President Trump

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, Littlelambseativy said:

How about White, Graham, Hagee and I cannot recall the minister from Texas. Then there are those who God has placed in his inner circle..Pence, Huckabee etc.

Please share, I haven't seen comments by these individuals stating that Trump has surrendered his life to Jesus Christ.

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

Isn't interesting that as much as Obama schmoozed with the Muslims and Communists, promoted LGBT values and gay marriage, and lied repeatedly to the American people, no one questioned his claim to be a Christian?

I very strongly question his authentic Christianity, but he isn't the topic of the OP.

[Blue1Sapphire]

3 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Usually a candidate with good moral character aligns with the same issues that concern Christians such as being against abortion and supporting the Biblical definition of marriage for example.

In the past most Republican presidential candidates not only held the same position on these issues, but they also had what appeared to be strong moral values, so it didn't become a problem until 2016. Trump may have claimed to support the same positions as I do on many of the issues, but he also had a reputation of being a liar, a man who betrayed not one, but three wives, and broke oaths to God when he promised to love and to cherish two of his previous wives until death, so how could I trust him to be honest with me and to our country? Add in the bigotry, pettiness, impulsiveness, misogyny, obsession with wealth, pride in self, and the lack of empathy that Trump displays, and there was no way I could support or vote for him despite his position on the issues we may have agreed on.

When I read the Bible, in both the Old and the New Testaments obedience is a top priority for believers. Jesus is my Lord and Savior, so following His commands and teachings are of upmost importance in my walk with Him. I could not put my personal witness in jeopardy by voting for a candidate who lives a life that is so out of tune with the teachings of Jesus and the Bible. 

When I vote for a candidate they are to represent me and what I stand for, so the candidate I support in a public office in turn becomes a direct reflection of me and my values. Yes, Trump may have supported some of the same issues as myself, but his personal character directly contradicts that of a follower of Christ; therefore, I had to choose which is most important; the issues of the world, or how it would appear to the world if I voted for a candidate who also claims to be a believer, yet lives a blatantly sinful and disobedient worldly life. For me the choice to not support Trump was a very easy one to make. 

 

 

 

Can you advise me of your age. I'm interested?

[Blue1Sapphire]

1 minute ago, Badjao33 said:

51

Thank you.....

[one.opinion]

1 hour ago, Cobalt1959 said:

I have highlighted one statement above because you will get yourself into trouble if you continue to use statements like the one I highlighted.  You are not allowed to question people's salvation here, and it is a violation of the T.O.S.  I didn't report it, because you are new, but it would be unwise to continue making those kinds of statements.

I make no call on Trump's salvation one way or another.  That's way above my pay grade.  You shouldn't either since we are not called to make a concrete evaluation of someone else's salvation one way or another.  We should just stay busy working on our own.  But I will say that I don't expect godly-like behavior from a person who's never displayed it in the past.  It's a shop-warn phrase, but the man is President, not my pastor.  I expect him to act like a President.  I don't expect him to stand in the oval office and make astounding statements like a theologian or preach a sermon filled with fire and brimstone.  That isn't why he's there.  Personally, I don't like Trump.  I didn't vote for him.  I didn't vote for him specifically because of some of his weak moral history and I think that compromises his ability to lead.  But it is not up to me, or anyone else to hold him to some kind of moral or spiritual standard that he has not held in the past because he is not making clear or strong professions of faith and then violating them with his actual behavior.  Obama actually did this the entire 8 years he was president.  He repetitively told people he was a Christian while he supported things God abhors.  I can't call out Trump because, so far, he hasn't done the same thing.  Trump should be allowed to be on Twitter at all.  Some people say he is incredibly bright, but I don't see it.  But so far, he has done a good job, no matter what personal faults he might have.  And he has accomplished a great deal against some mind-numbingly stupid opposition.  I'm not expecting him to get people saved.  I am expecting him to run the country.

I will ask again:  Obama repeatedly said that he was a Christian as well.  Did you hold our past president to the same standard you are holding Trump to?   

I largely agree with this. The big difference is that too many conservative Christians are "all aboard the Trump train" unquestioningly and follow regardless of what he does. Too many liberal Christians were "all aboard the Obama train" as well. We need to be able to think critically about our elected officials regardless of whether or not they are on "our side".

[Blue1Sapphire]

3 hours ago, one.opinion said:

How can you say that when he has spent so much time at his resorts. It is absolutely NOT a lie to say that his business empire has profited from his presidency. On the contrary, saying his business empire has NOT profited is a popular lie.

Whether he has or hasn't is of little concern to me. What is of concern is, does he support Christian worldviews and giving the people back control of their Government. That is, less Government.

[Mozart's Starling]

35 minutes ago, Blue1Sapphire said:

Whether he has or hasn't is of little concern to me. What is of concern is, does he support Christian worldviews and giving the people back control of their Government. That is, less Government.

See this is the underlying issue here. "I don't care" has now become an acceptable sentiment. "I don't care what the truth is I just want my parties agenda implemented". You have any idea how insane that sounds? Sorry mate, it is a dark path you're on if the truth no longer matters to you. Melania literally wore a "I don't care" labled piece of clothing about those silly liberals not being cool with mass separation of families.  Now before you say the obvious counterpoint like "it happened under obama too" (which it in fact did) it did NOT happen at such a rate. It was a rare occurence in extreme circumstances, but under Trump's philosophy it became more prevelant. Not caring about your fellow man or the truth aren't words that should be coming out of members on a Christian site. Not calling your faith into question btw (God doesn't magically cure your problems you have to devote time to them, and I have PLENTY myself), just that your words of indicitave of issues you need to come to terms with. It's genuinely disturbing to see.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Mozart's Starling

[Debp]

9 hours ago, Cletus said:

there is a video on youtube titled the speech that made trump president.  how long has it been since we had a president that stood for those things?  

I also did a search for Trump being saved and this is what I found:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/26/us/politics/a-born-again-donald-trump-believe-it-evangelical-leader-says.html

Also, If you read the article... I listen to focus on the family on the radio, its very good.  Highly recommend it. 

Thanks for the article.  

9 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

Here is what Paul wrote about people like President Trump. 

 "I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler-- not even to eat with such a one."  (1 Corinthians 5:11) 

When Paul says do not associate with, or do not eat with, I would take it a step further and say do not support or vote for such a person. Why? Because who we support reflects on who we are. Yes, Trump supports many of things that we as believers support, but his blatant disregard for the teachings of Christ and his immoral behavior over shadows all of that in my opinion.  

Since President Trump is a new Christian please give him time to grow spiritually.   If someone comes to you as a new believer with some sins he is having a problem with, I sure hope you will take the time to encourage him or her, rather than yelling at them and avoiding them.  If the person has been a Christian for some years and still is sinning, then the above Scripture applies.

9 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

That appeared in the context of a congregational setting.  Paul was talking to a church that was allowing an incestual relationship take place in their midst.  You are ripping that out of the immediate context.  Jesus associated with all kinds of sinners and immoral people on a regular basis and was known to eat with them which is an important aspect of fellowship and hospitality in the ancient near east. 

I will also say that we vote for immoral people all of the time.  Every Congress person in DC has some kind of scandal going on and we pretty much know it.   We just turn a blind eye to how the sausage is made in the halls of Congress and the gross moral failings of all of our elected officials on both sides, so this fake moral outrage about Trump is pretty hollow. 

And if you are going to support the CATC even though it is rife with anti-Semitism and bigotry, you cannot be morally consistent with your position on Trump.

2 hours ago, ayin jade said:

What were you like before you got saved? What were you like as a new believer? 

According to pastors who know him and have met with him, he got saved last year. So all the sins of his past are forgiven by Christ. So why are you holding those against him?

Shiloh, What is the CATC?

Ayin Jade, you are so right....if someone has now come to Christ, how can fellow Christians hold his previous sins against him?  That is a very  hard-hearted thing to do!  God alone knows the President's heart.

 

1 hour ago, Badjao33 said:

Before I was very disobedient to God and made no effort whatsoever to follow Christ. On the day I was saved I cried for what seemed like for hours, I repented immediately and even went to people I had wronged over the years and asked for their forgiveness, I then gave up my old life and literally sold all of my possessions and left my family and friends behind to follow Christ.  Not everyone's conversion is that dramatic of course and for many it's a gradual process, but that's what happened to me when I was baptized into Christ and my eyes were opened up to the truth of how sinful I was. 

He's still a liar to this very day. There are also many other things he says and does today that I feel are contrary to the teachings of Christ. He has also not shown any remorse or outward signs of repentance for his past sins.

Lying lips are an abomination to the LORD (Proverbs 12:22)

There are six things which the Lord hates, yes, seven which are an abomination to Him: Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood, A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil, A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers. (Proverbs 6:16-19)

It is also important that we do not become deceived. While I have no way of knowing the heart of President Trump when it comes to his salvation, it's important to remember that not everyone who claims to be a Christian and tells Christians what they want to hear, are really Christians. 
 

As you said above...."for many it's a gradual process."

So why not for the President, if you realize some people take longer to grow spiritually?  Why are you being so harsh on him when you (hopefully) would not treat others that way.

[Mozart's Starling]

7 minutes ago, Debp said:

Thanks for the article.  

Since President Trump is a new Christian please give him time to grow spiritually.   If someone comes to you as a new believer with some sins he is having a problem with, I sure hope you will take the time to encourage him or her, rather than yelling at them and avoiding them.  If the person has been a Christian for some years and still is sinning, then the above Scripture applies.

Shiloh, What is the CATC?

Ayin Jade, you are so right....if someone has now come to Christ, how can fellow Christians hold his previous sins against him?  That is a very  hard-hearted thing to do!  God alone knows the President's heart.

 

As you said above...."for many it's a gradual process."

So why not for the President, if you realize some people take longer to grow spiritually?  Why are you being so harsh on him when you (hopefully) would not treat others that way.

I'll put this in my notebook if I ever become a future politcian. Go through 70 years of life of hedonism, wrath, lies, and greed, then run for the Republican party and say I spoke to God and I like totally believe in him now guys, for reals. Not saying older gents can't repent, God will accept you whenever you come to him, true. But imo, gonna utilize that good ole common sense tag, it is less likely that you have a come to Jesus moment right when you suddenly become a Republican and continue to behave in the manner you have throughout your life. It is more likely you are opportunist like you have always been. Again, I am not saying that Trump is or is not saved. Just saying that is one heck of a turn to have at such a convient time. Again media aside, his own own tongue betrays him on a regular basis. If he spoke less often I'd think more of him frankly.

Edited July 19, 2018 by Mozart's Starling

[Guest shiloh357]

6 minutes ago, Debp said:

Shiloh, What is the CATC?

It is a bi-annual gathering called "Christ at the Checkpoint" and it is hosted by Bethlehem College in Israel. And it is attended by of some the most anti-Semitic/anti-Israel Christians and Christian leaders from around the world including holocaust deniers.   It is basically a pro-Palestinian, anti-Israel hate fest and that tries to wear a veil of "Christian love" but is rooted in solidarity with the Palestinian people and their eventual goal of dismantling Israel.  It is basically white collar anti-Semitism.   There are lots of articles about it out there and just how dangerous and poisonous and racist it is.