We Don't Do Sermons

[walla299]

55 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Hi Sojourner414, Good to get a some discussion from you on this subject. I'm sorry you feel insulted but when different worldviews and beliefs collide this happens. The Bible is full of people who were insulted and offended. Herod was so upset by John the Baptist he cast him into prison and had him executed to please his mistress. Many were insulted and offended and upset by the ministries of Jesus, Paul, Peter and Stephen et al etc. Catholics are insulted and offended when their doctrines and beliefs are challenged, so are Calvinists, Mormons, JW's, SDA, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

 

The biblical examples were generally because prophets, etc. were preaching the truth and someone didn't like it. The attitude displayed in some of your posts comes off as being from a "I'm/We're better than you" angle like in the OP of this thread. "How do you like them apples?" Really? That sounds like someone just being a jerk than anything else. Just an observation.

You're still advocating something that goes against the authority structure given to us by the Apostles in the NT. Its not being insulted when someone is on what appears to be a bad path and is trying to warn them of it. Some don't want to listen, and there are examples of that in the Bible too.

I'm sorry you went through the issues with your old congregation, but someone - even a pastor - who falls into sin does not mean every church or every pastor is going to do the same. It does not mean the "whole system" is necessarily evil and should be thrown out. We might be believers, but we're still sinners too, and anyone can take a fall into sin on this side of glory. I'm not condoning what happened to your church, but I understand how it can happen. We can all be tempted.

[Michael37]

56 minutes ago, Cletus said:

I do not want to comment on my opinion on my liking apples or not, however i would like to comment on what the bible says.

the bible is God breathed and it says, all scripture.  Contained with in this scripture it says we each have a part of Christ.  It also says some are called to be preachers.  Therefore, your church is missing out on a part of Christ. 

A good preacher, or should i say a preacher that preaches good, will edify thru preaching.  A pastor that is good will tend the flock, and usually do some good preaching too. 

I will add that these days most "pastors" I have encountered are just preaching and not doing to much "shepherding"  I have had only one preacher come knock on my door, and i have been to quite a few churches over the years.  So maybe, just maybe, yall are not missing out on much when compared to other churches. 

Hi Cletus, Yay to edification, we do it. We don't do an official name but we refer to the ekklesia at Ranui Street, or Ohaupo Road, or Billah Street an hour away. These are all places we frequent in no particular set pattern, just whomever is willing to host on any given occasion. We don't have an order of service or any formal prayers, but we do lots of praying. We constantly lay claim to 1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when you come together, every one of you has a psalm, has a doctrine, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

If anyone else regularly attends a gathering where the opportunity to completely fulfull this Scripture is always a given- well done, if not, too bad you're missing out on God's will for His ekklesia.

The idea, the concept, and the doctrine that God only speaks and edification only comes from sermonising is unbiblical, false, and corrupt.

1Co 2:1-5
(1)  And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
(2)  For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
(3)  And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
(4)  And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
(5)  That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, walla299 said:

The biblical examples were generally because prophets, etc. were preaching the truth and someone didn't like it. The attitude displayed in some of your posts comes off as being from a "I'm/We're better than you" angle like in the OP of this thread. "How do you like them apples?" Really? That sounds like someone just being a jerk than anything else. Just an observation.

Nah. I haven't put anyone down, not my gig, walla299, just discussed what we do and don't do and why. Ok, I'm into Proverbs that relate to online forums so check this one out...

Proverbs 25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

How do you like that Scripture? I've also posted about figs.

 

 

[Michael37]

4 hours ago, walla299 said:

You're still advocating something that goes against the authority structure given to us by the Apostles in the NT. Its not being insulted when someone is on what appears to be a bad path and is trying to warn them of it. Some don't want to listen, and there are examples of that in the Bible too.

Well let's get to the core truth on the matter of house gatherings and home fellowships, walla299. Are they biblical or not?

Matthew 13:36  Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. 

Obviously alright to expound on spiritual matters to a group in someone's house. OK with Jesus.

Acts 5:42  And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. 

Obviously alright for teaching and preaching to be done in every house. OK with the disciples.

Acts 12:12  And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying. 

Obviously alright for many to gather and pray in a house. OK with the occupants.

Acts 20:20  And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, 
Act 28:30-31
(30)  And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him,
(31)  Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Obviously alright for Paul to preach and teach (not sermonise) in houses. OK with those who were there.

Romans 16:3-5
(3)  Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: (4)  Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the ekklesiae of the Gentiles.(5)  Likewise greet the ekklesia that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.
1Corinthians 16:19
(19)  The ekklesiae of Asia salute you. Aquila and Priscilla salute you much in the Lord, with the ekklesia that is in their house.

Obviously alright for Aquila and Pricilla to have rhyming names and an ekklesia in their house(oikos). OK the Christians in Rome to greet them, and for their in-home ekklesia to greet the Christians in Corinth.

There is nothing in Scripture that forbids Christians to gather in their houses or homes for mutual edification, exhortation, and ministry, with all the spiritual gifts functioning including those of leadership. Paul despised hierarchical forms of control and referred to his companions and those he wrote to as yokefellows, fellowlabourers, and fellowsoldiers.

 I hope you like these apples, walla299.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Michael37
italicising

[Michael37]

28 minutes ago, Cletus said:

I never said thats the only way God speaks.  I actually do not prefer the traditional/institutional style church.  I have attended home churches and i have seen how The Holy Spirit is less quenched in that style, more free to move.  but the scripture you quoted 1 cor 14:26... it says has a doctrine.  thats a teaching.  and its still a preaching when its delivered.  Home churches i went to we still spoke like that if someone had something.  So i think really you still have sermons if you have this, its just not one person preparing for it every time. 

I do not think anything is wrong with how you are doing church, but if no one ever shares anything from the bible never reads from it or speaks about it sharing what God has given them, then you are missing out on a part of Christ.  if you do have this then it is a sermon.  maybe not an hour long, but it is what it is. 

Thanks for your reply, Cletus. Allow me to be amused by the thought that I or any of our core group could meet without the Word of God being quoted, referred to, and discussed if not read. These are all things that we are zealous to do to the point that even when we drop in on each other for a cup of tea during the week, the Holy Spirit refreshes us as if it were a full assembly, and the Scriptures flow from electronic devices or hard copy Bibles. Just stepping over the threshhold of my fellowlabourer's abode and being asked "How are you?", invokes a Scriptural response and from there the fellowship and edification just gets better.

I see from comments that I need to clarify the distinction we make between preaching and sermonising. 

PREACHING:

Strongs G2782

κήρυγμα
kērugma
kay'-roog-mah
From G2784; a proclamation (especially of the gospel; by implication the gospel itself): - preaching.
Total KJV occurrences: 8

SERMONISING:

via Old French from Latin sermō discourse, probably from serere to join together.

Proclaiming Christ to your cat on the run is preaching. 

Delivering a static formal formulaic oration to a tethered goat is sermonising.

There's a lot more I can say about this if required.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Michael37
emboldening

[Michael37]

5 hours ago, Davida said:

I met someone who attended one of those 'house churches' and what they showed was they did not accept teachings from anyone because they felt they knew it all. So I did one of these...

Do I detect a fallacy of composition in the wings, perhaps not...you might know better, Davida.

Ever met a Diotrophes...?

3Jn 1:9-10
(9)  I wrote unto the ekklesia: but Diotrephes, who loves to have the preeminence among them, receives us not.
(10)  Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he does, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither does he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddes them that would, and casts them out of the ekklesia.

Edited August 20, 2018 by Michael37
preference

[Michael37]

24 minutes ago, Cletus said:

However I do want to point out that Jesus gave sermon.  the sermon on the mount.  The words sermon and preaching can be used interchangeably.

I like what you've been posting. We discourage any legalism and dogmatism among ourselves, usually with humour and mirth. Occasionally someone not familiar with our spontaneity will misconstrue the freedom to speak as an opportunity to bring along a prepared written message expecting it to be the main event, and for them to be revered as the oracle and authority in all things pertaining to their topic. We handle it according to Galatians 6:1  Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, you which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering yourself, lest you also be tempted.  

The labelling of Christ's teaching on the mount as a sermon doesn't occur in Scripture as such but is so-called by convention. Not technically correct to my thinking.  

Edited August 20, 2018 by Michael37
addenda

[The_Patriot21]

ok.....my question is, so what if you dont do sermons? does that somehow make you better then everyone else, and if so how? I personally dont see anything wrong with how your church does things, but youve also failed to show any strong biblical issue with sermons...so if your post was intended to simply show how your church does things, thats great and informative, if not, and your just on a soapbox trying to show how much "better" your church is, you really have accomplished the exact opposite.

[Michael37]

3 minutes ago, Cletus said:

I think having elders and pastors has a place but when the assembly is mature enough that they dont need someone to hold their hand and they have the ability to get the same council and teaching... er sharing, what ever you would like to call it, what place does it have?  I think if people are honest with themselves and ask themselves concerning how they do their church meetings... just ask, am I my brothers keeper?  you will find most in the "traditional" style church is not.  They dont have that level of kononia.  most of them would not even recognize the greek word if spoken to them. 

I do not believe in going to church.  I believe we are the church. 

count your blessings.  I miss having church/fellowship like that. 

I recall a number of "sermons" from my pew-sitting days when the "pastor" in the "pulpit" had allowed himself to be "pulled into the pit".  The "sermons" were sympathy-seeking, emotion-focused diatribes all about how depressed and lonely they were, and how the congregation were to be blamed for burning them out. Sure there are tribulations, tests, trials and hardships for us all to face, and I've had my share of them, and have just about buckled under my ministry workload at times, but the problem of unrealistic expectations, unreasonable demands, and overwhelming burdens goes with the territory in a hierarchical model where "The Pastor" is the "alpha and omega" instead of Christ.

Dinner's ready...better log off.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

ok.....my question is, so what if you dont do sermons? does that somehow make you better then everyone else, and if so how? I personally dont see anything wrong with how your church does things, but youve also failed to show any strong biblical issue with sermons...so if your post was intended to simply show how your church does things, thats great and informative, if not, and your just on a soapbox trying to show how much "better" your church is, you really have accomplished the exact opposite.

Howzit going in Wyoming, Patriot2018...?

By the 4th century the influence of paganism within the Christian community due to new converts being reluctant to leave their customs behind led to rituals, robes, and orations being accepted as necessary in their meetings.  

2Peter 2:1-3
(1)  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
(2)  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
(3)  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
 

It is biblical to generate awareness of the discrepancies in the way Christians worship. People who accept anything because it is spoken from a pulpit or by a denominationally approved person are of course content to keep the status quo, but those who experience dissonance and discern disparities in the agendas of institutionally structured congregations are likely to go looking for an alternative. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Michael37
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