Woman of Revelation 12

[dhchristian]

3 hours ago, simplejeff said:

Why say that ?  (even if "you could")....  I don't think those distinctions are helpful, nor accurate Biblically.

Rather,  as in ACTS,  as also throughout the last 2000 years when faithful Ekklesia were found,  "FOLLOW JESUS".

And also, as Jesus says,  who is My family ?   WHOEVER HEARS the WORD OF THE FATHER,  AND DOES IT.

With men, this is impossible, but as Jesus says,  if we trust the heavenly Father to accomplish our salvation,  in this life and the next,   it is already done.   If we trust ourselves to accomplish it, we have already failed.

This Israelites called the time before the  Law the time of the Fathers, and Abraham was the father of us all. Jacob Blessed his sons the 12 tribes of Israel, and the time of the sons culminated with Son of God. The Church began at Pentecost with coming of the Holy Ghost, It will culminate with the sons of God being revealed, Those Born of the Spirit (read Romans 8). 

I Found this helpful in understanding the last prophecy of the Old Testament. Also It is a beautiful expression of the triune Godhead in his Creation. 

Re: the assembly. The way I see it, In rev. the Church is no longer mentioned but the saints, the called out ones, are. I Think you are saying the same thing as I am?  

Edited July 3, 2019 by dhchristian

[dhchristian]

5 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Leonard Ravenhill - Grace Gems!
https://www.gracegems.org/30/leonard_ravenhill_quotes.htm
Leonard Ravenhill (1907 – 1994). I went to a church not ... I doubt if 5% of professing Christians in America are born again! ~ ~ ~ ~ Entertainment is the devil's …

Good stuff, Love Ravenhill, Him and Tozer, The two witnesses of their day. One spoke well, the other wrote well. 

[simplejeff]

11 minutes ago, dhchristian said:

Re: the assembly. The way I see it, In rev. the Church is no longer mentioned but the saints, the called out ones, are. I Think you are saying the same thing as I am?  

Probably not.   "The saints" , I think, usually refers to , in the United States,   church goers.    Church goers usually have nothing to do with Ekklesia. (Instead, church goers and the authorities in the church will kill Ekklesia when they can and the  church people think they are doing (their) god a favor by doing this.  The church(es) have often used secular military or police forces to do this,  proudly as if not to get their own hands dirty..... while the inside of the cup is full of abominations!

[dhchristian]

46 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Probably not.   "The saints" , I think, usually refers to , in the United States,   church goers.    Church goers usually have nothing to do with Ekklesia. (Instead, church goers and the authorities in the church will kill Ekklesia when they can and the  church people think they are doing (their) god a favor by doing this.  The church(es) have often used secular military or police forces to do this,  proudly as if not to get their own hands dirty..... while the inside of the cup is full of abominations!

The church consists of the saints and the faithful in Christ Jesus. (Eph 1:1) The saints are chosen by lot, not by merit (2 Peter 1:1; see def. of Obtained). The saints stand in the gap between the persecution of the world and the Bride, hence the garment the bride wears is the righteousness of the saints. The Protestant reformation threw out the distinction between saints and the faithful as a reaction to the heretical veneration and prayers to the saints, thus making them a mediator between God and man in place of Jesus. In Doing so, they scrambled the understanding of who the chosen are (many are called few are chosen) and thus you get errors such as Calvinism, As well as not enabling those who are chosen to make their election and calling sure (2 Peter 1). 

The church is no longer mentioned in Revelation after chapter 4, but the saints are. What this means is one of the following:

1 The church of the Faithful are raptured, while the saints remain.

2 The church goes into apostacy and all that remains is the saints.

3. The church remains, but only the saints face the persecutions therein. 

4. The church is raptured (Saints and faithful) and the saints become saints during the tribulation (tribulation saints/ Left Behind concept)

 

I tend to lean towards a combination of 1 and 2. We have yet to ask who is the Bride of Christ.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, Abdicate said:

To the world, a "Christian" is one that is not Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. It does not mean "one who believes Jesus the Christ as their savior." 

You mean the world does not know and call themselves heathens?

[simplejeff]

1 TIMOTHY 2:5 KJV "For [there is] one God, and one mediator ...

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/1-Timothy-2-5/

5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[dhchristian]

Just now, iamlamad said:

2 hours ago, Abdicate said:

To the world, a "Christian" is one that is not Jewish, Muslim, or Buddhist. It does not mean "one who believes Jesus the Christ as their savior." 

You mean the world does not know and call themselves heathens?

He is saying that because though the stats made by worldly people say 1/3 of the pop. is Christian, the true number is far less, as that number includes sects such as Mormons, JW's, Roman Catholics, etc, many of whom are not Born again. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, dhchristian said:

The church consists of the saints and the faithful in Christ Jesus. (Eph 1:1) The saints are chosen by lot, not by merit (2 Peter 1:1; see def. of Obtained). The saints stand in the gap between the persecution of the world and the Bride, hence the garment the bride wears is the righteousness of the saints. The Protestant reformation threw out the distinction between saints and the faithful as a reaction to the heretical veneration and prayers to the saints, thus making them a mediator between God and man in place of Jesus. In Doing so, they scrambled the understanding of who the chosen are (many are called few are chosen) and thus you get errors such as Calvinism, As well as not enabling those who are chosen to make their election and calling sure (2 Peter 1). 

The church is no longer mentioned in Revelation after chapter 4, but the saints are. What this means is one of the following:

1 The church of the Faithful are raptured, while the saints remain.

2 The church goes into apostacy and all that remains is the saints.

3. The church remains, but only the saints face the persecutions therein. 

4. The church is raptured (Saints and faithful) and the saints become saints during the tribulation (tribulation saints/ Left Behind concept)

 

I tend to lean towards a combination of 1 and 2. We have yet to ask who is the Bride of Christ.

There is a 5th alternative: The church (the REAL church), remains on earth until the rapture at the 6th seal, but the Holy Spirit did not need to reference the church in the seals or later, not until chapter 22 when John wraps up the book.  John mentions the prayers of the saints in 5:8 so that is mostly likely the prayers of the saints who make up the church.  The prayers of the saints are again mentioned in chapter 8 before any of the trumpet judgments. l  suspect these are prayers that the church prayed before the rapture - but it also could be the prayers of those left behind.

Saints are mentioned again in chapter 11, but in a prophecy and concerning the rewards given to the saints.  In chapter 13 the saints are mentioned and it is clear there these are new saints after the rapture.  Saints are mentioned again in chapter 14  - that they have patience to survive the days of GT or patience to become a martyr.

[dhchristian]

Just now, dhchristian said:

Roman Catholics

There may be some Roman Catholics that are born again, but very few. I just want to correct this so it is not a generalization, because I know some that are. 

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, dhchristian said:

Now how many of those are truly Born again, not just Christian in name only? I Guarantee you the number is decreasing for the doctrine of repentance is no longer being preached in a majority of those churches. Many of your mainstream churches today teach that repentance is Work, But it is part and parcel to the New Birth. Repentance is the fruit of being born again.

Outside the "greasy grace" being taught in some places, the real gospel is being taught in many places.  I attended (and taught) in an underground church in China for 6 months. Just as real faith died down to only embers in Europe, it is happening here in the US. We need a new "awakening!" it has been promised through countless prophecies - and is sure to come soon.  When the fire of revival is still hot, Jesus will come. That is what has been prophesied.