An Atheist's Objections to The Bible/Theism

[nebula]

I don't mean to this in any type of contemptuous way but do you believe the story of Jack and the beanstalk to be true? How about Beowolf? I'm just curious how you come to the conclusion that one story is true and another is not.

Jesus was indeed an historical figure. Most historians accept this.

That's a big difference between Jesus and Jack and the Beanstalk and Beowolf.

And BTW - most of us who are Christians are so because of our experience. That is, we know our lives have been changed since following Him. Call that what you will, but we aren't ostriches with our heads in the sand.

Did you know the hymn "It Is Well with My Soul" was written by a man standing over the place where all his children had died?

That kind of comfort and hope doesn't just come from some psychological phenomenon or trick of the brain.

[Bread_of_Life]

Let me defend Foglight here. Jack and the Beanstalk is a story where the atheists and theists on the board share a common belief. That belief is that the story is fictional. That means that Jack and the Beanstalk is an excellent starting point for a mutual discussion about how we know if stories are true or not, on what criteria we judge their truth or falsehood, it is a reference case on which we both agree the answer. This does not mean comparing the bible to jack and the beanstalk.

Similarly, I use leprechauns and fairies at the bottom of the garden as a reference entity that we all agree doesn't exist, to explore various epistemological points. It doesn't mean I'm comparing God to a Leprechaun as I am often accused, they are very different entities alltogether. What it does mean is that I have started an epistemological discussion on an object we all agree doesn't exist, to find out about what criteria of evidence we have, or why we believe that things do or don't exist. These are valid forms of argument, and as far as I am concerned, are only insulting to those that fundamentally misunderstand them.

[ayin jade]

Your post reminds me just how wonderful and awesome God really is!!

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

HMMM?

Jack and the beanstalks central figure never ever calls Himself God. I do not seem to recall Jack making claims that He was in fact sinless? Or even challenging people to prove it?

Fog,

You knew exactly what you were doing by trying to drag this young one down. It is quite arrogant of you to call into question this ones Faith simply because you have none. I am in agreement with Wayne on this one.

Let's examine your statement?

The comment was made in reaction to her statement which implied that she probably never examined her belief

How do you know?

"I can't explain any of it, but I don't need too, I know that these things happened because God is awesome!!" Which to me reads as "I don't know why I believe in THIS god, I just do."

Let me expalin something to you.

One Word from God and your life will be changed. Changed irrevocably forever. One encounter with Jesus and His beauty and you will fall on your face and worship Him in Repentance. You have no choice. Then you will know without a doubt that He is God and King.

You see again, He is looking for a heart that by Faith will completely Love Him. His eyes are searching to and fro for a heart that is completely His. He lives and dwells in a High and Holy place with the Humble, Contrite, and the Poor.

Humble, Lowly, modest, meek, submissive.

Contrite, broken, worn, rubbed, filled with grief over their sin.

Poor, for they have nothing to offer Him.

Again I submit to you? Will you examine the claims of Christ? Will you look deep into that place your fear?

He claimed to be sinless and even challenged openly His accusers. That includes you my dear friend.

He told folks that He Himself was God. That He Himself could forgive sins and redeem men. Do you believe Him?

Please I'm gonna ask nicely even? Do not place your own lack of Faith before others claims of such.

Peace,

Dave

[Guest lily]

QUOTE

"I can't explain any of it, but I don't need too, I know that these things happened because God is awesome!!"

Which to me reads as "I don't know why I believe in THIS god, I just do."

The reason why I believe in THIS God, is because no other god sent His only begotten Son to die for my sins.

There are many things that I may not be able to explain from the bible, but because I believe in God and His Word, I believe everything that He says. I know that with God anything is possible. Now, if I didn't believe in God, then I would probably want to know how exactly He got all those animals on the ark, or how exactly He made Eve from Adam's rib, but since I do believe in God, I don't need to know those details. I question what people teach to see if it holds up to what God says, but I don't question what God says, if He said that's what happened, that's what happened.

[Fiosh]

Your post reminds me just how wonderful and awesome God really is!!

[Gerioke]

Thank you Lily, that's all I was asking. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you used that emoticon all the time you would probably get less flack from certain people

[WayneB]

Let me defend Foglight here. Jack and the Beanstalk is a story where the atheists and theists on the board share a common belief. That belief is that the story is fictional. That means that Jack and the Beanstalk is an excellent starting point for a mutual discussion about how we know if stories are true or not, on what criteria we judge their truth or falsehood, it is a reference case on which we both agree the answer. This does not mean comparing the bible to jack and the beanstalk.

Similarly, I use leprechauns and fairies at the bottom of the garden as a reference entity that we all agree doesn't exist, to explore various epistemological points. It doesn't mean I'm comparing God to a Leprechaun as I am often accused, they are very different entities alltogether. What it does mean is that I have started an epistemological discussion on an object we all agree doesn't exist, to find out about what criteria of evidence we have, or why we believe that things do or don't exist. These are valid forms of argument, and as far as I am concerned, are only insulting to those that fundamentally misunderstand them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nick, I disagree. They are NOT valid forms of argument apologetically speaking because they have nothing in common at all with one another. Regardless, I will openly admit that although I enjoy philosophical discussions, I am not experienced in epistemological methodology (nor do I care to be). I never took philosophy but rather stuck to mathematics and engineering.

Therefore, I and many of those who post here find it insulting to draw ANY and ALL comparisons of God or His Word to any recognized fairy tale, whether it be leprechauns, fairies, beanstalks or whatever. The only purpose intended by most of those who draw those comparisons is to undermine the credibility of the Word of God. It is NOT for serious discussion and honest debate.

Therefore my friends, so we have no further misunderstandings, I ask once again. Refrain from using those comparisons and look to other methods to express your thoughts. It would be very much appreciated. Regardless, that is NOT up for debate.

God Bless you all,

Wayne

[WayneB]

Thank you Lily, that's all I was asking.

[WayneB]

throughout my message I tried to be obsequious, ingratiating and self-effacing but apparently it wasn't enough for you. Sorry! 

It wasn't enough but I accept your apology. Now that we recognize what is acceptable and where the line has been drawn, we can move on with the discussion. This may be the Outer Court but it is still in the Temple area and there are certain expectations, which we ALL (undecided and believer alike) are expected to adhere to.

Bless you Fog!

Wayne