Some Good Advice from A Pope?

[Fidei Defensor]

Pope Gregory makes a very inter-denominational statement, “Therefore, select from each of the Churches whatever things are devout, religious, and right.” (Pope Gregory to S. Augustine, Bede, Penguin Classics). Good advice. Take the meat from different churches and spit out the bones.  

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Yowm said:

Yes the Lord will fight. Where in Acts or the Epistles do you see the Apostles taking up the sword to fight? 

 

Through out the old testiment times with the people of Israel , we see that the Lord some times dealed with situations in different ways. 

He deliver the people out of Egypt without an army. 

He used Moses, who was a man trained to be a Leader, even a Leader of an army, but he never asked him for his skils as a Captain of the army. 

Later he asked them to fight and build an army. 

There no instructions in the Law of Moses pertaining how to build an army , and how to use the sowrd or the arrow. 

What does that mean? 

Should the people refuse to be part of the army, or refused to train themselfs in the sword or war arts and strategies by simply saying it's not in the Law, there is not instructions how to use the sowrd. To the contary the Law says: shall not kill and still and reaped were you did not show. 

There people today in Israel who use the same excuses to refuse to take up training in arms and enjoy their freedom on the expense of the others. 

And they claimed to be the people closest to God and that they are the only ones who obey and loved by God. 

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

8 hours ago, Fidei Defensor said:

Pope Gregory makes a very inter-denominational statement, “Therefore, select from each of the Churches whatever things are devout, religious, and right.” (Pope Gregory to S. Augustine, Bede, Penguin Classics). Good advice. Take the meat from different churches and spit out the bones.  

I got a far simplier solution .      JUST take the meat and things FROM THE BIBLE and since we know ITS pure ,   then we know its all we need to learn from .

WITH the bible ,  we can take the meat and we don't have to spit anything out , because it is all truth .

Much simplier and no confusion .     We don't need to learn good from evil .    Meaning just that ,  many false prophets do say Righteous things ,

but sit under them and watch how fast foks will fall away . WE don't need to learn anything from Rome , emergent or any other false institution .

We got the BIBLE and WE HAVE CHRIST .    IN CHRIST we will learn , and if we have NOT CHRIST , well then we wont fully understand the bible anyway .

Much better and simplier advice than pope Gregory gave .     JUST LEARN CHRIST , feast on the bible and well, what a source of pure truth .

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

And speaking of paul .    One can barely imagine HIM ever saying take the good from any false churches and spit out the evil bones.

PAUL would have said , Have no company with that ,   sit under and learn nothing from men who are false ,  simply LEARN CHRIST , HE IS ALL WE NEED .

Folks have been misleading folks for years ,  with the concepts of we can learn anything from false insititutions .

YOU do know what this really does .     It causes men to fall away .    For they will see the good things that yes , even some in rome did ,

but no marvel .  NO MARVEL ,  for satan himself can appear as an angel of light ,   its no great thing for his ministirs to appear as men of righteousness

saying some of the very core right things and yet at the same time planting ideals that will cause the people to fall away.

ITS HOW DECEPTOIN WORKS .    so let us just exhort one another WITH THE BIBLE ,  with the gifts of the Spirit .     JUST keep it simple .

 

[Fidei Defensor]

8 hours ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I got a far simplier solution .      JUST take the meat and things FROM THE BIBLE and since we know ITS pure ,   then we know its all we need to learn from .

WITH the bible ,  we can take the meat and we don't have to spit anything out , because it is all truth .

Much simplier and no confusion .     We don't need to learn good from evil .    Meaning just that ,  many false prophets do say Righteous things ,

but sit under them and watch how fast foks will fall away . WE don't need to learn anything from Rome , emergent or any other false institution .

We got the BIBLE and WE HAVE CHRIST .    IN CHRIST we will learn , and if we have NOT CHRIST , well then we wont fully understand the bible anyway .

Much better and simplier advice than pope Gregory gave .     JUST LEARN CHRIST , feast on the bible and well, what a source of pure truth .

 

I admire your zeal. I agree stick to the Bible and be lead by the Spirit of God. I just happen to see some positive messages in the non-God breathed books and sources. 

You have to understand that you are standing for truth, as I am. I happen to be called to an arena where I must know what people believe and read and watch so as to take the Truth to them. People feel respected and loved when you know what they know; that doesn’t mean you agree with what they know or believe. For instance in seminary we studied the Q’uran and the Hadiths of Muhammad. In them we found tools, for instance Muhammad said in First Hadith, “Muhammad having been to the cave and heard the revelation from Gibreal, and he said to his wife Khaji, I believe this spirit that appeared to me is a jinn, an evil spirit.” I have used this information in witnessing the Gospel to Muslims, that their prophet believed the revelation  he got was a lie from a jinn (genie, evil spirit). I also share that in the Koran Muhammad calls Isa (Jesus) the Word of God, and we teach to Muslims, “where is your word? They think and then point to their heart and mind, and we say so your word comes from you and is you expressed in words through your mouth? They say yes. Then is Jesus is the Word of God, is He God?” At this the Muslim often goes into shock in a good way. 

The Truth is Jesus (John 14:6) and the Scriptures are Gid breathed (2Timothy 3:-6, 2 Peter 1:20-21). There are tools outside the Bible, but you use the Bible to bring the tools out and lead people to Christ. 

[Your closest friendnt]

8 hours ago, Yowm said:

Apples and oranges. It's one thing to pick up arms as a citizen of a country, another as a citizen of heaven. You can't compare the Theocracy of Israel to the Church when it comes to physical land/armies.

Your kingdom come on earth as it is in Heaven. 

The Kingdom Jesus had in his mind when he said those words has nothing to do with "Israel". 

It says the kingdom of God to come on the earth. 

That it has not come yet on the earth. 

Because when Jesus said that he was physically in Israel, when he said Earth did not mean Israel, but Israel is included within the meaning of Earth.  

The kingdom of God as it is in Heaven. 

It will never leave Heaven, but it calls for the expansion of the kingdom of God on Earth. 

The kingdom of God has come already on earth. 

The good news of the Gospel is preach on the whole earth, including Israel. 

As Jesus explained to Peter the whole Earth and the people their on have been cleans in his name. 

The correct way to adress them is the former Gentiles as they are not Gentiles anymore, and the former people of God of the Nation of Israel, as they are not the people of God anymore according to the Law of Moses, there is no more one of the former or the other. 

There is the new man on earth that includes both the former Gentiles and the former Israelites.

Jesus Christ is already a King and he rains in Heaven and from Heaven in all the earth, not upon all the earth but in all the earth,  in the hearts of his people, everywhere they are on earth. 

Jesus asked Constantine to help him with the expansion of his Kingdom here on earth, when he Constantine  fought the war in his name and won, and Christianity was set free from the chaines of oppression and prosecution. 

What a great day was that. 

Just try to see the joy and the praise and thanksgiving in the hearts of his believers. 

To glorified his name in the markets and open spaces with the army of the emperor there to protect them, what a great day was that , instand of prosecuting them the authorities were there to protect them. 

Many had fallen in the battle thought, and they rejoice in that freedom only in the batlle before they fall. 

We should honor them, as they are honor by Jesus Christ for their sacrificing their lives for the advancement of the Gospel. 

[Fidei Defensor]

It is hard to reconcile buy a sword (Luke 22:36) with Love your enemies (Luke 6:27-36). Something I am mulling over as we speak.

When compared to the two approaches, the Crusader who believed killing Muslims in holy war was just and gave them certainty of salvation (Catholic Jihad Akbar) and St. Francis of Assisi who said he would rather go to the Muslims and preach the Gospel to them, I think Francis is right. Granted I don't agree with much of what St. Francis said, his quote, "preach the gospel, and when necessary use words," flies in face of the Scripture, "Go and make disicples of all nations, baptizing them in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," () and "Preach the gospel to all nations." (). Preaching is using words, so no, Francis was wrong on that account, but his desire to see the Gospel reach the Muslims is a good one, and we should with both the Spirit and Scripture go to the Saracen and preach Jesus the Savior.

[Fidei Defensor]

On 8/7/2018 at 4:34 AM, Your closest friendnt said:

Through out the old testiment times with the people of Israel , we see that the Lord some times dealed with situations in different ways. 

He deliver the people out of Egypt without an army. 

He used Moses, who was a man trained to be a Leader, even a Leader of an army, but he never asked him for his skils as a Captain of the army. 

Later he asked them to fight and build an army. 

There no instructions in the Law of Moses pertaining how to build an army , and how to use the sowrd or the arrow. 

What does that mean? 

Should the people refuse to be part of the army, or refused to train themselfs in the sword or war arts and strategies by simply saying it's not in the Law, there is not instructions how to use the sowrd. To the contary the Law says: shall not kill and still and reaped were you did not show. 

There people today in Israel who use the same excuses to refuse to take up training in arms and enjoy their freedom on the expense of the others. 

And they claimed to be the people closest to God and that they are the only ones who obey and loved by God. 

 

Holy War is a difficult subject for many to swallow. The major differentiation is that just war is in defense of ones nation or ally. Holy war is that only blessed and led by God or His representative (according to History, not me). 

I marvel at people who claim that taking up the sword is sin when they are able to say that because soldiers are dying for their freedom to pontificate antiwar sympathies. Pacifists are protected by warriors, oh the irony. 

Now having a personal conviction about not fighting is one thing, but to demonize anyone who does fight is wrong. After all the wording isn’t” “thou shalt not kill,” it is “thou shalt not murder.” Murder is premeditated and selfish in its aim, killing in war isn’t because a soldier doesn’t know who the will face in the battlefield and they are protecting the freedoms of their nation. 

[Fidei Defensor]

11 hours ago, Badjao33 said:

This is not what Muhammad is recorded as saying. Here is the hadith in its entirety. 

Aisha, mother of the believers, reported: The beginning of the revelation to the Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, was in the form of good dreams which came true like bright daylight; then, the love of seclusion was bestowed upon him. He used to go in seclusion in the cave of Hira where he used to worship Allah continuously for many days until he desired to see his family. He would take with him food for the stay and then come back to his wife Khadija to take his food again, until suddenly the truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, “I do not know how to read.” The Prophet added, “The angel caught me and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read and I replied: I do not know how to read; thereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time until I could not bear it any more. He then released me and again asked me to read but I replied: I do not know how to read; thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me, and then released me and said: Read in the name of your Lord, who has created everything, who has created man from a clot. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous.” (96:1-3) Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration and with his heart beating severely. Then he went to Khadija bint Khuwailid and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him until his fear subsided and then he told her everything that happened and he said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija replied, “Never! By Allah, Allah will never disgrace you. You keep good relations with your family, you help the poor and the destitute, you serve your guests generously, and you assist those afflicted by calamities.”

Khadija then accompanied him to her cousin Waraqa bin Nawfal, who during the time of ignorance became a Christian and he would write with Hebrew letters. He would write from the Gospel in Hebrew as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to Waraqa, “Listen to the story of your nephew, O my cousin!” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew, what have you seen?” The Prophet described whatever he had seen. Waraqa said, “This is the same one who keeps the secrets whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” The Prophet asked, “Will they drive me out?” Waraqa replied, “Yes, anyone who came with something similar to what you have brought was treated with hostility; and if I should remain until till the day when you will be turned out then I would strongly support you.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the revelation was paused for a while.

Jabir ibn Abdullah reported: Concerning the pause in revelation, the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “While I was walking, all of a sudden I heard a voice from the sky. I looked up and saw the same angel who had visited me at the cave of Hira sitting on a chair between the sky and the earth. I became afraid of him and I came back home and I said, Wrap me! Then Allah revealed the verse: O you wrapped up, arise and warn, and exalt your Lord, and purify your garments, and abandon the idols. (74:1-5) After this the revelation started coming strongly and frequently.” (Sahih Bukhari 4, Sahih Muslim 160)

I'm not sure where that quote from Muhammad came from, but its not found in any Islamic texts. In the hadiths it is recorded as being an Angel who came to Muhammad. There's no mention that it was a jinn who revealed the Qur'an to Muhammad or that he thought it was a lie. 

Islam teaches that the Qur'an is the word of God. I would expect every Muslim would instantly respond to the question "Where is your word?" with "The Qur'an." There is nothing in Islam that teaches that the word is within them. In Islam the word of God is always sent down (Tanzil) to his messengers. It then becomes written. The scrolls were sent down to Abraham, the Tuarat (Torah) to Moses, the Zabur (Psalms) to David, the Injil (Gospel) to Jesus, and the Qur'an to Muhammad. If a true Muslim were to be asked "Where is your word?", they would answer either with "The Qur'an", or the Qur'an and a combination of some of the other books.  

For Muslims the word of God became a book, the Qur’an. For Christians the Word became a person, Jesus Christ.

“The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us” (John 1:14)

I was a bit late to the conversation and sorry this was a bit off topic. But when I came across this post and saw that you use the method of quoting Muhammad as saying he believed what was revealed to him was a lie by an evil jinn in witnessing to Muslims, I felt I should clarify what is actually taught. Based on my experience, whenever I have said something that was not quite right about Islam, the Muslim I am talking to has always been quick to correct my error. I feel it is important than when we use Islamic texts to witness to Muslims that we represent it as accurately as possible. I will be praying for your ministry among the Muslim community. 

 

I believe you have responded to me in the wrong thread and this belongs in “Muslims Coming to Christ.” Regardless, I want to address thT all my information of which you disagree with is from Muslim sources and experts on Islam like William Wagner. I learned that method of sharing the Gospel from a Muslim (“where is your Word,”) and the First Hadith does chronicle Muhammed’s Doubts. 

I have actually been in Islamic culture and been privy to their customs and talked with them in these matters and none of them called the Q’uran the Word of God. Isa is called the Word of God, “O Mary, indeed Allah gives you good tidings of a Word from him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the Son of Mary, distinguished in this world and Hereafter, and among those brought near to Allah.” (Quran 3:45). 

However, lest anyone think Muhammad means Isa (Jesus) in the same way we do as God and part of the Holy Trinity, Muhammad says this, “O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.” (Quean 4:171). 

On the contrary we Christians believe His is a Trinity, One God in Three Persons: 

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,” (Matthew 28:19) 

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me,” (John 15:26) 

“Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth,” (Genesis 1:26)

”According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you,” (1 Peter 1:2) 

“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace,” (Isiah 9:6) 

“Jesus Christ. For in him the whole fullness of deity (Godhead) dwells bodily,” (Colossians 2:9) 

“I and the Father are One,” and “Jesus then breathed on them and they received the Holy Spirit.” (John 10:30 and John 20:20-22). 

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.” (John 1:1-3) 

“And Mary said to the angel, “How will this be, since I am a virgin?” And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God.” (Luke 1:34-35)

This is one of many reasons the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is paramount. If a person does not confess God is the Trinity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, they agree with Muhammad and Islam, Mormonism, Copticisn, Jehovah Witnesses, and all religions of the earth which call Jesus prophet and messenger  God, but we Christians call Jesus God (Titus 2:13) and Son of God (1 John 4:15) and Oke with the Father and Holy Spirit, Blessed Trinity. 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

On 8/5/2018 at 1:56 PM, Fidei Defensor said:

I am not Roman Catholic, I am Protestant and hold to Sola Scriptura. That being said those outside the measure of Scripture sometimes say things in alignment with them. The most surprising advice I have found comes from a Pope: 

“Augustine’s second question: Since we hold the same Faith, why do customs vary in different churches? Why, for instance, does the method of saying the Mass differ in the Holy Roman Church and in the Churches of Ghaul? Pope Gregory’s reply: My brother , you are familiar with the usage of the Roman Church, in which you were brought up. But if you have found customs, whether Church of Rome or of Gaul or any other that may be more acceptable to God, I wish you to make careful selection of them, and teach the Church of the English, which is still young in the faith, whatever you have been able to learn with profit from various churches. For things should not be loved for the sake of places, but places for the sake of good things. Therefore, select from each of the Churches whatever things are devout, religious, and right; and when you have bound them, as it were, into a sheaf, let the minds of the English grow accustom to it.” (Pope Gregory’s Letter to S. Augustine, The Ecclesiastical History of the English People, Bede, pg 78-79, [I.27-], Penguin Classics, ISBN-13: 978-0-14-044565-7). 

I wish the Pope of today and RCs would apply this advice and take from our Protestant Churches: Solae Scriptura instead of Prima Scriptura, Bruce/Bullinger’s vies instead of Transubstantiation, Mary is but a woman instead of Redeematrix, Christ must be the focus not sin, and salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and His stoning work alone. If they would  adopt these reforms they would obey Pope Gregory, “But if you have found customs, whether Church of Rome or of Gaul or any other that may be more acceptable to God, I wish you to make careful selection of them, and teach the Church of the English, which is still young in the faith, whatever you have been able to learn with profit from various churches.” For it is more pleasing to God to be Solae Scriptura, and be saved by Christ alone and not works; for this is the Gospel (Romans 10:9-10, John 6:40, John 3:16, 1 John 4:15).