Who lies down with the lamb? Memory confusion

[Guest shiloh357]

On ‎11‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 7:41 PM, ForHisGlory37 said:

This would be the Mandela Effect.  It has always been the Lion will lay down with the Lamb.   Our memories are not false.  The devil and his wicked people have somehow supernaturally changed our Scriptures, yes even the very old old bibles that you have had in your houses.  If you google the verses, the images are almost always the Lion and the lamb.  The newer looking ones are with the wolf.  Jesus says He was sending us out among wolves, and to beware of the wolves in sheep's clothing.  Does that make sense to you? 

 

That's just a pile of garbage.    God has preserved His Word and no one not even Satan can change it.  Your approach makes God less than sovereign and that is simply untenable.   The one thing that conspiracy theorists overlook is the power of God in their attempts to make the devil more powerful than God, which is what most conspiracy theories do. Conspiracy theories are anti-biblical and anti-Christian and they are an assault on the character and nature of God.   Conspiracy theories are, by nature, antithetical to authentic, biblical Christianity.

The fact is that this Mandela affect is only about 5 years old and has no actual evidence in support of it.   

And  if Satan were going to change the Bible, it would not be "the lion shall lay down with the lamb." He would make significant changes to doctrine.   

And the Mandela  effect fails when we apply logic and critical thinking.    If all of the Bibles were changed, it would change history as well.  It would change almost every sermon ever written, even the ones indirectly associated with the altered verses. It would also would change the choices people made based on what they heard from the pulpits.   So history would, potentially, be completely different than it is now.

Furthermore, it would require EVERY Hebrew  and Greek Septuagint manuscript, no matter how old, to be changed.    Thus, we would have no record of the change, and given the fact that it altered the historical timeline, we would have no knowledge of such a change.

[Guest shiloh357]

10 hours ago, nebula said:

Thank-you all for the responses.

OK, so I'm scratching my head over where the misquoted expression, "The lion shall lay down with the lamb" came from? And why is it so pervasive that this is what everyone believes the Scripture says? (Not including the Mandela Effect claim.)

The oft used song, "Peace in the Valley."  It is a very famous song and almost every Christian knows and it is the source for "The lion shall lay down with the lamb.  Song writers are good at poetry, but sometimes, are very poor theologians.   The average Christian gets 70% of their theology from music, not from preaching or teaching.  

[nebula]

6 hours ago, ForHisGlory37 said:

When I was a child.  I also remember those wall tapestries hanging on our church walls, the picture of the Lion and the Lamb.  It had the Isaiah 11:6 verse on the bottom of it.  They are not the same since 1611.  They have been supernaturally changed on your bookshelves, in your homes.  The assault mostly on the KJV because it is the most authoritative. 

I just talked to a friend today asking about her father who is a preacher.  I asked her what bible he used and she said he used the KJV.  I also asked how long he has been reading his Bible and does he know Scripture well.  She answered yes, for over 60 years.  I asked her what animal lays down with the lamb, she answered the "lion".  I asked her if she could please call her father and ask him the same question.  She did, he also answered the "lion" as well as her mother.  Both her parents knew their bibles KJV from childhood.  They both declared it was the lion that shall lay down with the lamb.  They were shocked that it now said the "wolf"...

How do you explain that?  These are the old people who studied and read, and memorized Scripture.  They don't have a faulty memory.  What is the explanation? 

While I do not want this thread to be about the Mandela Effect, I do appreciate that you at least are the only one who is acknowledging that this is a huge point of puzzlement and confusion.

[nebula]

8 hours ago, Jayne said:

I gave one in the thread.

The gospel song by Thomas Dorsey and sung/made famous by Elvis Presley has the phrase "the lion will lie down with the lamb".  For those who don't know, Elvis had several gospel albums and sang a lot of hymns and spirituals.  In the south, his gospel albums are highly popular.  My own mother has two of them on CD and plays them in her car all the time.  When I am with her, we sung them sometimes, including "Peace in the Valley" with the Biblically incorrect phrase "lion will like down with the lamb"

You'd be shocked at the wrong Bible information people get from songs, traditions, and faulty commentators/preachers/teachers.

True, but where might this one have come from? So much that no matter how many times people read Isaiah, they miss that it says, "Wolf?"

[nebula]

15 minutes ago, shiloh357 said:

The oft used song, "Peace in the Valley."  It is a very famous song and almost every Christian knows and it is the source for "The lion shall lay down with the lamb.  Song writers are good at poetry, but sometimes, are very poor theologians.   The average Christian gets 70% of their theology from music, not from preaching or teaching.  

Yeah, I know lots of old and new songs have it. It just puzzles me that no one else seemed to notice that the Scripture says "wolf" rather than "lion" until I came upon Mandela Effect theorists. I'm hoping to find a more believable explanation, one that explains how this false belief got started such that it pervaded everyone's thinking, no matter how many times they read Isaiah.

[nebula]

6 minutes ago, maryjayne said:

perhaps because for most of the repliers, this is not a huge point of puzzlement and confusion. I am more puzzled by the OP's assertions to be honest.

If you are referring to the Mandela Effect, I (the OP) didn't start that. I was actually hoping for a good and rational explanation that avoids this theory.

Anyone want to write a song with the wolf lying down with the lamb? It would be interesting to see the backlash that comes from that!

[Guest shiloh357]

21 minutes ago, nebula said:

Yeah, I know lots of old and new songs have it. It just puzzles me that no one else seemed to notice that the Scripture says "wolf" rather than "lion" until I came upon Mandela Effect theorists. I'm hoping to find a more believable explanation, one that explains how this false belief got started such that it pervaded everyone's thinking, no matter how many times they read Isaiah.

It's called alliteration.   It makes for good poetry even if it is not really a good quote from the Bible.  

Its' kind of like the way the song "Jehovah Jireh, My Provider"   Pronounces "Jireh" as "Jye-rah"  instead of the way it should be pronounced, which is "yee-reh."   Jye-rah almost rhymes with "Provider."  I know that's not the same as the "lion and lamb alliteration, but lots of license is taken when it comes to poetry.

[Guest shiloh357]

7 hours ago, ForHisGlory37 said:

It's ok Sojourner... I don't hate you.  I don't really care what you say... I am still going to proclaim the truth and sound the alarm.  You are my brother in Christ and I love you in Christ.  We are to love each other because we are of one Body, One Lord and that is Jesus Christ. 

You are not proclaiming the truth.  There is no truth in what you say.   It just more naïve conspiracy garbage that has no basis in fact.

[GandalfTheWise]

1 minute ago, nebula said:

Yeah, I know lots of old and new songs have it. It just puzzles me that no one else seemed to notice that the Scripture says "wolf" rather than "lion" until I came upon Mandela Effect theorists. I'm hoping to find a more believable explanation, one that explains how this false belief got started such that it pervaded everyone's thinking, no matter how many times they read Isaiah.

Here's my take on it.   People are in general mentally lazy.  As soon as they see something somewhat familiar, they let their memory fill it in and keep on going without paying close attention.  They learn something incorrectly and then keep passing on the incorrect version.  They start reading something, think "oh I know that", and then just keep on going without paying attention.   Just look around on the internet and even this site.  People pass on information, links, references, and information without checking it out for themselves.  There are many people convinced that "God helps those  who help themselves"  is a Bible verse somewhere.  This does not mean it was in the Bible and has now vanished.  It just means that people's preferred method for passing information around and remembering it is prone to error.   As a practical matter, it's the only way we can efficiently operate in life.  If we stopped to error-check every word in every sentence we spoke or wrote, we'd never get anything done.   The vast majority of what we do in life fits the category "close enough".  We don't keep our eyes fixated on the speedometer when driving to make sure we never exceed the speed limit, we keep our eyes on the road and occasionally glance down to adjust our speed.  In reality, our speed goes up and down and we cannot hold it perfectly but that is good enough the vast majority of the time.   We don't use a dictionary for every word we use in a sentence, we usually rely on our memory, and only go to a dictionary when something seems amiss or uncertain.  

It's why when you are doing any type of detailed work such as writing, computer programming, or solving math equations that having a second person look at it helps you catch errors.  For a few decades as a professional, I had no safety net for my technical work.  I developed methods for catching my inevitable errors.  When deriving equations and algorithms, I'd use two or more different approaches to something to compare to each other.  When programming, I developed methods for debugging code that would highlight errors.   It amazed me the number of times I could repeat a derivation, proof-read something I wrote, or re-read some computer code and I'd mentally repeat the same error without catching it.  It's still astounding to me how many spreadsheets and other such code are used in engineering, medical, and other critical fields that people are blissfully unaware of the natural human rate of error when creating such things.

For me, the best error-checking method I've found for reading the Bible is having read it in a few foreign languages.  I've caught a few verses that seemed completely new to me that I know I've had to have read several times before in English but simply don't remember in any manner whatsoever.   There've also been a few like wolf versus lion and lamb that I had remembered incorrectly that reading in a foreign language corrected in my memory.

To me, it's far easier to believe that we have incorrect group-think where we're passed along incorrect information and reinforced it with each other than that some type of comprehensive insidious supernatural occurrence has physically changed every Bible in the world.

[nebula]

2 hours ago, maryjayne said:

No, I am referring to the concept that the Bible has, universally, for decades, been tampered with and all our bibles are wrong. 

That's not what I'm suggesting. I read a few years ago that the NIV "upgraded" its translation. The claim was that new evidence and more recently discovered manuscripts warranted some words and passages to be re-translated. i know of at least one other Bible translation that has done this. So, I asked for an older printed version because this would have before any "upgrades" to the translations would have occured.

Whenever you read the Bible you have to account for the fact that we are reading interpretation of ancient texts in strange foreign languages (I say strange, because if you have ever seen word-for-word translations of either Hebrew or Greek, your head would spin trying to figure out a sentence out of those words!) 

Thus, changes aren't about changing the Bible; changes are about changes to how we translate the Bible.