Judas Iscariot

[warrior12]

12 hours ago, Giller said:

Act 1:15-17

(15)  And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

(16)  Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

(17)  For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

 

Judas did obtain part in Christ's ministry and was used of God at one time, but later fell.

Here is a take on some online bible teachers/scholars that are their views and not mine.  Just pointing out what others have to say.
 

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved?

 

Question: "Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved?"

Answer: The Bible clearly indicates that Judas was not saved. Jesus Himself said of Judas, “The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But woe to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had not been born” (Matthew 26:24). Here is a clear picture of the sovereignty of God and the will of man working together. God had, from ages past, determined that Christ would be betrayed by Judas, die on the cross for our sins, and be resurrected. This is what Jesus meant when He said He would “go just as it is written about him.” Nothing would stop the plan of God to provide salvation for mankind.

However, the fact that it was all foreordained does not excuse Judas or absolve him from the punishment he would suffer for his part in the drama. Judas made his own choices, and they were the source of his own damnation. Yet the choices fit perfectly into the sovereign plan of God. God controls not only the good, but also the evil of man to accomplish His own ends. Here we see Jesus condemning Judas, but considering that Judas travelled with Jesus for nearly three years, we know He also gave Judas ample opportunity for salvation and repentance. Even after his dreadful deed, Judas could have fallen on his knees to beg God’s forgiveness. But he did not. He may have felt some remorse born of fear, which caused him to return the money to the Pharisees, but he never repented, preferring instead to commit suicide (Matthew 27:5-8).

In John 17:12, Jesus prays concerning His disciples, “While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.” At one time, though, Judas believed that Jesus was a prophet, or possibly even believed He was the Messiah. Jesus sent the disciples out to proclaim the gospel and perform miracles (Luke 9:1-6). Judas was included in this group. Judas had faith, but it was not a true saving faith. Judas was never “saved,” but for a time he was a follower of Christ.

Recommended Resource: On Judas Iscariot by Warren Wiersbe

https://www.gotquestions.org/Judas-saved.html

[Dennis1209]

7 hours ago, Giller said:

I would understand why gotquestions would say such a thing because of the views they hold on to.

Now in the end, I do not believe that Judas was saved, but he was called a disciple when he first followed Jesus, and I believe that he truly did follow Jesus, but later he hardened his heart and fell away from God.

It was the ultimate betrayal, someone who actually knew Christ , lived with the Messiah, and yet betray him like this, no wonder the bible says that it had been better for him to have not been born.

All 12 were given the ability to cast out devils and so forth:

Mat 10:5-8
(5)  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6)  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(7)  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(8)  Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

All 12 were part of Christ's ministry, it is just the way it is.

I can quote tons of scholars or preachers who will say the opposite of gotquestions.

And we all know that there is a scholar basically for most views.
 

Hey Giller!

I think the below verse is also a supporting verse.

Acts 1:25 (KJV) That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.

Where do you suppose is meant by "his own place"? I don't recall that being said about anyone else in scripture, do you?

[Unfailing Presence]

21 hours ago, Giller said:

Act 1:15-17

(15)  And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

(16)  Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

(17)  For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

 

Judas did obtain part in Christ's ministry and was used of God at one time, but later fell.

Are  you speaking of his being , " used of God " ,  to betray Jesus ?

[warrior12]

Please, someone help me to comprehend the following scripture verses that plainly outlined [ to me] that Judas could not have repented after he betrayed Jesus.  Some have said here " only if he had come to Jesus and repented " and in that case he could have been forgiven.  what I am getting from these verses is that Jesus is plainly saying that the one who betrays him, is lost forever.   Judas asked clearly if it was him and Jesus responded with a resounding "Yes". 

So then, how come could Judas have repented.  I think he remembered this conversation and saw there was no redemption for him.  Scripture points to Jesus as the one who forgives man of their sins, no question about that. But this statement below as I read it anyway, plainly states, Judas was doomed once he committed the betrayal.   Otherwise, how could scripture be fulfilled, it could not.  

I used the Amplified Bible as to further reduce the explanation as much as I could.

Matthew 26 Amplified Bible (AMP)

 ²³ Jesus answered, “He who has dipped his hand in the bowl with Me [as a ^[j]pretense of friendship] will betray Me.

²⁴ The Son of Man is to go [to the cross], just as it is written [in Scripture] of Him; but woe (judgment is coming) to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.” ²⁵ And Judas, the betrayer, said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” Jesus said to him, “^[k]You have said it yourself.”

[Dennis1209]

6 hours ago, Giller said:

Well I checked it out about "his own place", and here is what John Gill says about this:

(John Gill)

(...that he might go to his own place; which may be understood of Judas, and of his going to hell, as the just punishment of his sin;...)

 

Also Jimmy Swaggart says this, concerning "his own place":

(Jimmy Swaggart)

(self-will will take one to eternal hell, even as it did Judas)

 

And I love what Jimmy says about the part that says how Judas by transgression fell, here is what he says:

(Jimmy Swaggart)

(tells us plainly that Judas once knew the Lord, for how can one fall from something to which one has never attained)

Yes. Barnes, Clarke, Coke, Ellicott, Calvin and Gill all agree 'his own place' is Hell. I just wanted to point out another scripture about the question posed, was Judas saved or not. 

[Unfailing Presence]

8 hours ago, Giller said:

14 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

Are  you speaking of his being , " used of God " ,  to betray Jesus ?

No not in this case, but rather used of God in Christ's ministry.

And here is another scripture:

Mat 10:1
(1)  And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

If you read Jesus's full instruction to them this " power "  was not given carte blanche . 

A little short sighted not to read the quite lengthy qualifications Jesus attached to this " power "

Just as Jesus offers salvation to ALL .

Yet  ALL are not saved .

One of the first qualifications was they were to have no concern for money : 

                                                             " Provide neither GOLD, nor SILVER , nor BRASS in your purses ."

Yet we know that Judas loved money and was a thief . 

Yes the " power " Jesus offered He offered to them all . 

Then the ball was in each of their own courts 

[warrior12]

23 hours ago, Giller said:

I would understand why gotquestions would say such a thing because of the views they hold on to.

Now in the end, I do not believe that Judas was saved, but he was called a disciple when he first followed Jesus, and I believe that he truly did follow Jesus, but later he hardened his heart and fell away from God.

It was the ultimate betrayal, someone who actually knew Christ , lived with the Messiah, and yet betray him like this, no wonder the bible says that it had been better for him to have not been born.

All 12 were given the ability to cast out devils and so forth:

Mat 10:5-8
(5)  These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
(6)  But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(7)  And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
(8)  Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

All 12 were part of Christ's ministry, it is just the way it is.

I can quote tons of scholars or preachers who will say the opposite of gotquestions.

And we all know that there is a scholar basically for most views.
 

Let us imagine for a moment.  As scripture says, when a man is born again he is a new creation in Christ.  Judas being born again, and indwelt with the holy spirit, then witnessing Jesus walk on water and allowing Peter to do likewise would be awestruck I would imagine and see the genuine Deity of Christ.  As you said, he would have been given the power to cast out demons and do miraculous feats as given to the disciples .   Now this was living proof before his eyes and for Judas to give up or forsake the kingdom for 30 pieces of silver would have been unthinkable.     We, here and now has blind faith, that is without seeing and being a living witness to all that Jesus did.  Judas was there live and direct.  Either he had a corrupted or possessive spirit with him all the while he was there or was dumb plain and foolish which if so he would not have been chosen.   

I think there is much more to this situation that we just don't know and have to admit that .    

There is a parallel to this story, except that the outcome was a bit different.  Remember Lot.  I have read many articles that condemn Lot after all the things he had done, yet Peter called him a righteous man, and this is hunderds of years after that time.  2 Peter 2:7-8

Edited September 18, 2018 by warrior12

[Unfailing Presence]

1 hour ago, Giller said:

2 hours ago, Unfailing Presence said:

One of the first qualifications was they were to have no concern for money : 

                                                             " Provide neither GOLD, nor SILVER , nor BRASS in your purses ."

It does not show at all at this point that Judas was given over to the love of money, no evidence whatsoever till later on

But you agree that  like the salvation that is available to all ,  according to Jesus  there were conditions to be met in order to activate  the special " power" He offered to them  ?

[warrior12]

 

1 hour ago, Giller said:

We cannot assume that he had a corrupted or possessive spirit all the while he was there, but at some point it no doubt became corrupted, he was not called an apostle for nothing, God does not make mistakes.

And yes he saw all the miracles and so forth and still got corrupted, yes that is amazing why someone would allow themselves to be corrupted in such a manner, but remember the Israelites in the wilderness, they saw the Red sea open, and all the ten plagues and yet many had still hardened hearts towards God.

Judas went to the rulers and showed remorse there.  He surely would know what repentance was all about and would have been teaching it if indeed he was saved.  Why then, would he go the rulers to show remorse.  If he had hardened his heart, then why would he have any remorse at all.  If indeed he knew the Lord as his personal savior, then I can only imagine it is whom he would go to ask for forgiveness.    Did the KJV get this wrong as in the OP question or what .  

Please note.  I really don't have the answers and is only asking the question that comes to mind about the situation that Judas found himself in.  

Matthew 27 King James Version (KJV)

³ Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

⁴ Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

Edited September 18, 2018 by warrior12

[Unfailing Presence]

Judas's maneuvered his way into being charge of the money from the very beginning because therein was what he loved and treasured :

                              " ..he was a thief , and had the bag . "   ( John 12 : 6)

He never cared for others , ever : 

                                                                   "..not that he cared for the poor ." ( John 12 : 6 )

His masquerade obviously did not fool everyone .

The only way one could have witnessed   3 years worth Lazarus raised from the dead  type miracles , and then desired to be satisfied by nothing more than the creature comforts of this

world money can buy is if the cistern they drink from never contained  the Water of Life to begin with .

                                                                                        " The Lord is my strength and song . "  ( Psalm 118 : 14 )