Those Days Will Be Shortened

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, childoftheking said:

I know God did not have that written, but I know many who have used the 70 weeks of Daniel in that fashion and based it upon when Israel officially became a legal nation.

70 weeks in Daniel represents = In the Hebrew, the word translated “weeks” is actually the word “sevens.” So, the text actually says, “Seventy sevens have been decreed…”   this = 490 years!!

In your opinion, what is this event?

I  believe God left Himself the option of a GAP. We see it in Daniel: Daniel left a gap between the 69th week and the 70th  - with events written between. The Gap is the church age in which we are living.

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, childoftheking said:

Calculating Dates

The first person in modern history to calculate the 483 years to the “cutting off” of the Messiah was Sir Robert Anderson in his book, The Coming Prince (1894). Using the decree to Nehemiah issued in 445 B.C. as his starting point, and using what he called “the 360 day prophetic year,” Anderson calculated that it was exactly 173,880 days or 483 lunar years from the day the edict was issued to the day Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem. His calculations placed the crucifixion in the spring of 32 A.D.

And there you have it, Daniel prophesied about the Coming of the Messiah (Yeshua), not about the 7 year Tribulation!!

These are Seminary notes i have from biblical scholars I personally learned from:

Maybe Seminary is something you should clearly entertain, to help you understand prophecy!!

Thanks, but I prefer learning from the Master. Yes, I enjoyed "The Coming Prince." I think he nailed it. But others think he had mistakes. However, His calculation did not use the 70th week, because He knew that was still future.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, childoftheking said:

John knew who the Dragon was the many times he witnessed Yeshua speaking to Demons and casting them out.   John the Beloved, was given great insight from Yeshua (read the Gospel of John, unlike the other Gospels and the depth is obviously greater than that of Matthew-Mark-Luke).   He was alone in Patmos with nothing but time between himself and God.   The Dragon would be no secret when he witnessed Yeshua calling Peter "the Adversary," when Peter wanted to stop Yeshua from going to Jerusalem to die.   John knew this Dragon when Yeshua described watching him fall as lightning.   John, of all of the Disciples, knew who the ENEMY was before ever writing about the enemy.

So NO, the 12th Chapter is a prophetic and spiritual chapter, not a history lesson John decided to add to Revelations!!

You really don't read well. It is no wonder we disagree.  Jesus Himself said it was the first five verses that was the history lesson.  Why? John was the youngest Disciple. He was younger that Jesus. In other words, King Herod killing the babies in Bethlehem happened before John was born.  I do suspect John was told about it though.  What John did not know is the rest of this chapter: God was revealing to John what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the week.

By the way, since you mentioned it, do you know what was happening when Jesus said He saw Satan fall from heaven?

So YES, the first five verses of Rev. 12 WAS a history lesson for John: it was Jesus telling John via the vision and very symbolically how Satan tried to kill Him as a young child.  This happened perhaps 1 BC or 1 or 2 AD, depending on when Jesus was born. John was not yet born. Just so you will know: these first five verses have NOTHING to do with the midpoint of the 70th week.

Edited May 1, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, childoftheking said:

the Event represents:

The prophecy begins by stating that six things will be accomplished regarding the Jewish people during a period of 490 years:

• “Finish the transgression”
• “Make an end of sin”
• “Make atonement for iniquity”
• “Bring in everlasting righteousness”
• “Seal up vision and prophecy”
• “Anoint the most holy place”

Let’s take a moment to consider the meaning of these six prophecies. The first, “finish the transgression,” refers to the Jew’s rejection of God. The Hebrew word translated “transgression” connotes the idea of rebellion, and the rebellion of the Jewish people is their rejection of Jesus as their Messiah. Jesus said He would not return until the Jewish people are willing to say, “Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord” (Matthew 23:37-39). The Jews will open their hearts to their Messiah before Daniel’s 490 year period ends.

The period will also witness an “end of sin” for the Jews. The word translated “sin” refers to the sins of daily life — sins of dishonesty and immorality. This end of sin will occur at the time the Jews accept their Messiah and His earthly reign of righteousness begins.

An atonement for Israel’s sins is the third thing that will happen during Daniel’s 70 weeks of years. This atonement occurred, of course, when Jesus shed His blood on the Cross for the sins of the world. But that atonement will not actually be applied to the Jews until they appropriate it by accepting Jesus as their Messiah.

The 490 year period will also “bring in everlasting righteousness.” This undoubtedly refers to the establishment of the Messiah’s earthly reign when the earth will be flooded with peace, righteousness and justice as the waters cover the sea.

The fifth achievement will be the fulfillment of all prophecy concerning the Messiah. The Apostle Peter referred to two types of Messianic prophecy — those related to “the sufferings of Christ” and those concerning “the glories to follow” (1 Peter 1:11). The suffering prophecies were all fulfilled at the Cross. The prophecies concerning “the glories to follow”are yet to be fulfilled. Just as Jesus was humiliated in history, He is going to be glorified in history. This will occur when the Jews accept Him, and He returns to reign over the world from Mt. Zion in Jerusalem.

The final goal to be achieved at the end of the 70 weeks of years is “the anointing of the most holy.” Most English translations say “the most holy place.” The Hebrew simply says, “the most holy.” 

The Starting Point

Daniel says all these spiritual goals will be accomplished within a special period of 490 years. When did that period begin, and when did it end? It is when Daniel addresses these questions that he begins to give clues as to the timing of the First and Second Advents of the Messiah.

The prophecy says that the starting point of the 70 weeks of years will be “the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem” (Daniel 9:25). Keep in mind that this prophecy was given to Daniel by the angel Gabriel during the time of Israel’s exile in Babylon. The approximate date was 538 B.C., shortly before the first remnant of Jews were allowed to return to Jerusalem in 536 B.C. under Zerubbabel. Jerusalem was in ruins at this time, having been destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar 70 years earlier in 586 B.C. (The captivity had begun in 605 B.C., before the destruction of Jerusalem, when Nebuchadnezzar took Daniel and other “youths” to Babylon as hostages — Daniel 1:1-4.)

The crucial question relates to when the decree was issued “to restore and rebuild Jerusalem.” There are three possible dates:

• 538 B.C. — Cyrus, King of Persia, issued a decree to Zerubbabel to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (2 Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-3; and Ezra 6:1-5).
• 457 B.C. — Artaxerxes, King of Persia, issued a decree to Ezra authorizing him to reinstitute the Temple services, appoint judges and magistrates, and teach the Law (Ezra 7:11-26).
• 445 B.C. — Artaxerxes issued a decree to Nehemiah to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem (Nehemiah 2:1-8).

On the surface, the third decree, the one issued to Nehemiah, seems to be the most obvious candidate for the starting date of the prophecy, for it is the only one that specifically relates to the rebuilding of the city. For that reason, most commentators have selected it as the beginning of the 70 weeks of years.

DANIEL'S 70 WEEKS REPRESENT THE COMING OF THE MESSIAH (YESHUA)!!

And You have equated the Wonderful Prophecy of the coming MESSIAH to the rule of the ANTICHRIST in Tribulation!!

Just WOW!!

That is almost BLASPHEMOUS!!

What you have written is MYTH at best. You have MISSED a very important detail so your entire argument is flawed.

Dan. 9

²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Notice: 7 weeks  - perhaps for the streets and the wall.
 after (7 plus) threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off   After 69 Weeks

but not for himself   He died for US. He is still after the 62 weeks but has not arrive at the 70th.

the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city  Note carefully, this is AFTER the 69 but BEFORE the 70th.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week  Finally Daniel has arrived at the 70th week...AFTER a gap. 

Daniel Himself, writing under the unction of the Holy Spirit, inserted a GAP between the 69th week and the 70th. What ever happened in 70 AD was IN THE GAP. In other words, OUTSIDE the 69 weeks and the 70th week. 

The truth, my friend: the 70th week is FUTURE.  My question to you is, why is this not taught in the seminaries?  I can tell you the reason: they use human reasoning, without trying to wait on God for His wisdom  and revelation. 

YOU and many others imagine that AFTER 69 weeks must be inside the 70th. Sorry, Daniel and the Holy Spirit disagree. 

By the way, those 6 prophecies will NOT all be fulfilled until the future 70th week. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

2 hours ago, childoftheking said:

A Bible based site that refuses to allow biblical charts...someone out there afraid of the TRUTH?

 

It was probably wrong anyway: most of them are. For example, most of them put the seals inside the 70th week. That is wrong.

Edited May 1, 2019 by iamlamad

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, childoftheking said:

If Daniel wrote this according to the time frames that we know when the kings he mentions ruled (Darius was in his 3rd year, Nebuchadnezzar was in his 1st year of reign etc), that puts this around 600 BC.   490 years from then puts us around 100 BC.   So what event happened in 100 BC since we know this is not about the final 7 year Tribulation?

This is the benefit to Seminary, learning and understanding the HEBREW by which the KJV Old Testament was translated from.   This is another reason I suggest Seminary, because reading this from the original Hebrew explains why this COULD NOT BE the final 7 year Tribulation, or as you suggest the beginning of God's Wrath...

And when you properly apply the original Hebrew, then you can see that it is YOU, WHO are doing what you accused me of doing...creating a wrong hypothesis, by misusing and misinterpreting scripture!!

Almost everything you have written has been myth: so far it seems your seminary training has led you astray, not into truth.

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I  believe God left Himself the option of a GAP. We see it in Daniel: Daniel left a gap between the 69th week and the 70th  - with events written between. The Gap is the church age in which we are living.

 

 

OK, I have no issue with that explanation.   But there is already a gap of 100 years from the time Daniel wrote this prophecy, until the 70 weeks began, in order to meet up when the Messiah arrived.   You are now adding a 2,000 year gap from the Messiah to the Tribulation if it began now to fulfill what you believe is a final week in Daniel's prophecy.   that makes a 490 year prophecy needing TWO gaps of 100 years + a gap of 2,000 years and growing.

 

In my opinion, I think that is more than a stretch in order to make Daniel's 70 weeks to be a part of the Tribulation.   That is a lot of time to fulfill 2 prophecies, when it originally was ONLY about ONE PROPHECY (the coming Messiah). 

 

I am sorry, Brother, I do not buy it!!

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

Thanks, but I prefer learning from the Master. Yes, I enjoyed "The Coming Prince." I think he nailed it. But others think he had mistakes. However, His calculation did not use the 70th week, because He knew that was still future.

 

 

My timeline that I was not able to upload, actually proves the Coming Prince was wrong.

That was only mentioned because it was the first attempt at tying it all together.

 

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You really don't read well. It is no wonder we disagree.  Jesus Himself said it was the first five verses that was the history lesson.  Why? John was the youngest Disciple. He was younger that Jesus. In other words, King Herod killing the babies in Bethlehem happened before John was born.  I do suspect John was told about it though.  What John did not know is the rest of this chapter: God was revealing to John what the Dragon would be doing during the last half of the week.

By the way, since you mentioned it, do you know what was happening when Jesus said He saw Satan fall from heaven?

So YES, the first five verses of Rev. 12 WAS a history lesson for John: it was Jesus telling John via the vision and very symbolically how Satan tried to kill Him as a young child.  This happened perhaps 1 BC or 1 or 2 AD, depending on when Jesus was born. John was not yet born. Just so you will know: these first five verses have NOTHING to do with the midpoint of the 70th week.

 

 

READ THESE FIRST 5 VERSES FROM REVELATIONS 12:

1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

 

Now show me where Yeshua claims this is a history lesson?

 

IN FACT, nowhere in Chapter 12 does Yeshua make this claim you suggest he did!!

[childoftheking]

2 hours ago, iamlamad said:

What you have written is MYTH at best. You have MISSED a very important detail so your entire argument is flawed.

Dan. 9

²⁵ Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

²⁶ And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Notice: 7 weeks  - perhaps for the streets and the wall.
 after (7 plus) threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off   After 69 Weeks

but not for himself   He died for US. He is still after the 62 weeks but has not arrive at the 70th.

the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city  Note carefully, this is AFTER the 69 but BEFORE the 70th.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week  Finally Daniel has arrived at the 70th week...AFTER a gap. 

Daniel Himself, writing under the unction of the Holy Spirit, inserted a GAP between the 69th week and the 70th. What ever happened in 70 AD was IN THE GAP. In other words, OUTSIDE the 69 weeks and the 70th week. 

The truth, my friend: the 70th week is FUTURE.  My question to you is, why is this not taught in the seminaries?  I can tell you the reason: they use human reasoning, without trying to wait on God for His wisdom  and revelation. 

YOU and many others imagine that AFTER 69 weeks must be inside the 70th. Sorry, Daniel and the Holy Spirit disagree. 

By the way, those 6 prophecies will NOT all be fulfilled until the future 70th week. 

 

 

Actually, that info was mentioned and was specifically mentioned by the kings who ordered the restoration to begin, which kicked off the 70 weeks.

 

So far, every point you have made goes directly against what most biblical scholars, professors, teachers, preacher believe.   You are way out there on your own.   If you are correct, and EVERYONE ELSE (couple Billion people) are wrong, how come you are (not) TEACHING THEM THE TRUTH?

 

HOW COME GOD HAS NOT PUT YOU INTO A POSITION TO TEACH THE 2 BILLION THE TRUTH?

 

I am pretty certain I understand why, but nevertheless, what say YOU?

Edited May 2, 2019 by childoftheking