Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JoeK

Forgiveness Doesn't Mean Trust... Really?

Recommended Posts

I've encountered a teaching that seems to be quite prevalent, at least here in Israel.  I first heard it taught in "The Purpose Driven Life" by Pastor Rick Warren and I have since encountered this teaching in 3 different Messianic Congregations here in Israel.  That message is basically, 'forgiveness does not mean trust: that we as believers must forgive as Jesus taught, even 77 times (or 70 times 7 times) but that does not mean trusting the other person. They must re-earn our trust' and I basically just accepted this message as fact since it does seem to be reasonable.  Then a few months ago, I finally watched the 1935 version of Les Miserables.  For some inexplicable reason, I had been wanting to read or watch it for the last year or so but kept putting it off.  When I finally encountered that scene with the Bishop and Jean Valjean, something hit me very hard about it. The way the bishop gave Jean the silver candlesticks when the police brought him back to the place and then the way the bishop told him before he left that he is always welcome there and that the front door is the proper way and not by any other means. It may be fictional, but it reminded me of a factual story.

The story from "The Cross and the Switchblade" and the way in which David Wilkerson led Niki Cruz and gang to the Lord. How he had finally gotten several gang members and others from the community together in an auditorium to share with them the Gospel message and how David Wilkerson asked Niki Cruz and his gang to take up the offering. As they were going through the passage up to the balcony, they noticed an exit door and were about to run off with the money when suddenly it occurred to them: 'This guy is trusting us. No one has ever trusted us before' and they brought the offering up to David. That single act of trust was instrumental in dissolving NYC gangs and eventually lead to hundreds of inner city Victory Outreach Missions throughout the world today, including one in Haifa, Israel.

So I started asking myself, "Why is it whenever this message of 'forgiveness does not equal trust' is taught, they do not bring any scriptural support for it?" And I'm kind of hard pressed. I am no doctor of scripture but I am quite familiar in a general overview sort of way and usually when I am troubled like this, the Lord will bring to memory scriptural support. But none arises to memory.

Three insights have been occurring to me and I'd really like some input here:

1) Forgiveness minus Trust really equals unforgiveness;

2) The person may be being hypocritical, saying to the other that they are forgiven, but their behavior, attitude and actions do not outwardly demonstrate it;

3) We are supposed to show to others the same Grace God showed us. God doesn't tell us, "I forgive you but now you must earn my trust".  How then could we approach His Throne of Grace... How then will He welcome us into His Home?

 

If I am way off base here, then please let me know. I've been wrong many times in the past, and will be pleasantly surprised if I am way wrong about this: it will be an excellent reminder of how fallible I am and how much I need to be involved regularly in open discussions with other followers of Christ.

God Bless!

Joe

  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would give a word of caution about rick warren and listening or reading to his messages.    some of his messages are questionable when compared to the bible, some of his statements.  

I do not see how trust and forgiveness are connected.  Just because you forgive someone does not mean you trust them.   once someone makes you not trust them its hard to trust them again.  it takes time.  if i am wronged and I forgive someone a good bit of the time i forgive them for ME.  so i do not harbor bitterness in my heart, and so i can honor Gods way.  we are not to forgive because someone deserves it, but because God wants us to.  i have experienced in my life that even with other believers that wrong me, I forgive them, then later we are reconciled, but i still do not trust them until i see for myself they didnt just say the right words... I have to see actions to get the trust back.  Jesus did not teach us to pray trust us as we trust others, no, He said forgive us as we forgive others.  The bible even tells us not to put trust in man.  I do not see anywhere in my reading of the bible God tells us to trust man... trust Him yes, but not trust a person. 

also keep in mind there is forgiveness, and there is reconciliation.  those two are different.  and both are words used in the bible.  this is evidence that you can forgive someone and not trust them. 

  • Thumbs Up 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 2Ti 4:14  Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 2Ti 4:15  Beware of him yourself, for he strongly opposed our message.

We must forgive to avoid becoming bitter and falling short of God's grace.  When the person who wronged us has not asked for forgiveness there is little chance of their changing, and many people are dangerous to ourselves and our children.  We should not put ourselves or our families in the path of danger.  

Heb 12:15  looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled

Wilkerson was putting the church's possessions in the hands of people of doubtful trust.  He did so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  That is not to be compared to people who are dangerous and who have harmed us.  I agree that they need to earn our trust.  They do not need to earn our forgiveness.  That is to be freely given even as God in Christ Jesus forgave us.

We may be able to forgive a serial killer for killing one of our children.  But I would have to see a real change in him before I turned him loose with another.  Even though there are stories of Charles Manson, Bundy and others coming to Christ, I doubt if I could trust them.  Even the apostle Paul who had persecuted Christians was not trusted in the Jewish Christian community because of his reputation.  God instead sent him to the gentiles.

  • Brilliant! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, JoeK said:

I've encountered a teaching that seems to be quite prevalent, at least here in Israel.  I first heard it taught in "The Purpose Driven Life" by Pastor Rick Warren and I have since encountered this teaching in 3 different Messianic Congregations here in Israel.  That message is basically, 'forgiveness does not mean trust: that we as believers must forgive as Jesus taught, even 77 times (or 70 times 7 times) but that does not mean trusting the other person. They must re-earn our trust' and I basically just accepted this message as fact since it does seem to be reasonable.  Then a few months ago, I finally watched the 1935 version of Les Miserables.  For some inexplicable reason, I had been wanting to read or watch it for the last year or so but kept putting it off.  When I finally encountered that scene with the Bishop and Jean Valjean, something hit me very hard about it. The way the bishop gave Jean the silver candlesticks when the police brought him back to the place and then the way the bishop told him before he left that he is always welcome there and that the front door is the proper way and not by any other means. It may be fictional, but it reminded me of a factual story.

The story from "The Cross and the Switchblade" and the way in which David Wilkerson led Niki Cruz and gang to the Lord. How he had finally gotten several gang members and others from the community together in an auditorium to share with them the Gospel message and how David Wilkerson asked Niki Cruz and his gang to take up the offering. As they were going through the passage up to the balcony, they noticed an exit door and were about to run off with the money when suddenly it occurred to them: 'This guy is trusting us. No one has ever trusted us before' and they brought the offering up to David. That single act of trust was instrumental in dissolving NYC gangs and eventually lead to hundreds of inner city Victory Outreach Missions throughout the world today, including one in Haifa, Israel.

So I started asking myself, "Why is it whenever this message of 'forgiveness does not equal trust' is taught, they do not bring any scriptural support for it?" And I'm kind of hard pressed. I am no doctor of scripture but I am quite familiar in a general overview sort of way and usually when I am troubled like this, the Lord will bring to memory scriptural support. But none arises to memory.

Three insights have been occurring to me and I'd really like some input here:

1) Forgiveness minus Trust really equals unforgiveness;

2) The person may be being hypocritical, saying to the other that they are forgiven, but their behavior, attitude and actions do not outwardly demonstrate it;

3) We are supposed to show to others the same Grace God showed us. God doesn't tell us, "I forgive you but now you must earn my trust".  How then could we approach His Throne of Grace... How then will He welcome us into His Home?

 

If I am way off base here, then please let me know. I've been wrong many times in the past, and will be pleasantly surprised if I am way wrong about this: it will be an excellent reminder of how fallible I am and how much I need to be involved regularly in open discussions with other followers of Christ.

God Bless!

Joe

Forgiveness is not trust.

Trust is a heart condition that is a type of "oneness" that you have with the person you believe in, because you believe them to be TRUE.

If this "oneness" is broken, then your inner heart is damaged, and the beginning of the healing process is to forgive.

THEN the Lord who "came to heal the broken hearted" can begin His work of Grace and Recovery and Restoration.

WE , as the born again, are to love and forgive and have mercy, but we are not instructed to FORGET what a "trust breaker" has done.

So, to remember is to execute wisdom, and to forgive is to execute God's will.

Edited by Behold
  • Thumbs Up 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, forgive and trust are two different things. Trust must be gained over time even after you've forgave someone because the scars aren't fully healed.  Forgiving someone for whatever they've done means you're no longer angry or affected by the incident, as in let it become history and not remembering it anymore. but trust is to know that you own't be harm by that person again. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/20/2018 at 9:41 PM, Cletus said:

I would give a word of caution about rick warren and listening or reading to his messages.    some of his messages are questionable when compared to the bible, some of his statements.  

I do not see how trust and forgiveness are connected.  Just because you forgive someone does not mean you trust them.   once someone makes you not trust them its hard to trust them again.  it takes time.  if i am wronged and I forgive someone a good bit of the time i forgive them for ME.  so i do not harbor bitterness in my heart, and so i can honor Gods way.  we are not to forgive because someone deserves it, but because God wants us to.  i have experienced in my life that even with other believers that wrong me, I forgive them, then later we are reconciled, but i still do not trust them until i see for myself they didnt just say the right words... I have to see actions to get the trust back.  Jesus did not teach us to pray trust us as we trust others, no, He said forgive us as we forgive others.  The bible even tells us not to put trust in man.  I do not see anywhere in my reading of the bible God tells us to trust man... trust Him yes, but not trust a person. 

also keep in mind there is forgiveness, and there is reconciliation.  those two are different.  and both are words used in the bible.  this is evidence that you can forgive someone and not trust them. 

Thank you for the heads up regarding some of the teachings of Rick Warren. I do not learn from him but primarily from more 'old school' folk like Oswald Chambers.

You mentioned a connection between being reconciled and trust. To me, forgiveness and reconciliation (trust) appear to be two sides of the same coin.  When God Graciously forgives us, He also reconciles us to Himself automatically, immediately, and fully.  We don't begin a long, hard process of being reconciled to Him. And if we are God's Children, we do as our Father does. And to whom do we have the opportunity to do as our Father does if not to those other humans that we encounter on our daily goings about? It seems that we forget that we were enemies of God when He died for us. We tend to minimalize  that in our dealings with our 'enemies'. We may not be commanded to trust but we are commanded to love. And the Bible was not vague about the Biblical definition of love: 1) Love always trusts. 2) Love keeps no record of wrong. 3) Love never fails. What does it mean to die to oneself? To be crucified with Christ and no longer live, but Christ lives in us? To deny oneself, take up one's cross and to follow Him? What do these things mean to a person who still believes that he has a right to himself and can make claims against others? Any sin committed against a disciple of Christ does not land on him, but on Christ Himself ("Whatever you did unto the least of these, you did it unto me.") And if we are indeed dead to ourselves, then what right do we have to take from Christ what rightful belongs to Him, for Him, the True Judge, to decide what to do about it Himself?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/21/2018 at 2:32 AM, Willa said:

 2Ti 4:14  Alexander the coppersmith did me great harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds. 2Ti 4:15  Beware of him yourself, for he strongly opposed our message.

We must forgive to avoid becoming bitter and falling short of God's grace.  When the person who wronged us has not asked for forgiveness there is little chance of their changing, and many people are dangerous to ourselves and our children.  We should not put ourselves or our families in the path of danger.  

Heb 12:15  looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled

Wilkerson was putting the church's possessions in the hands of people of doubtful trust.  He did so under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  That is not to be compared to people who are dangerous and who have harmed us.  I agree that they need to earn our trust.  They do not need to earn our forgiveness.  That is to be freely given even as God in Christ Jesus forgave us.

We may be able to forgive a serial killer for killing one of our children.  But I would have to see a real change in him before I turned him loose with another.  Even though there are stories of Charles Manson, Bundy and others coming to Christ, I doubt if I could trust them.  Even the apostle Paul who had persecuted Christians was not trusted in the Jewish Christian community because of his reputation.  God instead sent him to the gentiles.

In the same epistle, 2 Ti 2:8, Paul calls The Gospel 'his' Gospel. Two other times in Scripture, Paul refers to The Gospel as My Gospel. How did Alexander the coppersmith do him great harm? Paul says himself in that passage you quoted: "For he strongly opposed our message".  Paul could only be 'harmed' by those who opposed the Gospel (his Gospel) and so too, Peter and the apostles and disciples concerns regarding 'Paul the Persecutor of the Church'. This whole idea of being taught to forgive for our own best interest is completely alien to our Father who gave His Son to die for us while we were His enemies. We are taught to imitate Christ, and Christ always did the will of His Father in Heaven. God has absolutely zero self-interests. He doesn't forgive us and reconcile us to Himself for His needs, but solely for our benefit. We were never taught to forgive and to let go of bitterness for our own best interest, but solely for the benefit of others. Regarding bringing serial killers into the discussion is about like asking, 'Can God make a rock so heavy that He cannot lift it?'.  We are never tested beyond what we are able 1 Cor 10:13 because God is Faithful. We only ever need to concern ourselves with whatever situations, circumstances and people that God puts us directly into contact with. Regarding all of those scenarios, we are indeed more than capable of responding exactly as Jesus would. And regarding family: "If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple." Jesus Himself said that in Luke 14:26.  That essentially means that if family becomes an excuse for not loving Jesus ("If you love me, you obey my commandments" John 14:15) then you have to leave them in God's care. Every hair of their head has been counted and they are worth more to God than many sparrows. Mt 10:29-31
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, JoeK said:

Thank you for the heads up regarding some of the teachings of Rick Warren. I do not learn from him but primarily from more 'old school' folk like Oswald Chambers.

You mentioned a connection between being reconciled and trust. To me, forgiveness and reconciliation (trust) appear to be two sides of the same coin.  When God Graciously forgives us, He also reconciles us to Himself automatically, immediately, and fully.  We don't begin a long, hard process of being reconciled to Him. And if we are God's Children, we do as our Father does. And to whom do we have the opportunity to do as our Father does if not to those other humans that we encounter on our daily goings about? It seems that we forget that we were enemies of God when He died for us. We tend to minimalize  that in our dealings with our 'enemies'. We may not be commanded to trust but we are commanded to love. And the Bible was not vague about the Biblical definition of love: 1) Love always trusts. 2) Love keeps no record of wrong. 3) Love never fails. What does it mean to die to oneself? To be crucified with Christ and no longer live, but Christ lives in us? To deny oneself, take up one's cross and to follow Him? What do these things mean to a person who still believes that he has a right to himself and can make claims against others? Any sin committed against a disciple of Christ does not land on him, but on Christ Himself ("Whatever you did unto the least of these, you did it unto me.") And if we are indeed dead to ourselves, then what right do we have to take from Christ what rightful belongs to Him, for Him, the True Judge, to decide what to do about it Himself?

between God and man and man and man its not quite the same.  God knows our heart and knows if our words are sincere or not.  we dont always know another persons words are sincere.  they might just be saying the right thing.  to me reconciliation is not trust(I will explain more on this later).  reconciliation is ok you messed up, you want to make amends and be friends again... and depending on what was done start working on getting the trust back.  I also do not see that love always trusts.  I really do not think its a good idea to go around just trusting people as thats a good way to get burned by selfish agendas and motives.   Can you show a scripture that says love always trusts?  I dont see God commanding us to just trust people, i do however see scriptures saying not to put out trust in man.  take for instance loving our enemies... do you trust your enemies?  if a snake was to speak to you and say i wont bite you, its ok... would you pick it up?  now maybe some people would, but i would be reaching for my machete... I know the machete it not really a good analogy for loving our enemys but  i think it illustrates the level of trust i have in a serpent.  but the main point I am going for here is where does it say in the bible love always trusts?  are you speaking on 1 cor 13:7?  in the NIV it says trust... in the KJV it says...

1Co 13:7  Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

now if we are going to be talking about love we should define love... the word used is agape in corinthians, not phileo.  so it is a Godly love.  but if we look up the word believeth in 1cor 13:7 its the word pisteuō.  in other places in the NT this word is translated as trust  such as...

Luk 16:11  If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

this is a very rare occurrence, possibly the only one in the NT where  pisteuō is translated as trust.  other greek words are used in every other instance i looked up and i searched the whole NT.  the other words in english "trust" have other meanings like to convince in an argument or like trusting in money or confide in....  luke 16:11 also shows trust can be violated and its speaking of a God to man level. 

Now I do agree with you that there is a level of trust in love, i do.  and i agree there is also a level of trust in reconciliation.  i also think the way we are using the word trust is different.  I have had instances in life where i did love someone or "entrust" something in someone that i really should not have trusted, but i thought it was the christian thing to do.  I thought it was right and would be pleasing to God.  but deep down the thought was there, this is not going to go well for me or there is nothing to point to that says i should trust or entrust them.  the thing is the letter to the corinthians was really because they had the gifts flowing but he wanted to show them Love is greater.  thats a little different than someone wronged me to the point i no longer trust them and need to keep them at arms length at a minimum.  and even then loving them is not outside of our abilities with Gods Spirit in us.  I will even go as far as saying perhaps you have a level of love that i just do not.  but God did give us a brain, and He did give us scripture that tells us God didnt give us a spirit of fear but of LOVE and power and a sound mind.  the term sound mind dont just mean like sanity, it has to do with making right decisions.  the whole thought process.  I do not believe being meek is being weak or being a door mat.  The Book says to be at peace with everyone we can be at peace with... but there are some rascals out there.  for me, a man, I consider it my duty to ensure the safety of my family.  if someone shows me they would harm my family, and i do not mean just physically like say some youngster who shows no restraint or maturity and shows interest in my daughter...., well, they are going to move around and stay away.  no option will be given.  I will not be trusting everyone just because i am commanded to love.    

Basicly i think it depends on what the word trust is meaning in context.  and also what level of trust has been given.  does what I am saying here make sense or does it seem like i am just rambeling? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest shiloh357
On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:49 PM, JoeK said:

Three insights have been occurring to me and I'd really like some input here:

1) Forgiveness minus Trust really equals unforgiveness;

No, it doesn't.  If someone has lied to you and betrayed that trust, you can forgive without necessarily trusting that person.   Forgiveness is not a reset button. 

Quote

2) The person may be being hypocritical, saying to the other that they are forgiven, but their behavior, attitude and actions do not outwardly demonstrate it;

That's not hypocrisy.  Hypocrisy is when you justify in yourself the very thing you condemn in other people.     I can forgive a person without being their friend. 

Forgiveness simply means that I put justice in God's hands.   It doesn't meant that the relationship is fully restored.   

Part of the problem with your approach is that it doesn't allow the person who was betrayed or hurt, to heal.  It unfairly benefits the one who hurt them.

 

Quote

3) We are supposed to show to others the same Grace God showed us. God doesn't tell us, "I forgive you but now you must earn my trust".  How then could we approach His Throne of Grace... How then will He welcome us into His Home?

Actually you cannot compare our relationship with God vs. our relationship with each other.    In human relationships, we do have to earn each other's trust.  And if you betray trust, you have proven that you are not worthy of trust.   I can forgive someone who has broken my trust, but that does not mean that I am under any biblical or moral obligation to just reset the relationship to where it was before the offense was committed and we just go on like nothing every happened.   That is what the offender wants.  And that is not a healthy approach to forgiveness.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Mat 6:14 For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you; Mat 6:15  but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

9 hours ago, JoeK said:

This whole idea of being taught to forgive for our own best interest is completely alien to our Father who gave His Son to die for us while we were His enemies.

I didn't ever say that.  I did say that we should try to avoid becoming bitter.  We are told to not let the sun go down on our wrath.  We are even told to make peace with our brother before we give our offerings.  Fortunately later on Paul won the deep respect of the apostles at Jerusalem.  His gospel was the same as they preached.  

1Co 15:1  Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, 1Co 15:2  and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 1Co 15:3  For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 1Co 15:4  that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 1Co 15:5  and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 1Co 15:6  Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep.

2Pe 3:16  as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.  

Peter put's Paul's letters on par with the Old Testament sacred scriptures. 

"We only ever need to concern ourselves with whatever situations, circumstances and people that God puts us directly into contact with. Regarding all of those scenarios,"  

You fail to realize that some people here have had to deal with comparable situations in real life.  People here have been raped and molested, threatened with death, and used for satanic rituals.  I am not stretching this but am simply didn't name the names of the people involved.    Perhaps you are naive and think that we should put our children in the care of these unrepentant dangerous people, and trust them.   We forgive because Christ forgave us, and He in us is able to do so.  If Paul warns to avoid dangerous people, it is right to do so even after forgiving them and seeing them as God does--lost and corrupted by sin and by the enemy.  Paul forgave his tormentor but did not trust him, and assumed he would harm others if given the opportunity.  It really doesn't matter that he had rejected the Gospel.  We never know for sure that a person genuinely has repented til we see the fruit of the Spirit in their lives, even as was seen in Paul and his many converts among the gentiles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By Behold
      On Christmas Day, we as believers, and a whole lot of the unsaved world celebrate CHRISTmas.
      Thats correct, you can't have Christmas, without CHRIST in the word, tho you would think you can as everywhere you go now, you hear....>"happy holidays", instead of  "Merry CHRISTmas".
      This lightly annoys me, so i always reply...... MERRY CHRISTMAS, whenever i find myself in the presence of a politically corrected dip stick.
      So, try this that im about to show you.... on your family and your friends and your neighbors, as it will be quite an experience for you to enjoy, while they get to partake, also.
      Do this :
      On Christmas eve, or before...... bake a birthday cake, or buy one from your local Walmart or .....similar.
      On Christmas morning, when all are gathered with you, or on Christmas eve, ( or Both) if you are game........show them the cake with one Candle LIT, and have them sing this with you.
       
      "Happy Birthday to you.  
      Happy Birthday to YOU
      Happy Birthday LORD JESUS...... Happy Birthday to YOU".
       
      Try that.
      It'll bless you, and it'll help them to see the LIGHT.
       
       
      Merry CHRISTmas,
       
       
      <B><
       
    • By Bandit
      How is everyone? Im brand new on this site...cant figure out how to reply to peoples comments yet haha...
      But ive always been a life long believer, got filled with Holy Spirit in a big way in 2015...
      Always have lived a more criminal type of lifestyle, after I got Immersed by the Holy Spirit, I went deep down, lost it all, home, family, dogs got killed, had a lengthy prison sentence hanging over my head, and even commited some serious acts of violence, stole to eat, and panhandled... it took all that chastising, to make me say, I will never go back to that lifestyle again...
      Now finally within the last 3 to 4 months ive FULLY gave into Being a Follower of the Word, Thank The Most High!
      Now I cld go on all day on How much truly awesome stuff happend that day I got filled with Holy spirit, I was by myself living in a camper doing a Study and was praying allowed, went inside talked to my mom, about a friend that had got shot and killed a day or 2 before, I said I didnt feel it was in His Cards to die like that,, at that moment pure silver appeared out of a card tattoo on my forearm, and I Immediately went into full spirit, and so did my mom, I heard only two things in my head, the sounds of Angels Laughter and a man Yelling HALLELUYAH! My mom, sisters, and dad all witnessed some kind of energy field that surrounded my Body, they said it looked like the kinda Mirage you see off hot black top, I never seen it and never cared to, what I actually felt... just stompped, what they was saying about it haha..
      At the end of the Exp. Everyone in the house fell asleep mid day, and my family dont nap lol...but before I fell asleep, I seen a picture of me(in my mind) kinda busting thru the doors of a church, middle service, disrupting with a authority type thing.
      All that happend in 2015, Ive now recently been given back everything, and better than before! Praise The Most High. 
      Now I didnt understand what that light vision meant at all, at that time,..but its been revealed to me over this last year, I got hit with tons of truths concerning the Bible and the Church as a whole. 
      And I can say its most definitely gonna be "disruptive" to majority of The Church. 
      That is IF they would like to get off the Industrial train(uncomfortable,not meant for human passengers,but you can still reach your destination) and get aboard The train He has Made for human passengers with a comfortable travel all the way home..
      There is really alot of stuff within all this...but one I'd like to touch on first would be Keeping of The Sabbath, Its a very amazing and a sad thing, that very Few Followers actually try to keep the Sabbath,
      #1. Its our Law to do so,
      #2. Man, I clda really used that amazing self discipline my entire life,which is likea auto blessing that is tied to the Sabbath. Haha
      3. The Father Himself sanctified it,made it Holy, and gave it to us as a Gift to his Followers, its a Holy rest he wants us to partake in with him, and its been basically forgotten within the Catholic and Christian churches.
      We know this is a important law were supposed to Keep, even when The Messiah was put in the tomb, no visitors came on Sabbath, bc the law and all laws did and still do to this day remain intact, only changes that was done to The Law was sacrificial and ceremonial, yes that means its still not lawful to eat pork, but were not supposed to condemn anyone about what they do or dont eat, your made perfect thru the Messiah, so what you eat isnt 0f great importance anymore, but it is still The Law to not eat any unclean beast, ive searched every scripture concerning the food ordeal lol imma hungry guy.. and its def. Still apart of the law, Just knowone is to be condemned about it, but make no mistake, its a GOOD thing to not even touch those unclean animals, but if you condemn som1 for eating pork or etc.. your good deed will be turned into a evil one...
      But Sabbath now thats a different story and its something we all should rejoice in together every week from Friday night to saturday night.  And it should be taught to our children, and you should start working on Sundays and Stop working on Saturdays. The word Sabbath means Rest or to cease, Hebrews in new testament explains we should try our utemost to keep that sabbath. 
      If anyone has any questions for me at all, id enjoy digging into all of this, my question would be how is it, all these life long followers are overlooking so much in the word? Another ex. Paul said I believe in Corinthians it was, that while a man is praying or prophsying, He is NOT to cover his head, and if he does cover his head he dishonors The Messiah, and that a woman IS supposed to cover her head while praying and prophsying and if she dosent, then she dishonors Man..says The head of the woman is man, the head of man is The Messiah and The Head of The Messiah is YHWH or The Father.. replaced with The false title the Lord in most versions.
    • By Jonathan BeWell
      Praise the Lord, hallelujah!
      Praise You, God, for your purity and perfection!  Praise You Lord, Jesus Christ, for saving me and my testimony!  Glory be to You, God, our Father who art in Heaven!  Thanks be to the Holy Spirit's comfort, teaching and guidance!  All we know, understand, experience and struggle with is for your glory, perfect plan and unquestionable will.  I shall not want or crave anything outside of Jesus Christ's way.  Let me know if so, let me understand what You want for us is best.  May I pick up and carry my own cross, denying myself for You.  I worship You as all knowing, powerful and gracious.  May I draw closer to You and keep You as top priority in my family's lives.  You are first, my family is second and I am here to serve.  May I serve you reverently, fully and completely.  May there be less of me and more of Jesus Christ instead.  Jesus, You are thee only way, light and salvation.  All I need is You.  God, You take care of the rest.  You are in control, God, making and letting everything happen.  I am in awe and wonder of your creation.  I am eternally grateful, worshipping You and your Son for thee ultimate sacrifice and act of love.  This body is your temple, use it as You will.  Bend me from my will to yours.  It is all about You, everything concerns and relates to You!  Yours is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever and ever, in Jesus Christ's name, amen!
      Sincerely yours,
      GregoryB
×
×
  • Create New...