OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[Heb 13:8]

2 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

Whatever it is, the Word of God says that those who do not keep God's commandments(= do not love God/Jesus) and are dogs(= Gentile unbelievers), sorcerers, sexually immorals, murderers, idolaters and liars do not have the right to the tree of life which bears good fruit/works. The Word of God says that there were once-saved believers who had sinned willfully as mentioned. Even 'Blood Bought 1953' admitted that he enjoyed sinning very much as a once-saved Christian. 

So, OSAS is very likely a false teaching because it goes against the Word of God.

No, OSAS is the result of what Jesus already did 2000 year. Many hear but don't receive the free gift.  Good night

[discipler777]

9 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

15 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

(1COR.3:15) - ... "yet will be saved" only if the burning/suffering sinner still kept the faith or not lost faith or a faith that is not shipwrecked. 

Salvation is by faith. So, it goes without saying that no-salvation is by no-faith.(JOHN.3:18) Willful sins will result in the sinner being burned up and may lead to no-faith or lost-faith or shipwrecked-faith = no-salvation.

His works will be burned up. The builder will suffer loss but will be saved, escaping through the flames.

JOB.2:7-10 (NKJV) = 7 So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord, and struck Job with painful boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head. 8 And he took for himself a potsherd with which to scrape himself while he sat in the midst of the ashes.

9 Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”

10 But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.

[discipler777]

4 minutes ago, Heb 13:8 said:

7 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

Whatever it is, the Word of God says that those who do not keep God's commandments(= do not love God/Jesus) and are dogs(= Gentile unbelievers), sorcerers, sexually immorals, murderers, idolaters and liars do not have the right to the tree of life which bears good fruit/works. The Word of God says that there were once-saved believers who had sinned willfully as mentioned. Even 'Blood Bought 1953' admitted that he enjoyed sinning very much as a once-saved Christian. 

So, OSAS is very likely a false teaching because it goes against the Word of God.

No, OSAS is the result of what Jesus already did 2000 year. Many hear but don't receive the free gift.  Good night

No, OSAS is the result of false teachings. What Jesus did 2000 years ago to give the free gift of salvation to believers holds true only for those who still keep the faith until their very end. No-more-faith or no-faith = no-salvation, which can apply at any time, especially to unrepentant willful sinners and near the very end of life.

[discipler777]

9 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Right, get saved first and then study scripture. After I came to faith, OSAS was easy to discern. The term "lost" is referring to those who are not born again. Consider who Jesus was talking to in Jhn 10 when He mentions the gate of salvation, the working Pharisees...

Jhn 6:35-40 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

JOHN.6 & 10 are referring to the 11 apostles of Christ, ...

JOHN.17:12 (NKJV) = 12 While I was with them [e]in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

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The apostles could do all kinds of miracles, signs and wonders. Can OSAS adherents do the same.? If once-believing Judas Iscariot could be lost to perdition/hell, why not once-saved Christians.?

Likely, Judas joined the unbelieving Jews in desiring for a Christ/Messiah who would defeat the foreign Roman rulers and gift them back their kingdom of earth, ie Israel/Judah(JOHN.6:15). Hence he elected to betray Jesus Christ to the Jewish Temple authorities.

[discipler777]

9 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

10 hours ago, Butero said:

There are things you can do to lose salvation, not to get and keep it.

It's not about you Butero, it's about Christ and what He already did for you on the cross.

What Christ did for believers on the Cross does not mean that they will never commit sins(1COR.5:1-13) and/or will never lose their salvation or faith.

It all depends on how the believers respond to the love of God/Christ. Humans are created with free will or the freedom of choice to obey or disobey local laws, religious laws or God/Christ - they are not choice-less or will-less robots. Christians are not robots under the complete control of the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit is the Helper of Christians, like a friendly personal assistant. Misled Christians may fire their Helper or friendly personal Assistant, eg by not heeding the Holy Spirit of God to unrepentantly sin willfully or follow after deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons.

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Edited December 5, 2018 by discipler777

[Blood Bought 1953]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

In which all sin is covered under the blood, past present and future.

 

Even 'Blood Bought 1953' admitted that he enjoyed sinning very much as a once-saved Christian

 

As usual, taking half a quote with the intent to mislead.The Author Of Hebrews talks about the pleasure of sin—- For a season! We are running a race and Satan knows how to trip us up with the sins that “ so easily beset us.”  We all have areas of weakness and Satan knows what they are. If one is hot- tempered, it is pleasurable to give in to that voice that tells you to yell and throw a tantrum to unleash the rage inside you. How about later though? Did you not feel ashamed after time had past? It felt good for a little while didn’t it? For a season it did. Doesn’t it feel good to loosen the pants and eat your favorite food till you were absolutely stuffed.Being A glutton sure feels good.For a season.Sometimes you’d almost sell your soul for some alka- seltzer after having the fun of eating like a pig.

 Do you think that David didn’t enjoy  his sinning with Bathsheba  or that Sampson did not enjoy his time spent with heathen prostitutes?

Yes, David and Sampson and others that are lauded as Heroes of Faith in Hebrews took Satan’s bait  , enjoyed it immensely and lived to suffer grave consequences for letting themselves get tripped up in things that were wrong.Knowingly wrong, knowingly willfully sinning.Their deeds were terrible—- just don’t say they were not pleasurable.

Satan has tripped me up many times in my Christian walk.....if his temptations did not carry with them the hope of deriving pleasure from them they would not be true temptations.As time passes he doesn’t trip me up near as many times as he did when I was a young Christian.That is because  like David or Sampson I have been chastised when I give in to A “ pleasure” that turned out to be a lie in the end.

It is part of God’s transforming us that we realize that what used to be “ fun” for us has lost its    appeal.Besetting sins become less of an entanglement for us as God changes the inside of the cup. Our “ wants” line up with His “wants” eventually, but to deny the temporary pleasures of sin is a dangerous fairy tale.

 

 

[discipler777]

7 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

7 hours ago, Butero said:

If you reject my view, you reject God's view based on rightly dividing scripture.  

God is Grace, not works. You preach works, nothing i can do to lose my salvation

Well, you can do homosex or sodomy or blasphemy or idolatry willfully and unrepentantly, and see if you will lose your salvation. ...

1COR.6:9-10 (NKJV) = Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[discipler777]

9 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

13 hours ago, Butero said:

Nobody is saving themselves whether they believe OSAS or reject it.

 

Rejection of OSAS is not really the issue....it is a rejection of the Gospel thAt gets one in trouble .....the first half of the GOSPEL specifically......that part that says Jesus died for our sins....some just don’t believe it.And the biggest problem these guys have is where they add to the Gospel with lucky repentance before you die.They are preaching an “ accursed” Message.I believe Nothing But The Blood. Period.End Of story .Jesus saves. Period.I may be guilty of many things , but I am not guilty of the one thing Paul guarantees will send you to Hell, and it’s not willful sins and it is not having unrepentant sin at the time of your death—- he could have mentioned either or both of those things when he discussed being accursed.He did not.He warned against works.As one of our friends here proclaimed.....” trying to be saved”.He is afraid to trust . They one thing God demands.

The irony of your anti-anti-OSAS post is that as an OSAS adherent, you should also be believing that anti-OSAS adherents are also "once saved ALWAYS saved", no matter what they do as anti-OSAS adherents. Instead, you contradict your own OSAS teachings by condemning anti-OSAS adherents as unsaved or accursed or rejecters of the Gospel and preaching an "accursed" message. So, your own words have proven that OSAS is false.

IOW, if OSAS, anti-OSAS adherents are also OSAS. No.?

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Edited December 5, 2018 by discipler777

[discipler777]

2 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

The Author Of Hebrews talks about the pleasure of sin—- For a season! We are running a race and Satan knows how to trip us up with the sins that “ so easily beset us.”  We all have areas of weakness and Satan knows what they are. If one is hot- tempered, it is pleasurable to give in to that voice that tells you to yell and throw a tantrum to unleash the rage inside you. How about later though? Did you not feel ashamed after time had past? It felt good for a little while didn’t it? For a season it did. Doesn’t it feel good to loosen the pants and eat your favorite food till you were absolutely stuffed.Being A glutton sure feels good.For a season.Sometimes you’d almost sell your soul for some alka- seltzer after having the fun of eating like a pig.

 Do you think that David didn’t enjoy  his sinning with Bathsheba  or that Sampson did not enjoy his time spent with heathen prostitutes?

Yes, David and Sampson and others that are lauded as Heroes of Faith in Hebrews took Satan’s bait  , enjoyed it immensely and lived to suffer grave consequences for letting themselves get tripped up in things that were wrong.Knowingly wrong, knowingly willfully sinning.Their deeds were terrible—- just don’t say they were not pleasurable.

Satan has tripped me up many times in my Christian walk.....if his temptations did not carry with them the hope of deriving pleasure from them they would not be true temptations.As time passes he doesn’t trip me up near as many times as he did when I was a young Christian.That is because  like David or Sampson I have been chastised when I give in to A “ pleasure” that turned out to be a lie in the end.

It is part of God’s transforming us that we realize that what used to be “ fun” for us has lost its    appeal.Besetting sins become less of an entanglement for us as God changes the inside of the cup. Our “ wants” line up with His “wants” eventually, but to deny the temporary pleasures of sin is a dangerous fairy tale.

Yes, David, Samson and yourself were sinners/evildoers and may have ended up alright. But the question is, should new once-saved Christians be taught to follow the examples of David, Samson and yourself, ie go and commit murder, adultery, fornication and other sins/evil-works/Law-breaking or submitting to the pleasures of the flesh.? If so, they risk losing their salvation by the loss of faith while suffering for their sins or suffering death throes.?(cf 1JOHN.5:16-17, 1COR.11:30 & 5:5) Not every once-saved Christian can end up to be as lucky as David, Paul and yourself.

Seems, as an OSAS adherent, you are teaching and condoning willful sins by new once-saved Christians as "normal", instead of warning them about the perils of willful sins of the flesh and not progressing spiritually(HEBREWS.6:1-8 & 10:26-31), especially new Gentile Christians. It's like you teaching kids to play with fire and get burned so that they will learn to not play with fire. Imagine if you or other new once-saved Christians were still enjoying sinning very much in the flesh and then got cursed by God with a deadly curse = might have lost salvation.

So, OSAS is likely a false teaching that may shipwreck the faith of new once-saved Christians.

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Edited December 5, 2018 by discipler777

[discipler777]

7 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

11 hours ago, Butero said:

We are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  

 

Notice it does not say to spend your life this way..... it is talking about a one- time event.....it is experiencing the fact that one is truly a hell Bound  sinner Without hope.......and then you see that God has come to your rescue despite your worthlessness.....it forms  the basis for the rest of you Christian life....we experience His Amazing Grace and Love and out of gratitude of what God did for us, we are truly motivated to live a life obedient to our Father.

HEBREWS.10:26-31 (NKJV) = 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “TheLord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.