Christians and drinking

[DWH2003]

Modern wine is not made in a still.  But in Biblical times and lands, they did not have the technical knowledge of how to distill alcohol nor how to prevent alcohol from continuing to vinegar (See Bible Wines by Patton.)  For example, distillation was not in Arabia until the 600s AD.  And Chaptalization was unknown in Bible lands in Bible times.  Chaptalization boosts the alcohol level in wine by adding sugar to the juice during fermentation. This is named after after Jean Antoine Chaptal c. 1756-1832 AD, Napoleon's minister for agriculture, who is said to have invented it. 

 

How would Prov. 20:1 prove they had a way to make something stronger than wine?  It merely distinguishes alcohol made of grapes and alcohol made of grain.  This does not prove any fortification, concentration, Chaptalization or distillation.

 

In modern times, grape juice is not called wine.  But, Biblically, it is definitely called wine in the OT & the NT.  I noted this earlier so I shall only repeat one example:

Isaiah 65:8 Thus saith Jehovah, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not, for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants’ sake, that I may not destroy them all. 

Alcohol is not in the cluster. Grape juice is in the cluster.  Thus, grape juice is called "wine" in the Bible.

 

And, God uses other language that is abundantly clear.  The word "sober" (Strong's #3525 — Verb — nepho) literally means "to be free from the influence of intoxicants".

1 Pet. 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer:

God directly says to "be free from the influence of intoxicants".  I do not know how one would get around this, or why one would want to get around this.  Our aim is to please God, not our flesh.

Edited July 12, 2018 by DWH2003

[Neighbor]

Malting of grain dates back to at the early history of mankind. If there was grain being stored, and there was,  there was malting going on too. And natural distillation does occur. Alchemy is distillation, the effort to unite the heavens with the earth, attempting such feats as the making of gold from lead etc. People with the ambition to try to do such things would have little trouble distilling grain alcohol and raising it's "purity" proof again and again.

[DWH2003]

Do you have proof that malting techniques were known & performed in Biblical times & lands?

 

Even if it was, which I doubt based on what I have looked at (doesn't mean I know everything), there is still the plain statement of the NT.

I repeat myself: 

"The word 'sober' (Strong's #3525 — Verb — nepho) literally means 'to be free from the influence of intoxicants'.

1 Pet. 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer:

God directly says to 'be free from the influence of intoxicants'.  I do not know how one would get around this, or why one would want to get around this.  Our aim is to please God, not our flesh."

[Still Alive]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 9:24 PM, creativemechanic said:

maybe it's my denominational values but i never got.  why do some of us get defensive over  thr ability to do this activity?yeah drinking itself  isn't prohibited just  excess but thinking abt it, there's  no possible benefits only all negative  ( unless dr prescribed )

Like sex, it is something that can get out of hand because it's so pleasurable (no pun intended).

I'm still having sex with my wife, though, and I enjoy a good scotch from time to time.

[Still Alive]

28 minutes ago, DWH2003 said:

Do you have proof that malting techniques were known & performed in Biblical times & lands?

 

Even if it was, which I doubt based on what I have looked at (doesn't mean I know everything), there is still the plain statement of the NT.

I repeat myself: 

"The word 'sober' (Strong's #3525 — Verb — nepho) literally means 'to be free from the influence of intoxicants'.

1 Pet. 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore of sound mind, and be sober unto prayer:

God directly says to 'be free from the influence of intoxicants'.  I do not know how one would get around this, or why one would want to get around this.  Our aim is to please God, not our flesh."

Here's how you get around it: I don't support a single thing I believe about my relationship with my creator nor my fellow man based on a single biblical verse in an English interpretation/translation. The bible paints a complete picture. I base my theology/doctrine on the entire picture as presented in the bible.

For more detailed explanation of the alcohol thing, go to youtube and find the video by Mike Winger called "what the bible REALLY says about alcohol.

For extra credit, also on youtube. search for "unlearn the lies" and Alcohol.

There are plenty of articles as well that go into this in depth, but those videos are interesting for me because I'm able to listen to them on my commute.

[Still Alive]

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 6:46 AM, creativemechanic said:

 You don't have to drink alcohol to live, do you¿

Actually, in biblical times, you didn't need to drink alcohol in the same way that you didn't need to eat bread. You could get by on fruits, vegetables and meat. But when you crush grapes, the sugars mix with the yeast on the skin and it WILL turn into alcohol. At least, that was how it happened before the method was created to prevent that from happening, but that was many centuries after Jesus resurrection.

And Grape juice was extremely common. Heck, one of my friends, at the age of 17 when she visited her grandmother in Italy, was given a sack lunch by her grandma for her walking trip. The drink in it was wine. In the US it would have been maybe a coke or milk.

The whole anti-drinking thing is uniquely American and its roots can be easily identified. Read up on our cultural and political history that led to prohibition - the only constitutional amendment to be repealed.

[Still Alive]

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 3:23 PM, Cletus said:

Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine.  and based on what was said it was some good stuff.  drinking is not a sin.   drunkenness is a sin.  However,  for some drinking one is to many and it instantly turns into 1000 is not enough.  For others they just think its an abomination, and so to them it is.  for those who have liberty to drink, they should not drink in front of someone who will be offended or who are weak and it would turn into a problem for them, because then it is a sin.

and as far as there being no health benefits, that simply is not true(at least for wine) and there is even scriptural evidence of it.  1 Timothy 5:23   there is health benefits for drinking wine in moderation and if you do a little research you can learn about it.  Or you can say your position is the only position and you are right, no matter what you say or the bible says!  and thats fine too.  The health benefits though should not be a justification to drink if someone has had a problem with drinking in the past. 

For me personally, i can drink and its not a problem as long as i am not drinking a drink everyday.  I can say no.  some people cant.  I havent drunk a drop in over three years now.  not due to me saying no, I just havent wanted any. 

 

Reminds me of a great country song:

He was sittin' at the bar
Sippin' on a regular Coke
We were drinkin' and smokin'
And makin' him the butt of our jokes

We all said,? Man, what happened to you?
Why can't you just have a few?
He said,? I would if I could
But it's probably best that I don't?

'Cause the more I drink, the more I drink
Then I'm the world's greatest lover and a dancin' machine
I get loud, I get proud and it gets worse

Well, if I have one I'll have thirteen
Now there ain't no in between
'Cause the more I drink, the more I drink

A couple of cold ones
And somebody hands me a shot
Hell, even buck-tooth and bow-legged women
Start lookin' hot

And pretty soon I'm bummin' cigarettes
And sweet talkin' some big brunette
Yeah, once I get on a roll
Ain't no tellin' where I'll stop

'Cause the more I drink, the more I drink
Then I'm the world's greatest lover and a dancin' machine
I get loud, I get proud and it gets worse

Well, if I have one I'll have thirteen
Now there ain't no in between
'Cause the more I drink, the more I drink, the more I drink, yep, yep

Man, if I have one I'll have thirteen
And they can't get me off the karaoke machine
The more I drink, the more I drink
Yeah, the more I drink, the more I drink, the more I drink

 

[Still Alive]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:06 AM, Riccardo said:

This has been a difficult one for many, seeing that all grape juice was called wine. 

The grape juice referred to as the good or new wine was grape juice.

 Romans 12:1,2 present your bodies as a living sacrifice unto God,

1Cor. 6:19,20 Your body is the temple if God,

1Cor10:31 Whatever you eat or drink do all to the glory of God.

It was Chist in the old testament who warned Israel

Prov.20:1 Wine is a mocker.

Prov 23:29-32 Do not drink fermented wine. It brings sorrow,wow,& contention. It is deceptive & clouds judgment.  There are others.

There is also a duty of care involved by Jesus here as well.

But people will believe what they want to suit their desire to have it.

Is there anywhere in the bible that says its good, if so we have some serious contradictions or rather incorrect translating.

God Bless

 

Thing is, before a method was invented to prevent the fermentation process many centuries after the resurrection of Christ, all grape juice WAS wine, unless freshly squeezed. The question is only, "how strong was it".

There is yeast on the skin of grapes. Crush them, and it reacts with the sugar in the grapes, creating wine. This knowledge helps one understand why the bible mentioned new wine and old wine.

[Still Alive]

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:06 AM, Riccardo said:

Is there anywhere in the bible that says its good, if so we have some serious contradictions or rather incorrect translating.

 

Psalm 104:15

wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil that makes his face to shine and bread that sustains his heart.

[Neighbor]

On 6/29/2018 at 3:23 PM, Cletus said:

Jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine.  and based on what was said it was some good stuff.  drinking is not a sin.   drunkenness is a sin.  However,  for some drinking one is to many and it instantly turns into 1000 is not enough.  For others they just think its an abomination, and so to them it is.  for those who have liberty to drink, they should not drink in front of someone who will be offended or who are weak and it would turn into a problem for them, because then it is a sin.

and as far as there being no health benefits, that simply is not true(at least for wine) and there is even scriptural evidence of it.  1 Timothy 5:23   there is health benefits for drinking wine in moderation and if you do a little research you can learn about it.  Or you can say your position is the only position and you are right, no matter what you say or the bible says!  and thats fine too.  The health benefits though should not be a justification to drink if someone has had a problem with drinking in the past. 

For me personally, i can drink and its not a problem as long as i am not drinking a drink everyday.  I can say no.  some people cant.  I havent drunk a drop in over three years now.  not due to me saying no, I just havent wanted any. 

 

Ya know upon rereading some of these posts I wonder if one can split hairs that way- -to say drinking alcohol, is okay but getting drunk isn't. seems to me at the famous wedding the one made famous by Jesus providing at his mother's request more wine for the guests after they had consumed all that was available. They remaked that he had provided  the best wine , after they had consume dso much that he could have gotten away with  a down grade due to their state after having finishe doff all that was there.

Seems to me Jesus tended bar in a sense or at least became the liquor store delivery service to many that had already consumed their fill, and perhaps beyond. So was it is sin to do so? It wasn't like they were all going to need a designated driver in order to get home, but I suppose there could easily have been some inebriated ones that lost their inhibitions somewhere along the day and evening along with good sense, maybe embarrassing themselves in the process.

Just trying to visualize it-