144,000?

[Marlene S]

On 1/14/2019 at 11:12 PM, iamlamad said:

Sorry, but you are adding words to the 5th seal. You should know that is a big NO NO. In fact, the 5th seal is for the martyrs of the CHURCH age. Jesus opened this seal with seals 1 through 4, as soon as He ascended. Stephen was surely one of them. 

You are mistaken: Paul is clear that his rapture will come BEFORE the man of sin is revealed. 

Make no mistake, God knows who today are a part of the ten "lost" tribes. Some have been found in the last few years. My point was, the 70th week is for Daniel's people, the Jews and Hebrews. It is not for the church. 

I am not adding anything. All I said was that the martyrs/Saints are already gathering under the Altar. Remember that when the seal is opened, it was the ones who are already there, asking when they will get their justice. Jesus answers and tells them that they must wait until the others have been killed as they were. The persecution is happening today. How many Christians have been beheaded by ISIS and other enemies recently? There is persecution from the Dragon and also from Anti-Christ.

What do you mean the 10 lost Tribes, are there not 12 Tribes of Israel? Are you saying that two tribes are already known? When I hear the term '10 lost Tribes' I get very weary.

So many things have happened to me over the years, and these experiences have caused me to do much seeking to understand what is happening in my life. One of the things I looked into was whether I belonged to one of the 12 Tribes of Israel. One interesting thing I did find was there is today an actual 'group' of individuals claiming to be belonging to the '10 lost Tribes' of Israel. I have done much research on them and if I wrote what I found, I would be kicked off this forum or considered insane. No one would believe me.

Why did you mention the "10 Lost Tribes, and not the 12 Tribes of Israel? Just curious. From what I gathered, the 10 lost tribes were not scattered, but took refuge 'across the river', because they thought the Jews were too disobedient to God. Who are the '10 Lost Tribes' ?

Is it possible that you are from the Church and I am from 'ISRAEL' and we are somehow seeing the Scriptures according to our places in the scheme of things? :). Peace to you in Christ. M.

Edited January 16, 2019 by Marlene S

[iamlamad]

6 hours ago, Marlene S said:

I am not adding anything. All I said was that the martyrs/Saints are already gathering under the Altar. Remember that when the seal is opened, it was the ones who are already there, asking when they will get their justice. Jesus answers and tells them that they must wait until the others have been killed as they were. The persecution is happening today. How many Christians have been beheaded by ISIS and other enemies recently? There is persecution from the Dragon and also from Anti-Christ.

What do you mean the 10 lost Tribes, are there not 12 Tribes of Israel? Are you saying that two tribes are already known? When I hear the term '10 lost Tribes' I get very weary.

So many things have happened to me over the years, and these experiences have caused me to do much seeking to understand what is happening in my life. One of the things I looked into was whether I belonged to one of the 12 Tribes of Israel. One interesting thing I did find was there is today an actual 'group' of individuals claiming to be belonging to the '10 lost Tribes' of Israel. I have done much research on them and if I wrote what I found, I would be kicked off this forum or considered insane. No one would believe me.

Why did you mention the "10 Lost Tribes, and not the 12 Tribes of Israel? Just curious. From what I gathered, the 10 lost tribes were not scattered, but took refuge 'across the river', because they thought the Jews were too disobedient to God. Who are the '10 Lost Tribes' ?

Is it possible that you are from the Church and I am from 'ISRAEL' and we are somehow seeing the Scriptures according to our places in the scheme of things? :). Peace to you in Christ. M.

What you wrote was, "The beheaded are already showing up under the Altar in Heaven."  By that comment I thought you mean those beheaded by the Antichrist Beast of Rev. 13. However, there have been beheadings in the last few years, so you could have meant church age martyrs.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

The "ten lost tribes" are the ten tribes that were carried away by Assyria.  It was later when the 11th tribe was carried away.  The ten were Reuben, Simeon, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Manasseh and Ephraim.

I know that are some that think most of the US is made up of the lost tribes of Israel. I don't believe it. Personal circumstances happen to everyone. We all must be careful not to read the scriptures through our circumstances.  I will add, not one Israelite is "lost" to God.  Some of these "lost" tribes have been discovered recently.

[iamlamad]

7 hours ago, Marlene S said:

So you are admitting that the Church does not see Christ coming in the sky, right? You believe that she will be taken when Christ is 'hidden in the clouds, before He appears to the whole world with His Army of Angels, right?

What I am saying is that all of my dream-visions have shown me that I will be here until the end, or at least that is how I have interpreted the meanings.

I have seen two 'Raptures' and I was not a part of them. Instead, while watching the first one, I was sealed by a bolt of lightning that came from beyond the clouds above.

Why was I shown the end of the world? Why was I sealed. I will say this though- after I was struck on my forehead, a seal of LIGHT was branded there and my head and body were filled with glorious LIGHT. I was then filled with the Holy Spirit, which is a great living power within and I began to run really fast, I believe I could fly if I wanted to, but I had to preach to the masses.

I have had so many visions and they are all connected. Why would Elijah appear to me descending from beyond the clouds in LIGHT, walked over to me and told me and said: 'My name is Elijah- the Prophet and I know your name?

I will be with my Father and God- Christ the Everlasting Father, The Father of Spirits. The Human Spirit is a most powerful Being. I have seen and felt mine/me. Some are redeemed Souls and some are Spirits. How really wonderful we Humans are. Christ is KING! M.

I believe the church will be returning to earth WITH Christ.

Rev. 19:14  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I think the church will be one of those armies.  I believe exactly what Paul taught in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 - that the rapture of the church will come a moment before the Wrath of God begins. I see that in Revelation as a moment before the 6th seal. The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age. The 6th seal is the start of the judgment those under the altar were asking for. The rapture of the church will be a moment before the 6th seal, and Paul's "sudden destruction" will be the great earthquake at the 6th seal. In fact, I think the earthquake will be caused by the dead in Christ rising.  It is scripture that He remains in the clouds and the churches rises up to meet Him in the clouds.  This cannot be His coming when "every eye will see Him." That is why untold millions believe He will come first FOR His saints and 7 years later WITH His saints.

I did not see your visions. Visions can certainly happen. Then can certainly happen about things NOT written. But if they depict something AGAINST what is written, they did not come from God. Do you think your visions agree with the written word? 

If you are truly born again, you should go in the rapture. However, if you believe the rapture to come at the end, I think it is possible you would be left behind. Scripture tells us He is coming for those EXPECTING Him. There are many these days that expect to see the Beast first. I suspect they will be left behind.

[Marlene S]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What you wrote was, "The beheaded are already showing up under the Altar in Heaven."  By that comment I thought you mean those beheaded by the Antichrist Beast of Rev. 13. However, there have been beheadings in the last few years, so you could have meant church age martyrs.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

The "ten lost tribes" are the ten tribes that were carried away by Assyria.  It was later when the 11th tribe was carried away.  The ten were Reuben, Simeon, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Manasseh and Ephraim.

I know that are some that think most of the US is made up of the lost tribes of Israel. I don't believe it. Personal circumstances happen to everyone. We all must be careful not to read the scriptures through our circumstances.  I will add, not one Israelite is "lost" to God.  Some of these "lost" tribes have been discovered recently.

Consider this: Christ's Kingdom-The Kingdom of God/Heaven is not of this world. There are no physical flesh and blood Humans in the Kingdom. My Israel is not of this world; it has nothing to do with flesh and blood Jews, but spiritual ones belonging to the spiritual Kingdom of God, where flesh and blood cannot enter.

I know that God knows who His people are. There is a spiritual ISRAEL and a spiritual Jerusalem, which are not of this world.

Are you also saying that the Tribe of Judah was never 'lost'? M.

[Marlene S]

3 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I believe the church will be returning to earth WITH Christ.

Rev. 19:14  And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

I think the church will be one of those armies.  I believe exactly what Paul taught in 1 Thes. 4 & 5 - that the rapture of the church will come a moment before the Wrath of God begins. I see that in Revelation as a moment before the 6th seal. The 5th seal is for the martyrs of the church age. The 6th seal is the start of the judgment those under the altar were asking for. The rapture of the church will be a moment before the 6th seal, and Paul's "sudden destruction" will be the great earthquake at the 6th seal. In fact, I think the earthquake will be caused by the dead in Christ rising.  It is scripture that He remains in the clouds and the churches rises up to meet Him in the clouds.  This cannot be His coming when "every eye will see Him." That is why untold millions believe He will come first FOR His saints and 7 years later WITH His saints.

I did not see your visions. Visions can certainly happen. Then can certainly happen about things NOT written. But if they depict something AGAINST what is written, they did not come from God. Do you think your visions agree with the written word? 

If you are truly born again, you should go in the rapture. However, if you believe the rapture to come at the end, I think it is possible you would be left behind. Scripture tells us He is coming for those EXPECTING Him. There are many these days that expect to see the Beast first. I suspect they will be left behind.

I too believe that the Church will not experience the Wrath of God, which comes after the end of the Seven Year Tribulation period- the time of great persecution for the Church.

I am always expecting Our Lord. He can come at any time. The challenge of not knowing the fine details is that we don't know and cannot see what is happening in our midst.

Let me ask you this: In the Harvest when the Son of Man is reaping His wheat, is that the Rapture of the Church in Rev 14?

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

[iamlamad]

18 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

I too believe that the Church will not experience the Wrath of God, which comes after the end of the Seven Year Tribulation period- the time of great persecution for the Church.

I am always expecting Our Lord. He can come at any time. The challenge of not knowing the fine details is that we don't know and cannot see what is happening in our midst.

Let me ask you this: In the Harvest when the Son of Man is reaping His wheat, is that the Rapture of the Church in Rev 14?

14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

How can you say that His wrath comes after the end of the Seven years, when John shows His wrath beginning at the 6th seal?  The truth is, the entire 70th week comes with His wrath, but the vials are vials are His wrath.  

Do you know where the 70th week is found in Revelation? It is marked by 7's. The 7th seal begins the week - with the 30 minutes of silence - the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it.  The 70th week goes from chapter 8 to chapter 16. All of the judgments during this time come with His wrath.

Let me show you a verse:  Dan. 9:²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Be honest, Marlene: did Daniel write that the 70 weeks are determined for the church? 

You are wise to believe He can come at any time! We should be expecting Him at all times. 

If the rapture did come pretrib, as I and millions believe: will others want to follow Jesus when they see that they were left behind? My guess is, there will be millions and millions. Much of the church worldwide does not understand that they must be born again - so they will be left behind.  They will have to live through the days of GT or be put to death before. There will be no rapture for the church during the week.  Those believers that are put to death will certainly be taken to heaven - that is their spirit and soul.  In fact, that is probably what the first harvest in chapter 14 is all about. If you noticed, there are two harvests there; one for the righteous and one for the sinner. Where is John in His chronology in chapter 14? It is just before the days of great tribulation start. The image will be created and people forced to worship or die. The mark will be created and people will be forced to take it or die. Have you noticed that the beheaded only begin to show up in heaven in chapter 15?

The harvest for the wicked will then be at the battle of Armageddon. And for the parable of the tares. And for the sheep and goat judgment. In other words, what we read about harvests in chapter 14 is prophetic - looking forward in time to the millions that will be beheaded and the millions of sinners that will die. Jesus is not really going to harvest with a sickle! It is both symbolic and prophetic. 

[Marlene S]

And concerning my visions, I have had them since I became a Follower of Christ in my early twenties. At first I started dreaming of Earthquakes and then a few days later they would happen.

That lasted for several years and then I started having these dream-visions where  I am taken to a place- like a valley and shown 'things'. I have seen many things in those vision, where it is always Twilight... dark, but not completely. I stand there in the same place and watch as things appear in the Light for me to see. These 'things' were shown to me from the north, south, east and west. I simply pivoted and watched as the thing I was supposed to observe appeared in white light. There are somethings I still do not understand, but as the End draws nearer, I can now understand some of them.

Such things like melting ice-bergs, strange rectangular cube-shaped 'thing' in the sky- like some kind of building complex- three parts together. it is coming from the sky. Meteors and asteroids flying over the horizon and other things. It was also in one of these dream-vision when Elijah appeared. What was strange about that dream was that I woke up after he left and turned on my light and looked at the time. I grabbed my Bible and started to read all I could about him. I then went back to sleep at around 3:00am and fell right back into the dream-vision... it continued.

I then saw a bright light coming closer from beyond the cloud and I saw someone who I would say was Jesus. He did not speak with me. As He descended, an Angel came out of Him. Yes... she did and they both came down to the ground in front of me, about 30 feet of so away. I just stood there in awe watching them. He spoke to her as they were both looking at me intently. She was dressed in full armor and I believe He told her that she had to protect me. 

I also saw the Heavens roll up as a scroll. It happened when my dream-visions changed again. This one was in the daytime. I had never had one in the daytime before, always in the 'twilight'. I was standing in an open place, I did not notice any trees or mountains, because my attention was mainly on the Sun. It was at 12 o'clock in the sky and I was able to stare at it. As I watched it, I noticed that there appeared a cross in the Sun in the form of blackish burning 'stuff'- iron. The burning became more intense and then it seemed that from behind the Sun there was white light trying to break though the burning cross on the face of the Sun.

The Light got brighter as it pierced through the Cross and divided it into four parts and then the Heavens rolled up as a scroll from the four corners of the Sun. Suddenly the place where I stood was filled in white Light that enveloped me for about four seconds... glorious and I did see the face a someone who looked at me, and did smile. So that was good.

I then began to get persecuted from the Gates of Hell. Perhaps I will tell you later, but the Dream-visions where I saw the two 'Raptures and the coming of our Lord in the Clouds, along with other visions- six in all, these I prayed to Christ for 21 days straight to see the hidden things. He showed me those six dreams, and those were the only ones where I actually participated instead of just watching. I know they came from My Father because I prayed everyday, and decided I would not stop, until I could see some of what was hidden.

I was attacked by demons from Hell and others. These were learning experiences for me, because I certainly learned a lot about how the Satanic forces work and how to use my own God-given weapons. I believe the demons who attacked me actually had a meeting on how to steal my Soul, because after the first two attacks where I called on Jesus to deliver me from those evil ones, and He did, you should see how the scatter like cockroaches when the light appears.

They tried to actually stop me from calling Jesus to help me. They did.... It was then I discovered my Armor of God. The Sword of the Spirit and the Breast-plate really works. I will stop now. But Yes, at least the last six were from Christ... He answered my prayers, just as He always does.

Okay, so I just put my self out there as never before... oops.

When you pray alone, do you pray out loud? M.

Edited January 19, 2019 by Marlene S

[iamlamad]

52 minutes ago, Marlene S said:

Consider this: Christ's Kingdom-The Kingdom of God/Heaven is not of this world. There are no physical flesh and blood Humans in the Kingdom. My Israel is not of this world; it has nothing to do with flesh and blood Jews, but spiritual ones belonging to the spiritual Kingdom of God, where flesh and blood cannot enter.

I know that God knows who His people are. There is a spiritual ISRAEL and a spiritual Jerusalem, which are not of this world.

Are you also saying that the Tribe of Judah was never 'lost'? M.

They were never carried away captive. They were there when Jesus was born. Jesus was a Jew.  Most of them have been lost spiritually speaking.

[iamlamad]

Just now, Marlene S said:

And concerning my visions, I have had them since I became a Follower of Christ in my early twenties. At first I started dreaming of Earthquakes and then a few days later they would happen.

That lasted for several years and then I started having these dream-visions where  I am taken to a place- like a valley and shown 'things'. I have seen many things in those vision, where it is always Twilight... dark, but not completely. I stand there in the same place and watch as things appear in the Light for me to see. These 'things' were shown to me from the north, south, east and west. I simply pivoted and watched as the thing I was supposed to observe appeared in white light. There are somethings I still do not understand, but as the End draws nearer, I can now understand some of them.

Such things like melting ice-bergs, strange rectangular cube-shaped 'thing' in the sky- like some kind of building complex- three parts together. it is coming from the sky. Meteors and asteroids flying over the horizon and other things. It was also in one of these dream-vision when Elijah appeared. What was strange about that dream was that I woke up after he left and turned on my light and looked at the time. I grabbed my Bible and started to read all I could about him. I then went back to sleep at around 3:00am and feel right back into the dream-vision... it continued.

I then saw a bright light coming closer from beyond the cloud and I saw someone who I would say was Jesus. He did not speak with me. As He descended, an Angel came out of Him. Yes... she did and the both came down to the ground in front of me, about 30 feet of so away. I just stood there in awe watching them. He spoke to her as they were both looking at me intently. She was dressed in full armor and I believe He told her that she had to protect me. 

I saw the Heavens roll up as a scroll. It happened when my dream-visions changed again. This one was in the daytime. I had never had one in the daytime before, always in the 'twilight'. I was standing in an open place, I did not notice any trees or mountains, because my attention was mainly on the Sun. It was at 12 o'clock in the sky and I was able to stare at it. As I watched it, I noticed that there appeared a cross in the Sun in the form of blackish burning 'stuff'- iron. The burning became more intense and then it seemed that from behind the Sun there was white light trying to break though the burning cross on the face of the Sun.

The Light got brighter as it pierced through the Cross and divided it into four parts and then the Heavens rolled up as a scroll from the four corners. Suddenly the place where I stood was covered in white Light, glorious and I did see the face a someone who looked at me, and did smile. So that was good.

I then began to get persecuted from the Gates of Hell. Perhaps I will tell you later, but the Dream-visions where I saw the two 'Raptures and the coming of our Lord in the Clouds, along with other visions- six in all, these I prayed to Christ for 21 days straight to see the hidden things. He showed me those six dreams, and those were the only ones where I actually participated instead of just watching. I know they came from My Father because I prayed everyday, and decided I would not stop, until I could see some of what was hidden.

I was attacked by demons from Hell and others. These were learning experiences foe me, because I certainly learned a lot about how the Satanic forces work and how to use my own God-given weapons. I believe the demons who attacked me actually had a meeting on how to steal my Soul, because after the first two attacks where I called on Jesus to deliver me from those evil ones, and He did, you should see how the scatter like cockroaches when the light appears.

They tried to actually stop me from calling Jesus to help me. They did.... It was then I discovered my Armor of God. The Sword of the Spirit and the Breast-plate really works. I will stop now. But Yes, at least the last six were from Christ... He answered my prayers, just as He always does.

Okay, so I just put my self out there as never before... oops.

When you pray alone, do you pray out loud? M.

Yes, frequently I pray out loud, and frequently quite loud!  I know God is not hard of hearing, but demonic spirits are.  We must pray with authority. 

Well, all I can say is, people need rhinoceros skin here if they dare write of God speaking to them or dreams and visions.  I had Jesus speak to me many times about Revelation. I heard His voice and His words. All I can do is write what He said. if people don't believe it, it is on them, not me. 

[Marlene S]

11 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

How can you say that His wrath comes after the end of the Seven years, when John shows His wrath beginning at the 6th seal?  The truth is, the entire 70th week comes with His wrath, but the vials are vials are His wrath.  

Do you know where the 70th week is found in Revelation? It is marked by 7's. The 7th seal begins the week - with the 30 minutes of silence - the 7th trumpet marks the midpoint and the 7th vial ends it.  The 70th week goes from chapter 8 to chapter 16. All of the judgments during this time come with His wrath.

Let me show you a verse:  Dan. 9:²⁴ Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Be honest, Marlene: did Daniel write that the 70 weeks are determined for the church? 

You are wise to believe He can come at any time! We should be expecting Him at all times. 

If the rapture did come pretrib, as I and millions believe: will others want to follow Jesus when they see that they were left behind? My guess is, there will be millions and millions. Much of the church worldwide does not understand that they must be born again - so they will be left behind.  They will have to live through the days of GT or be put to death before. There will be no rapture for the church during the week.  Those believers that are put to death will certainly be taken to heaven - that is their spirit and soul.  In fact, that is probably what the first harvest in chapter 14 is all about. If you noticed, there are two harvests there; one for the righteous and one for the sinner. Where is John in His chronology in chapter 14? It is just before the days of great tribulation start. The image will be created and people forced to worship or die. The mark will be created and people will be forced to take it or die. Have you noticed that the beheaded only begin to show up in heaven in chapter 15?

The harvest for the wicked will then be at the battle of Armageddon. And for the parable of the tares. And for the sheep and goat judgment. In other words, what we read about harvests in chapter 14 is prophetic - looking forward in time to the millions that will be beheaded and the millions of sinners that will die. Jesus is not really going to harvest with a sickle! It is both symbolic and prophetic. 

The Church goes through seven years of great Tribulation before the Rapture. The last Seven years of the 70 years. M.