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JoeCanada

The Timing of Christ's Return & Why it Matters

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18 hours ago, Last Daze said:

It's not my theory, its scripture.  Have you read Hebrews 11?

You're saying NT saints have nothing to do with the promise made to Abraham?  Better check again.  Have you ever heard of the times of the Gentiles?  If you're going to make statements like you do, please support them with scripture.  I'm not interested in the doctrines of men.  Did you even bother to check the references I listed?  What does this verses mean to you?

  • And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.  Hebrews 11:39-40

They can only deny the oneness of mankind through Christ by spiritual blindness. It's like a dark mystery. The truth a stunning revelation. I am grateful for such insight and thank my Father for you and the brethren, always.

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2 hours ago, Diaste said:

The is no Jew or Greek, all are one in Christ Jesus.

Only for those who have been baptized into Christ and have clothed themselves with Christ,  Gal 3:26-29

This makes and clarifies the Bride different and separate from Israel and all others.  Baptism by the Holy Spirit.  Acts 1:5b - but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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3 hours ago, Diaste said:

The is no Jew or Greek, all are one in Christ Jesus.

Not a Hebrew Messiah, Jesus is the Messiah of all mankind.

 

That is true.... in the Body of Messiah.  And you are right, that He is the Messiah of all those who believe and trust.  But He is...

The Lion of the Tribe of Judah.  Genesis 49:4, Hosea 5;14

the Son of David.  Luke 1:32.

And every book of the Bible was written by a Hebrew.  Yes, there is some internal and external evidence that Luke was a Hebrew also.   And Paul brought out his Hebrew background several times to make a point.

And I dearly love when people use the "there is neither Jew nor Greek".  They always seem to forget the rest of the passage....

Galatians 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus

It is clearly  speaking in a spiritual sense, not a physical sense.  I defy anyone to take that verse, go to their local congregation, and have some men and women stand in front of the congregation and strip down to their birthday suit and see if there is no difference.  

So, point being, Yeshua is STILL a Hebrew, the Lion of the Tribe of Judah.  Paul is still a Hebrew, of the Tribe of Benjamin. Matthew is still a Hebrew, of the Tribe of Levi, etc.

But we are all one in the Messiah.  We are all parts of the same body but we are not all the same part.

 

 

 

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Hello @OldCoot,

I have appreciated your informative responses very much.


Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

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I think we need to remember this truth.

`For He Himself is our peace, who made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of division between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, SO AS TO CREATE IN HIMSELF ONE NEW MAN FROM THE TWO, thus making peace.` (Eph. 2: 14 & 15)

One wonderful day our earthly bodies will be changed unto like Christ`s - the NEW MAN.

Marilyn.

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Guest 1sheep
19 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Thank you for confirming the point I was trying to make.  That was beautifully stated. 

As the above comment points out, the OT saints and the NT saints make up but one church.  They belonged to Christ as we also belong to Christ.  The new testament writers understood this concept.

  • By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.  Hebrews 11:24-26
  • And all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.  1 Corinthians 10:4

When Jesus returns for His church, the OT saints and the NT saints will together be made immortal.  The OT saints and the NT saints make up the bride of the Lamb.  The OT saints belong to Christ just as the NT saints do.  Simple as that.

  • But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming.  1 Corinthians 15:23

OT saints are Christ's and will be made immortal at the same time that NT saints are.

Your last sentence is not what you stated earlier. I refuted it and now you say differently

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On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 4:37 AM, Last Daze said:

 

  •  

When Jesus returns for His church, the OT saints and the NT saints will together be made immortal.  The OT saints and the NT saints make up the bride of the Lamb.  The OT saints belong to Christ just as the NT saints do.  Simple as that.

  • But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming.  1 Corinthians 15:23

OT saints are Christ's and will be made immortal at the same time that NT saints are.

Hi Last Daze,

Thought I`d write the rest of that verse -

`But each in his own order; Christ the first-fruits, afterwards those who are Christ`s at His coming. Then comes ( a setting out to the ) end when He delivers the kingdom (rule) to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and authority and power. For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.` (1 Cor. 15: 23 - 26)

Thus we see -

- Christ the first-fruits,

- those who are Christ`s at His coming,    (Body of Christ)

- putting an end to all rule and authority and power (in the trib and millennium,) (Israel connected to God through Jesus / symbol - marriage)

- death - great White Throne judgment.

- all rule (kingdom) delivered up to the Father.

- (New Jerusalem city - OT/spirits of just men, (& women Heb. 11) (symbol of bride used to illustrate that these together with the Body of Christ will rule in the visible and invisible realms of God`s great Kingdom, with Christ over all - under the Father).

 

Marilyn.

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The real gist of it concerns the predilection of some to divide people into groups through base understanding. Spiritually, the only understanding that truly matters, there are two groups: saved and unsaved. Everything God designs is geared to the eternal salvation of all people sans any temporal difference. A vital and profound truth is the nature of the people of God. Abraham's spiritual seed is set to inherit the earth and the kingdom. If we are not of the seed of Abraham we inherit death. If groups wish to divide between the Jews, which are both the physical seed and the blind spiritual seed of Abraham, and one of the many divisions of 'Christianity', then they remove themselves from the promises made to the seed of Abraham. If we are not that seed we do not receive of the promises.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ." Galatians 3:16

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:27-29

 

18 hours ago, OldCoot said:

 I defy anyone to take that verse, go to their local congregation, and have some men and women stand in front of the congregation and strip down to their birthday suit and see if there is no difference.  

And the exchange devolves into nonsense yet again.

"Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage.  But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.' - Luke 20

The implication, right or wrong, is that we are transformed and the concept of gender, and it's temporal reality, no longer exists. Several bits of evidence suggest this is true. But you go...

In the mean, prepare for battle, the war is coming.

 

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21 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Only for those who have been baptized into Christ and have clothed themselves with Christ,  Gal 3:26-29

This makes and clarifies the Bride different and separate from Israel and all others.  Baptism by the Holy Spirit.  Acts 1:5b - but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.

In Christ

Montana Marv

And the first people to be baptized in the Holy Spirit were...wait for it....

Jews!

As a matter of spiritual truth there are no 'christians'. This was a moniker coined by mankind at Antioch. Jesus never calls His followers 'Christ-like'. In my mind "Christian" is a misnomer and has now become an affectation.

Truth: We are grafted into the olive tree of the faith of Abraham and are his seed. Any who are in Christ are of the seed of Abraham without respect of person. Claiming there exists Jews and Christians in a spiritual sense is division rejecting the reality of the truth in Christ.

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Here is my original statement:

On 11/2/2018 at 9:02 AM, Last Daze said:

I'm glad you can see how silly it it.  Let's remove the fog of dispensationalism and that should take care of the silliness.

  • The bride of Christ is made up of both OT and NT believers.  That much is plainly stated in Revelation 21.
  • New covenant saints would not even exist if it weren't for the promises made to the old covenant saints.  Old covenant saints aren't completed without the new covenant saints fulfilling those promises.  This is a principle that is explained in Hebrews 11 and stated in verses 39 & 40.  OT believers and NT believers together are a completed, perfect entity.  This relationship between OT prophets & NT saints can also be seen in 1 Peter 1:10-12
  • The church of Jesus Christ is made up of OT and NT believers.  When Jesus returns, His church will be made immortal.  This includes both OT and NT saints since they both belong to Christ through faith.  This is stated in 1 Corinthians 15:23
  • Christ is married to both the OT & NT saints together, when He returns.  They complete each other.  The OT saints don't get incorporated into the bride at some later point.
  • The New Jerusalem in Revelation 21 is the fully adorned bride.  It includes the righteous of the millennial kingdom.

I replied to your post which was meant to refute what I said but it actually substantiated my point.

On 11/2/2018 at 3:37 PM, Last Daze said:

Thank you for confirming the point I was trying to make.  That was beautifully stated. 

As the above comment points out, the OT saints and the NT saints make up but one church.  They belonged to Christ as we also belong to Christ.  The new testament writers understood this concept.

  • By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh’s daughter, choosing rather to endure ill-treatment with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, considering the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt; for he was looking to the reward.  Hebrews 11:24-26
  • And all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.  1 Corinthians 10:4

When Jesus returns for His church, the OT saints and the NT saints will together be made immortal.  The OT saints and the NT saints make up the bride of the Lamb.  The OT saints belong to Christ just as the NT saints do.  Simple as that.

  • But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming.  1 Corinthians 15:23

OT saints are Christ's and will be made immortal at the same time that NT saints are.

To which you said:

21 hours ago, 1sheep said:

Your last sentence is not what you stated earlier. I refuted it and now you say differently

That last sentence that you refer to is in fact what I stated earlier as noted by the red coloring.  You bear a false witness.  Hopefully it was unintentional and just the result of poor reading comprehension.  Regardless, you should be more careful with your accusations.

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