Is Predestination Biblical?

[Guest 1sheep]

2 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

God is fair, God is Justice personified. Why would he only let a select few benefit from Christs Gospel and sacrifice? How do people know if they are the elect? It doesnt make sense to me when reading the Gospels. Why would people preach worldwide if they dont need to and God can just give them a list? In fact, why preach at all if there is no need, as the ones who will be saved will be saved anyway?

 

I dont get it.

Our idea of fair or justice is not necessarily Gods idea of fair and just. God does everything to Glorify Himself. This side of heaven we will not understand everything. We see through the glsss dimly. 

We spread the gospel because God has commaded us to. 

They are elect because God is all knowing and he knew before we were born what our whole lufe would look like including comibg to Chridt or not coming to Christ.

The select few is not in contradiction with the FEW who take the narrow road. 

[Robert William]

42 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

God is fair, God is Justice personified. Why would he only let a select few benefit from Christs Gospel and sacrifice? How do people know if they are the elect? It doesnt make sense to me when reading the Gospels. Why would people preach worldwide if they dont need to and God can just give them a list? In fact, why preach at all if there is no need, as the ones who will be saved will be saved anyway?

 

I dont get it.

maryjane, because we don't know who the predestined elect are we preach to all.

A predestined elect is born from above at their appointed time, they then need to hear the gospel in order to know what to believe.

Because the natural man considers the gospel to be foolishness, he/she must first be born from above.

1Co 2:14　 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.　

Many start on a false premise and think humans deserve the love of God YHWH is very gracious to choose a few to be saved.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Robert William

[Dennis1209]

18 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

right, so we have free will in our here and now as to whether to take up the call.

However, God, being outside time and the Alpha and Omega, has seen what we would call the future, so knows the outcome of His call. Thanks.

I thought people were talking about certain groups or people being excluded for the opportunity.

Greetings maryjayne,

My view closely mirrors your own. The Lord's created beings angels / humans were not created puppets of yes objects, but given free will to choose and accept the Lord or not. We have many instances where the Lord used people for His own purposes, even without their knowing (King Cyrus comes to mind first). God is omniscient, knows the beginning from the end, therefore knows the choices we will make from the foundation of the world. 

God is willing that none should perish. So in my mind, predestination is biblical in the sense of God's foreknowledge of the choices that will be made.

[Robert William]

22 hours ago, bryan said:

It seems some of the points in the OP have been demonstrated in this thread.

OH no, not another who has hatred towards me, if you don't love scripture then don't respond.

I thought this was supposed to be a Christian site.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Robert William

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, Robert William said:

Omegaman, quoting from the Old about that subject is not convincing since we are now in a New Covenant and the Old is obsolete.

I am not sure what you are referrencing there, but Jesus and the the epistles quote the Old frequently to illustrate what they are saying in the new. The old, about which Jesus said:

For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

that is what then, irrelevant?

When He said:

"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "

was He mistaken?

The law is not obsolete, it reveals what a person would have to do, to obtain righteousness on thier own, but none of us can. Instead, it is a mirror that reflects back to us, how sinful we are.

Thankfully, we are not under the law, but under grace. Thankfully, we are righteous, because Jesus imparted His righteousness to the saved. Thankfully, we understand that it is the Spirit that counts, not the letter. 

Quote

My understanding of that subject comes from thirty years of prayer and study of the Canon of 66 books.

. . . and mine comes from 40 years of doing the same. If numbers mean anything about truth, then my understanding is 133% better than yours. So is that a valuable thing to express? I cannot help but wonder, if you think that the old is obsolete, why you do not mostly ignore those 39 "old" books.

In any case, that was not the point, the point is that you are being quite judgmental and critical, of people who are not your inferiors, all I did was suggest that you try to be kind. Also, there is no need to get personal with them, they are not the topic, debate the topic, not the person.

So, why am I addressing you here and not the topic of predestination? I do that, because you are one the verge of finding yourself restricted in you posting. It is instructive for other, to learn from you mistakes about how to behave properly on the forums. Perhaps in this way, others can see what to avoid, and see that we take the behavior of members seriously, and are willing to do something about it.

They can also see that we are patient, but that patience has it's limits. It might or it might not interest you to know, that there have been 6 complaints about your behavior toward other posters, just today, and the day is not over yet. I suggest re-evaluating your conduct, but do not take too long to do so.

[Robert William]

3 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I am not sure what you are referrencing there, but Jesus and the the epistles quote the Old frequently to illustrate what they are saying in the new. The old, about which Jesus said:

For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

is what then, irrelevant?

When He said:

"Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. "

was He mistaken?

The law is not obsolete, it reveals what a person would have to do, to obtain righteousness on there one, but, non of us can. Instead, it is a mirror that reflects back to us, how sinful we are.

Thankfully, we are not under the law, but under grace. Thankfully, we are righteous, because Jesus imparted His righteousness to the saved. Thankfully, we understand that it is the Spirit that counts, not the letter. 

. . . and mine comes from 40 years of doing the same. If numbers mean anything about truth, then my understanding is 133% better than yours. So is that a valuable thing to express? I cannot help but wonder, if you think that the old is obsolete, why you do not mostly ignore those 39 "old" books.

In any case, that was not the point, the point is that you are being quite judgmental and critical, of people who are not your inferiors, all I did was suggest that you try to be kind. Also, there is not need to get personal with them, they are not the topic, debate the topic, not the person.

So, why am I addressing you here and not the topic of predestination? I do that, because you are one the verge of finding yourself restricted in you posting. It is instructive for other, to learn from you mistakes about how to behave properly on the forums. Perhaps in this way, others can see what to avoid, and see that we take the behavior of members seriously, and are willing to do something about it.

They can also see that we are patient, but that patience has it's limits. It might, or it might not interest you to know, that there have been 6 complaints about your behavior toward other posters, just today, and the day is not over yet. I suggest re-evaluating your conduct, but do not take to long to do so.

I'm sure if you review my posts you will see that there are some who are showing hatred towards for no good reason, thanks, I enjoy speaking with you.

[Omegaman 3.0]

I do not disagree that there is some angst, and it is not one sided. I hope also, that they will learn from this dialogue with you and see if it applies to them also. They are also, guilty of getting to focused on others, NOT the topic, and it is not unnoticed.

I do not want to discourage people from using the report feature, as it is a valuable tool for us mods, to be made aware of what problems are happening on the forums, hopefully we can head some of that off.

4 minutes ago, Robert William said:

'm sure if you review my posts you will see that there are some who are showing hatred towards for no good reason, thanks, I enjoy speaking with you. 

I enjoy speaking with you too Robert, but not everyone has equally thick skins here, and we need to keep that in mind. I personally see debate, as a positive thing, but when egos get involved, or things start to heat up a little, people stop hearing each other, and just start reacting to each other. Then, learning stops.

I learn a lot from people who disagree with me, sometimes I change my mind, sometimes I don't. Maybe on somethings, I am not ready to change, but God will convict me later.

Let's all just be civil, not not get too invested in having to be right, and more invested in being kind to one another, and edifying the body of Christ for His sake.

[Omegaman 3.0]

Alright, I just received as message from a poster here in this thread, who asked if they are out of line. For the sake of everyone, allow me to share how I replied:

Quote

 

I am over passionate also, I totally understand where that comes from. Don't worry about what you have done or not done. Just be mindful for the future. The fact that you have even asked the question, is encouraging.

I would just counsel you to be mindful for the future. Passion is good, I just think of that as enthusiasm. To me, that SHOULD motivate us to respond, but we all fail in patience, self control, and love at times.

Try this:

Before you hit that "Submit Reply" button, stop, take a breath, and ask Jesus to look over you post as you check for grammar and spelling errors, then try to discern, if you think Jesus would reply as you just did. If you think He would approve, THEN submit it, and you will do great! 

Eph 4:15 but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.

 

 

[Guest 1sheep]

3 hours ago, maryjayne said:

dont all humans deserve the love of God and the chance to be saved?

We all DESERVE death.

[n2thelight]

6 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

It's all false teaching.   Pay him no mind.

Why did Christ interfere with Paul?

You can say what you want,but it's fact