We Don't Do Sermons

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

Did you try 1 Timothy 3? Pretty much destroys your entire argument. With that, im out.

Yes, to whom it may concern, I am aware of 1 Timothy 3 and all the other instances where the English words like office and rule are an inaccurate translation. My late father and grandfather were titled Reverend, and further back an ancestor whose surname I share, was Bishop of Waltham in England. Growing up I mixed with several Bishops and Archbishops who of course were treated with the utmost respect and addressed as either "My Lord" or "Your Lordship" if a Bishop, and "Your Grace" if the Archbishop. The Archbishop with whom I was most familiar, and who on a number of occasions was our overnight guest, went on to become Governor - General of NZ and then NZ Ambassador to the USA.

 I have been out of the so-called Anglican communion since 1984. The hierarchical structure includes numerous high-ranking freemasons and my investigations uncovered some extremely occultic practices and unabashed Satanism among their order.

Being pilloried on this forum for dealing with a reprobate who confessed he enjoyed pornography and objectifying women so much that he was never going to stop doing it, regardless of the twice weekly addicts' anonymous meetings he attended and the countless hours of daily check-ins with his counsellor, and then being told that I am being reported for imagined breaches of forum rules reminds me of certain people my Lord and Saviour used a word beginning with "h" to describe.

However, I count it all joy and have no bitterness towards any such.

[The_Patriot21]

3 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Yes, to whom it may concern, I am aware of 1 Timothy 3 and all the other instances where the English words like office and rule are an inaccurate translation. My late father and grandfather were titled Reverend, and further back an ancestor whose surname I share, was Bishop of Waltham in England. Growing up I mixed with several Bishops and Archbishops who of course were treated with the utmost respect and addressed as either "My Lord" or "Your Lordship" if a Bishop, and "Your Grace" if the Archbishop. The Archbishop with whom I was most familiar, and who on a number of occasions was our overnight guest, went on to become Governor - General of NZ and then NZ Ambassador to the USA.

 I have been out of the so-called Anglican communion since 1984. The hierarchical structure includes numerous high-ranking freemasons and my investigations uncovered some extremely occultic practices and unabashed Satanism among their order.

Being pilloried on this forum for dealing with a reprobate who confessed he enjoyed pornography and objectifying women so much that he was never going to stop doing it, regardless of the twice weekly addicts' anonymous meetings he attended and the countless hours of daily check-ins with his counsellor, and then being told that I am being reported for imagined breaches of forum rules reminds me of certain people my Lord and Saviour used a word beginning with "h" to describe.

However, I count it all joy and have no bitterness towards any such.

Theres nothing innacurste, whatever term you use, be it bishop, Shepard, elder, deacon, overseer, the scripture clearly specifies someone needs to be in leadership over the church. The scriptures is black and white in that a fellowship needs led. What your church calls it is irrelevant as long as the person filling the position fulfills the requirements outlined in the Bible. If you do not have someone in that leadership role, that fulfills the biblical requirements then your church is in contradiction to the Bible, regardless of whether it does sermons or not. 

Your stance seems less in line with what God says, and more in line with the flesh, and mankinds inherent problem with authority.

[Michael37]

Quote

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"^[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.^[2]  [From Wkpd]

The words translated as office and rule are my focus here with regard to 1 Timothy 3 and 5, and Hebrews 13. In harmony with the teachings of Christ instead of what has been manipulated into the text by those influencing the translators , "those who serve",  and "those who guide", is the meaning in view.   

 Mar 10:42-45
(42)  But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
(43)  But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
(44)  And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
(45)  For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1Pe 5:1-4
(1)  The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
(2)  Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
(3)  Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
(4)  And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
 

I am happy to serve and guide according to these "apples of wisdom", which preclude things going pear shaped. ? 

[walla299]

4 hours ago, Michael37 said:

Being pilloried on this forum

  Thank you. I haven't seen the word pilloried used for quite awhile. The word has a certain strength to it that modern English misses, which is one reason I still like reading the KJV.

Here's the problem: You're not the victim here. Your OP set a certain tone, then you expanded on it by advocating things that are clearly against the NT teachings on church structure, and you seem frustrated that folks keep pointing that out. There's a reason for that. Its because its true and no amount of playing the victim will make it untrue.

[Michael37]

1 hour ago, walla299 said:

  Thank you. I haven't seen the word pilloried used for quite awhile. The word has a certain strength to it that modern English misses, which is one reason I still like reading the KJV.

Here's the problem: You're not the victim here. Your OP set a certain tone, then you expanded on it by advocating things that are clearly against the NT teachings on church structure, and you seem frustrated that folks keep pointing that out. There's a reason for that. Its because its true and no amount of playing the victim will make it untrue.

It's not that I'm frustrated or playing the victim, walla299, or that I want to frustrate anyone else or cause them to feel victimised so please let's not get carried away with hyperbole. I have a liberty in Christ to make observations that are relevant to the discussion of His kingdom and I am happy to discuss house meetings for as long as He inspires me. Thank you for bearing with me as I seek to persuade that Home fellowships are biblical and are a matter of record in the NT and historical archives.

The early Christian apologist Justin Martyr lived from 100AD to 165AD and when a Prefect named Rusticus asked him "Where do you assemble?" ,Justin replied, "Where each one chooses, and can, - or do you fancy that we all meet in the very same place? Not so, because the God of the Christians is not circumscribed by place."

From Christianity.com

Quote

Justin ardently defended the Christian faith against pagans, Jews, and heretics. He taught in Rome at the house of Martinus on the Via Tiburtine and wrote works which equipped Christians for generations to come. His Apology, written about 150 and addressed to Emperor Antoninus Pius, appealed for justice and liberty for Christians. Christianity was a persecuted minority in Justin's day, and his Apology showed the reasonableness of Christian truth. After refuting baseless accusations against Christians, such as that they had cannibalistic rituals and engaged in gross immorality, Justin contrasted the moral power of Christ's teaching with irrational pagan fables. Justin appealed to the emperor: "if these things seem to you to be reasonable and true, honor them; but if they seem nonsensical, despise them as nonsense, and do not decree death against them who have done no wrong...For we forewarn you, that you shall not escape the coming judgment of God..."

 

[Michael37]

Just a quick rebutal before I log off to dine, Sojourner414

10 minutes ago, Sojourner414 said:

 

you've named yourself an elder in a "church" of your own making, by your own authority, and decided that God rubber-stamped it for you.

This is not true. The ekklesia was in place for 5 years before I was invited to join, and its founder is still credentialed with the NZ AOG who for reasons best known to their organisation, want to keep his name on their books even though he declines to pay their annual $200 credential maintenance fee normally required. If I am an elder it is because the oversight recognise me in that function, not for any other reason you might mistakenly suppose.

Monologue? Don't know what gives you that idea, but hardly a monologue.

[The_Patriot21]

Actually no one has liberty in Christ, to spread false teachings. The Bible has strong words about those who do so.

[walla299]

9 hours ago, Michael37 said:

It's not that I'm frustrated or playing the victim, walla299, or that I want to frustrate anyone else or cause them to feel victimised so please let's not get carried away with hyperbole. I have a liberty in Christ to make observations that are relevant to the discussion of His kingdom and I am happy to discuss house meetings for as long as He inspires me. Thank you for bearing with me as I seek to persuade that Home fellowships are biblical and are a matter of record in the NT and historical archives.

The early Christian apologist Justin Martyr lived from 100AD to 165AD and when a Prefect named Rusticus asked him "Where do you assemble?" ,Justin replied, "Where each one chooses, and can, - or do you fancy that we all meet in the very same place? Not so, because the God of the Christians is not circumscribed by place."

From Christianity.com

 

Sorry, but the location the church meets in is not the issue here. The issue is the unbiblical lack of structure you are advocating. Again: it goes against everything taught on the subject in the NT. On the rest, it seems others beat me to it. Have a nice night.

 

[Michael37]

3 hours ago, Yowm said:

What is proclaiming Christ to a tethered goat?

A waste of time if it doesn't repent of being a goat and become a sheep. 

[Michael37]

20 hours ago, The_Patriot2018 said:

Actually no one has liberty in Christ, to spread false teachings. The Bible has strong words about those who do so.

Thanks for your interest in this thread, Patriot2018. I respectfully submit that the false teaching in focus is that Home fellowships are unbiblical. I recall coming across a Youtube video of "a sermon" from "a pulpit" before "an audience" who where being treated to a list of reasons why Home fellowships  were unbiblical. There was nothing that could be validated in Scripture and the rant was evidence of the error known as "heavy shepherding" plus the fear of losing tithes.