Prophecy ... Different Views Shouldn't Turn into Slanderous Accusations

[OldCoot]

And, just because Yeshua was not seen by John right off the bat in Revelation 4 does not mean He wasn't there.  I am sure there are a lot of things that were going on that John didn't specifically reference.  It is like looking at first at a image in a telescope.  At first something just looks like a star, but when you zoom in, you find out it is a galaxy.  The first thing John saw was the overall picture of the throne, the 24 thrones around it, and the 4 creatures that surrounded the throne.  Just because John didn't mention Yeshua in all that doesn't mean He wasn't there.  To base a doctrinal position on something not mentioned is pretty shoddy exegesis. 

 

[iamlamad]

On 10/9/2018 at 10:28 AM, WilliamL said:

No, it is YOU SAYING this is Jesus Christ. With no substantiation at all other than literary rationalizations, which have been equally refuted. You have no second witness. Same with your other "messages from Jesus."

You are free to believe or not. It is up to you. The question remains, John did not see Jesus in the throne room in chapter 4.  You can imagine all you want, but what Jesus said was very true: John did not SEE HIM there. 

Here is a second witness: "No man was found." WHY, William? WHY was "no man found?" Could it be just as I have been saying, because Jesus had not yet risen from the dead to BE FOUND worthy? If you can't believe this, then you must come up with another explanation. 

Third witness: the Holy Spirit IN the throne room in chapter 4, but SENT DOWN in chapter 5 - the moment Jesus ascended. 

Why did Jesus do this - show a throne room without Jesus and then show when He arrived?

Why did Jesus do this - show a search for one worthy that ended in failure, then show a search what was successful?

Why did Jesus do this - show a throne room where the Holy Spirit was present, but in the next chapter, show Him sent down?

I submit that God is showing us TIMING and the MOVEMENT of time.  I guess you will not believe either of these, because Jesus spoke both of these too me: I heard His voice and His these words:  "It shows timing."  Then later:  "It also shows the movement of time."

[iamlamad]

On 10/9/2018 at 11:18 AM, OldCoot said:

And, just because Yeshua was not seen by John right off the bat in Revelation 4 does not mean He wasn't there.  I am sure there are a lot of things that were going on that John didn't specifically reference.  It is like looking at first at a image in a telescope.  At first something just looks like a star, but when you zoom in, you find out it is a galaxy.  The first thing John saw was the overall picture of the throne, the 24 thrones around it, and the 4 creatures that surrounded the throne.  Just because John didn't mention Yeshua in all that doesn't mean He wasn't there.  To base a doctrinal position on something not mentioned is pretty shoddy exegesis. 

 

What is shoddy exegesis is not taking the entire passage into consideration. 

Jesus not there - but showing up later.

Holy Spirit there - but sent down later.

NO man found - but someone found later. 

God was not wasting words: He was painting us a picture with words. 

At LEAST someone should be able to see the movement of time.

[OldCoot]

There is nothing in that passage that says He showed up later, as if He wasn’t there as you imply.  The text only says that when John looked again, Yeshua (the Lamb) was in the midst of the throne.  One cannot honestly assert He wasn’t there before John saw Him.

but then, some folks think there are little green men on Mars and the moon is Swiss cheese.