

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 
(Gal 5:19-21)
 

From God's standpoint there is nothing good in us, at all. 
 

[Guest shiloh357]

7 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

 

It is what she is most known for. Ask 100 Christians who Rahab is and I bet greater than 90 of them mention the lie that saved the lies of the spies.

That's irrelevant and not a healthy ground for determining one's theology.  

What's relevant is that the Bible doesn't sanctify her lie.   It honors her faith in spite of her lie.  

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, Running Gator said:

We live in a fallen world, if I had to choose between telling a lie and the death of innocent people, the lie will be told every time.  

I know it sounds really noble... doesn't it? >BUT<
We are to follow after God in this fallen world... the error you are in is that this state of being here is to be more desired than to be with God in obedience(?)
Prov 14:12 repeated again vs 25
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
KJV
however if we are walking in the s/Spirit we will have this notion of placement and desire to be
Phil 1:21-23     (note: life in Christ begets life eternal with Christ) death is removed from all considerations...
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
KJV
It is a matter of faith, value, focus... it is a constant battle of reason and will 
Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV
 

 

 

[Running Gator]

27 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

I know it sounds really noble... doesn't it? >BUT<
We are to follow after God in this fallen world... the error you are in is that this state of being here is to be more desired than to be with God in obedience(?)
Prov 14:12 repeated again vs 25
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
KJV
however if we are walking in the s/Spirit we will have this notion of placement and desire to be
Phil 1:21-23     (note: life in Christ begets life eternal with Christ) death is removed from all considerations...
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
KJV
It is a matter of faith, value, focus... it is a constant battle of reason and will 
Gal 5:16-25
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
KJV
 

 

 

Question for you, had you been in Rahab’s position, would you had lied to save the lives of the spies?

[Guest shiloh357]

39 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

Question for you, had you been in Rahab’s position, would you had lied to save the lives of the spies?

Rahab was not a Christian and didn't' have the knowledge we have today.   So, it is not really a fair question to put a Christian.   We could never be in her position because her "position" includes the fact that she was a Canaanite, a pagan, a prostitute, and someone with barely any knowledge of the true God. 

Armed with what we know about God today, we strive to have a faith that obeys God, something Rahab couldn't do at the time. God used her in spite of her character flaw.   God didn't use her lie for His purposes because God is never party to sin. God didn't need Rahab to save the lives of those spies.   He didn't need to her in order to conceal them from the men searching for them.   Of course, she didn't know God and did not yet have that level of faith.   So the outcome is really in God's hands.   If God could part the Red Sea and rain down manna and perform all of the wonders recorded in Scripture, then God was more than able to save His faithful spies without Rahab's lie.  

Rahab was just starting to have faith in God.  Even Christians far more mature than Rahab still struggle with sin and their own personal character flaws as they strive to serve God and be obedient to Him.   Her flaws didn't diminish the faith that she had at the time.  And so it is possible to dismiss her lie for the sin that it was and at the same time honor her for faith and hospitality that she demonstrated. 

The Scriptures never justify doing the wrong thing for the right reasons.  The ends never justify the means.

[enoob57]

33 minutes ago, Running Gator said:

Question for you, had you been in Rahab’s position, would you had lied to save the lives of the spies?

I don't understand why you are letting externals in this world that is passing away sway you from letting God's Word form you into Christ likeness...
A better question for you is would Jesus lie?

When the walk of God is placed in a comparative to the world we are in this
1 Corinthians 4:10 (KJV)
[10] We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised.
[11] Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace;
[12] And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:
[13] Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day.
[14] I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.
[15] For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
[16] Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.

1 Corinthians 11:1 (KJV)
[1] Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

Why do we appear this way (above)because we are following Jesus... If we let the persuasion of this present world guide our walk with God we shall miss the mark! The Christ warned us what our lives would be like here (if we follow after Him)
John 15:8 (KJV)
[8] Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
[9] As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
[10] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
[11] These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
[12] This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
[13] Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
and we and those around us shall suffer for it
John 16:33 (KJV)
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
The goal is to be like Christ (no sin) and any philosophy that comes against this reality is earthy and not of God!