The Seventieth Seven

[WilliamL]

As to verse 24, some old stuff of mine. Unable to change the text size:

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city…    [The 70 weeks were for the remnant of Judah (Daniel’s people) and for Jerusalem, none else.]

to finish the transgression/peshah…     [The word means and refers to the revolt/rebellion/apostasy of the priesthood, the one originally spoken of in Daniel 8:12, 13, 23. This took place when Antiochus Epiphanes, after being bribed, removed the pious Onias III from the high priesthood and installed his apostatizing brother Jason; latter 170s B.C. 1 Macc. 2:15 calls the subsequent debasement of the priesthood and Temple “the apostasy” [apostasian]. Similar corruptions of the priesthood, including bribes, took place during the time of Roman rule. Jesus condemned it, and prophesied the desolation of the religious establishment and destruction of Jerusalem and Temple because of it:

Matt. 23:29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ... 35 ...upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. ... 38 Behold, your house [i.e. the Temple] is left to you desolate."

Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. ... 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

And where were these things written about the desolations of Jerusalem and its Temple? Nowhere else but in Daniel 9:26-27. ]

 

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection.]

and to close up vision and prophecy…    [Matt. 11:13: “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.” OT prophecy – that of Daniel’s people – ended at John the Baptist. OT prophets had the Holy Spirit “come upon” them. Beginning at John, prophets were “filled with” it. The former phrase is never used by the NT, and the latter never by the OT.]

and to anoint the Most Holy.    [= Jesus. He received his initial anointing of the Holy Spirit after being baptized by John. Then became the anointed Melchizedek High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary.]

 

[JoeChan82]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news, but these are the facts.

I'll check it out. Thanks.

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

As to verse 24, some old stuff of mine. Unable to change the text size:

Dan. 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city…    [The 70 weeks were for the remnant of Judah (Daniel’s people) and for Jerusalem, none else.]

to finish the transgression/peshah…     [The word means and refers to the revolt/rebellion/apostasy of the priesthood, the one originally spoken of in Daniel 8:12, 13, 23. This took place when Antiochus Epiphanes, after being bribed, removed the pious Onias III from the high priesthood and installed his apostatizing brother Jason; latter 170s B.C. 1 Macc. 2:15 calls the subsequent debasement of the priesthood and Temple “the apostasy” [apostasian]. Similar corruptions of the priesthood, including bribes, took place during the time of Roman rule. Jesus condemned it, and prophesied the desolation of the religious establishment and destruction of Jerusalem and Temple because of it:

Matt. 23:29 “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! ... 35 ...upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. ... 38 Behold, your house [i.e. the Temple] is left to you desolate."

Luke 21:20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. ... 22 “For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled."

And where were these things written about the desolations of Jerusalem and its Temple? Nowhere else but in Daniel 9:26-27. ]

 

and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness…    [All accomplished by the Crucifixion and Resurrection.]

and to close up vision and prophecy…    [Matt. 11:13: “For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.” Luke 16:16: “The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presses into it.” OT prophecy – that of Daniel’s people – ended at John the Baptist. OT prophets had the Holy Spirit “come upon” them. Beginning at John, prophets were “filled with” it. The former phrase is never used by the NT, and the latter never by the OT.]

and to anoint the Most Holy.    [= Jesus. He received his initial anointing of the Holy Spirit after being baptized by John. Then became the anointed Melchizedek High Priest of the heavenly sanctuary.]

 

If I understand, you're saying it's all been fulfilled? Daniel 9:24-27, I mean. I guess you mean Daniel 8 has been fulfilled as well.

[Steve Conley]

Greetings in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ,

Dan 9:24  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

This is what I presently understand each of these to mean

1) To finish the transgression

This is a specific clear defiance of authority. It is Israel's rebellion which will come to an end within these 490 years (seventy weeks).

Rom 11:25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Israel's course of apostasy and sin will be brought to completion during the seventy weeks.

2) To make an end of sins

Mat 1:21  And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

This refers to sins (plural) in general. Within these 490 years Israel shall be saved from sin's presence, power, and penalty.

Eze 36:26  A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
Eze 36:27  And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Eze 37:23  Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

The Jewish people entering the millennial kingdom with a new heart will have a supernatural power to restrain sins in their daily life.

Note that this is concerning the Israeli people. There will still be a rebellion of the ethnos (the gentiles) at the end of the millennium.

3) To make reconciliation for iniquity

Reconciliation is the word kaw-far' which is translated atonement, to cover. It is that which is able to cover our sins. Only the blood of our sinless Lord Jesus could ever satisfy the righteous justice of God concerning our sins.

Heb 2:17  Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Heb 10:4  For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:10  By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Heb 10:12  But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Rom 3:25  Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

1Jn 2:2  And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Rom 1:16  For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

4) To bring in everlasting righteousness

Dan 2:44  And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Dan 7:27  And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Jer 33:14  Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will perform that good thing which I have promised unto the house of Israel and to the house of Judah.
Jer 33:15  In those days, and at that time, will I cause the Branch of righteousness to grow up unto David; and he shall execute judgment and righteousness in the land.
Jer 33:16  In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, The LORD our righteousness.

Isa 32:17  And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever.

Isa 11:4  But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Isa 11:5  And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Isa 11:6  The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isa 11:7  And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isa 11:8  And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
Isa 11:9  They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Isa 11:10  And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.

2Pe 3:13  Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

5) To seal up the vision and prophecy

To seal up is translated from the same word that was rendered "to make an end" earlier in the verse. Not only shall the vision and prophecy be fulfilled within these 490 years, but this statement might include that there will be no more visions and prophecy after these 490 years. Once a letter is sealed no more is added to it.

6) To anoint the most Holy

Ko'-desh, ko'-desh is the Holy of Holies in the Temple. This refers to the consecration of the Holy of Holies in the restored Temple of the millennial kingdom. (Ezek. 40-48)

To my understanding, only one of these conditions has been accomplished to date.

All praise, honour, and glory be unto the Lamb

 

[JoeChan82]

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem. This is a reference to Jeremiah 29 esp 29:10.

Jeremiah 29:10 For thus saith the LORD, That after seventy years be accomplished at Babylon I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place.

If you compare Jeremiah 29 to Daniel's long prayer in Daniel 9, it is clear that Daniel was praying about the things Jeremiah had written. The current captivity was what concerned Daniel, so I think that Gabriel's message to him has a primary fulfillment to the 70 years in Babylonian captivity.

How does that fit in with my futurist beliefs?

[JoeChan82]

After reading a lot of articles and books on this topic (the Bible reading goes without saying) there are a couple of things I've seen. No expert agrees with the other experts concerning timing.  There were at three phases of the Babylonian captivity. You tell me where to start the 70 year countdown, because I don't know. There are quite a few theories about who exactly and when exactly this decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was made. A couple of things are pretty clear to me though, the restoration of Jerusalem in Nehemiah is not the same thing as the restoration of the temple in Ezra.

I'm fairly certain that there were a few guys called Darius the Mede. He had a son and a grandson. Sometimes these names are more like titles than names.  I don't think there is such a person as Darius the Persian.

I checked out the claims made by William earlier in this post and he was right that somebody used calendar conversions to disprove the dates in  Anderson's The Coming Prince, but without the benefit of computer programs etc., Anderson wrote a great book. I think the differences in dates are pretty small. The scholarship on the identity of the kings involved is pretty cool.

[JoeChan82]

After reading all the work you have done on this subject, I might not understand your comment on the scripture on the timing of the Passover. It is always the 14th day of the first month, unless you were defiled by reason of war, then you could take it on the 14th day of the second month. Did I miss your point there?

[JoeChan82]

10 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 Yes.   I was not talking about Passover in the 2nd month,  Pesach Sheni,  which means little Passover.   Modern Judaism has adopted the Hillel calendar for their years.   It is a mathematical formula that determined when their years begin.   The idea of the barley being "abib", or ripe,  is of secondary importance.   The first month was originally called Abib or Aviv.  Karaite Jews still use the ripeness of the barley to determine when the "first" month has arrived.   But that method also allows for the year to begin before the spring equinox on March 20/21.  God instituted the lights in the heavens to be: 

*[[Gen 1:14]] KJV* And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

Signs, seasons, days,  and years.   As you probably know,  the lunar cycle is about 29.5 days.   And 12 lunar months would equal 354 days.   A Jewish month always begins with the new moon.   The inequity of a solar year versus a lunar year means that some lunar years will have an extra 13th month,  and that some lunar years would have 383.5 (354 + 29.5) days.   In a nutshell,  Abib was ordained by God to always be the 1st month of the year.   When the vernal/ spring equinox is used to determine the 1st month rather than when the barley is "ripe", the first month will always coincide with ripe barley rather than the year being determined by such.   

To restate things,  the first month (the sighting of the new moon)  would only begin after the vernal equinox.   Modern Judaism and sir Robert Anderson both allowed for the year to begin before the equinox.   If I am remembering right,  he determined that in the year of Artaxerxes longimanus ' decree,  that the year began around the 13th or 14th of March.   Actual reckoning would then have the first month of Abib to begin 1 month later, about April 13.  The 360 day prophetic calendar used to arrive at the 173,880 days in 483 years is a bogus apparition.  

Blessings

The PuP 

Thanks for taking the time. Yes, that makes perfect sense to me. I knew that those who use lunar based calendars had to add an extra month to their year every so often to make up for the difference of 365.25 and 360, but I never even thought about how they tried to figure out when the first month of the year began. That was very helpful.

[JoeChan82]

Good stuff, Da Puppers. Even though I had never considered the length of the millennial reign to be anything other than 1,000 years, I think your idea of 490+490= 980+20=1,000 years of Christ's earthly ministry has some real merit. Christ only read the first part of Isaiah 61:1-3 and then closed the book. Surely all of Isaiah 61 is Messianic, but vs 3 is future. Why not include those 20 years in the Messiah's reign?

Luke 4:17-20 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, 18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. 20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

[WilliamL]

On 6/27/2018 at 3:25 AM, Diaste said:

If I understand, you're saying it's all been fulfilled? Daniel 9:24-27, I mean. I guess you mean Daniel 8 has been fulfilled as well.

Yes. Most people have never made a detailed study of the history of this era, unfortunately, and so presume everything written will take place in the Latter Days. But Greek history, combined with the record of the Books of Maccabees, show that the events of Daniel 8 were fulfilled historically. As has been all of Daniel 11 up to at least verse 35, and all of Daniel 9. As I noted in my post, the apostasian spoken of in Maccabees is the translation of the Hebrew word pesha found in Daniel 8:12, 13, and 23, and Daniel 9:24. It was the same apostasy, the one which corrupted the Levitical priesthood, eventually leading to the end of the Jewish Era.

In the same manner, the "apostasia" of 2 Thes. 2 is that which has corrupted the Christian priesthood, and is leading to the end of the Christian Era.  A read of my blog post The Son of Perdition Is a Patsy explains the case in more detail.