OSAS is the result of the finished work of the cross

[discipler777]

  44 minutes ago, discipler777 said:

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Fyi, God loves the do-gooders, blameless, morally upright, those who fear Him and shun evil(JOB.1:8), and repentant sinners/evildoers(eg Paul and King David) but hates unrepentant and willful sinners/evildoers/Law-breakers. So do I. Don't you.?

It is a fearful thing for unrepentant and willful sinners to fall into the hands of God, especially mature Christians who fall away from the faith(HEBREWS.10:26-31 & 6:1-8). .......

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PROVERBS.6:16-19 (NKJV) = 16 These six things the Lord hates,
Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.

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HOSEA.9:15-17 = Judgment of Israel’s Sin

15 “All their wickedness is in Gilgal, For there I hated them.
Because of the evil of their deeds I will drive them from My house; I will love them no more. All their princes are rebellious.
16 Ephraim is stricken, Their root is dried up; They shall bear no fruit.
Yes, were they to bear children, I would kill the darlings of their womb.”

17 My God will cast them away, Because they did not obey Him; And they shall be wanderers among the nations.

 

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ROMANS.9:13 =  13 As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”

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43 minutes ago, 1sheep said:

pot to kettle.....

Jacob and Esau were not "pot to kettle".

Peter and Judas Iscariot were not "pot to kettle".

Repentant sinners/Law-breakers and unrepentant sinners are not "pot to kettle".

Wheat and Tares/Chaff are not "pot to kettle".

Sheep and goats are not "pot to kettle".

5 Wise Virgins and 5 Foolish Virgins are not "pot to kettle".

Non-OSASers and OSASers are not "pot to kettle". 

OSAS is likely a doctrine of demons because he who sins is of the devil(1JOHN.3:8).

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Edited December 10, 2018 by discipler777

[frienduff thaylorde]

5 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I hope Newbies will check out his Masterpieces.....his commentaries about Romans and Galations are truly inspired .....much of his later stuff was less inspired ......I strongly oppose his errors.......but he got a lot of stuff RIGHT.......He rescued the lost message of Paul.....thanks to the abundance of Legalists we have today, thank God that He has sent wise teachers we can listen to to rediscover the lost Gospel of Grace.....Dr. Ralph “Yankee” Arnold is a great example.

 I notice that too.    It seemed the further along in time luther went he started really falling away from sound doctrine . 

[Montana Marv]

2 hours ago, discipler777 said:

@Montana Marv

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We are now on Page 60 of this thread = after about 600 posts. All the Scripture you quoted have already been debunked on this thread, eg your quote of JOHN.10:28-29 to prove OSAS ... actually only applied to the 11 Apostles of Jesus Christ and not to every ordinary Christians after them, as per JOHN.17:12. For the "special" 11 Apostles, once saved, no one could pluck them out of God's hands except for the lost son of perdition/hell(= Judas Iscariot). This did not/does not apply to every ordinary Christians except for the elected of God as per His Word, eg MATTHEW.7:15-23 = how to know false prophets/teachers/Christians from true prophets/teachers/Christians, ie by their fruits/works/words. Who does God/Jesus love and ensure that no one pluck them out of His hands.?(cf JOHN.14:21-24)

You ignore anti-OSAS Scripture like how most OSASers and yourself have also ignored the Old Testament Law of God. 

As per MATTHEW.4:1-11, Satan doesn't just quote Scripture - he misquote, falsely interpret and interpret out of context the Scripture and when these dirty tactics fail, he then makes tempting offers to secure allegiance and worship. 1JOHN.3:8 says that those who sin or do evil or break the commandments are of the devil = their take on the Scripture is the same as Satan's. Only God is right wrt His Word or Scripture or Bible. The man of God is to base his understanding and debates on the Scripture or Word of God(2TIMOTHY.3:16-17) or on what is right in the eyes of God and not on what is right in his/her own eyes or his/her own fancies(DEUT.12:8 & 13:18), eg a 66 y o Christian man who fancies being a chick-magnet in his own eyes.

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Who does the Redeeming? That is all we need to know.

When in life does this process take place, we do not know. If it Takes place.

Who has the Power to Redeem, not us.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[frienduff thaylorde]

11 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

Believers lose crowns and rewards at the Bema, not salvation Cletus.

The term apostasy is only in reference to nonbelievers who had the knowledge of Christ but hadn't received the free gift. Read 2 Pet 2. The 17 things in Rom 8 cover all basis including future, demons etc etc etc.......

Pay attention now, don't fall asleep........

1 Jhn 3:6 No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

Jhn 14:17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

Right, we produce fruits of righteousness not to save ourselves but rather because we believe on Him who keeps us saved. Godly righteousness, not self righteousness

Eternal life is for those who believe and confess, Rom 10:9. In regards to Luke 8:13, Matthew and Mark use the words "trouble and persecution" and Paul says neither trouble or persecution can separate us from God.

Again, Luke is referring to those who have the knowledge of Christ but not the free gift.

Matt 13:21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Mark 4:17 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?

Why are you using allegories to discredit the blood of Christ?

Anyone else notice when it don't fit his belief , he keeps calling it allegories .   I wonder what other alleogries that oppose his other personal beliefs are out their .

Yall got no idea how dangerous it is to dimiss things JESUS said , calling it an allegory cause it don't line up with what MEN TUAGHT .

They do this with the second coming too .   They do this with a lot of things .

I have watched men say when paul talks about the rapture ,  THIS IS AN ALLEGORY .     What else we gonna call allegories , just cause it don't line up with a teaching man gave .

Paul was not speaking of an allegory when he spoke of the rapture , nor when he told the church IF you continue in HIS goodness otherwise you will be cut off.

THAT is point blank saying it .   Just like JESUS did .  You pick and choose what YOU deem as an alleogory , but never forget many others will do the same .

Ever wonder why we got so many cults and teachings abounding these days .   

Yall, we should seriously start over .  And just read for ourselves .    Pray seek and knock and in time things become clearer and clearer .

 

[frienduff thaylorde]

17 hours ago, Heb 13:8 said:

in which Rom 11 is also using allegory language, strike two friend

I imagine their will be many strikes ,   MANY ALLEGORIES if ya know what I mean .    For when scriptures oppose what men do teach ,   WELL they SURELY must be ALLEGORIES .

GO and learn what this means .  

[Heb 13:8]

2 minutes ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I imagine their will be many strikes ,   MANY ALLEGORIES if ya know what I mean .    For when scriptures oppose what men do teach ,   WELL they SURELY must be ALLEGORIES .

GO and learn what this means .  

Jhn 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Using Parables and allegories to discredit His blood or say it's not finished because He's talking in parables is false.

The Purpose of Jesus' Parables
(Mark 4:10-12; Luke 8:9,10)

10Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

11He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’

14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:

‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

15For this people’s heart has grown callous;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts,

and turn,

and I would heal them.’

16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

[Heb 13:8]

9 hours ago, Cletus said:

Why are you using allegories to discredit the blood of Christ?... I am not.  i am showing you with scripture we can fall away or walk away from God.  why do you discredit Gods words by calling it an allegory?  does Jesus words not say exactly what i am saying?  it does.  even in the greek it does.  why do you ignore His words?  because you want something to be true so bad you will put blinders on to what Jesus actually did say? 

Rom 11 and Jhn 15 are allegories Cletus.

Jhn 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Using Parables and allegories to discredit His blood or say it's not finished because He's talking in parables is false.

The Purpose of Jesus' Parables
(Mark 4:10-12; Luke 8:9,10)

10Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

11He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:

‘Though seeing, they do not see;

though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’

14In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:

‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;

you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

15For this people’s heart has grown callous;

they hardly hear with their ears,

and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,

hear with their ears,

understand with their hearts,

and turn,

and I would heal them.’

16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. 17For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

 

[discipler777]

23 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

2 hours ago, discipler777 said:

@Montana Marv

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We are now on Page 60 of this thread = after about 600 posts. All the Scripture you quoted have already been debunked on this thread, eg your quote of JOHN.10:28-29 to prove OSAS ... actually only applied to the 11 Apostles of Jesus Christ and not to every ordinary Christians after them, as per JOHN.17:12. For the "special" 11 Apostles, once saved, no one could pluck them out of God's hands except for the lost son of perdition/hell(= Judas Iscariot). This did not/does not apply to every ordinary Christians except for the elected of God as per His Word, eg MATTHEW.7:15-23 = how to know false prophets/teachers/Christians from true prophets/teachers/Christians, ie by their fruits/works/words. Who does God/Jesus love and ensure that no one pluck them out of His hands.?(cf JOHN.14:21-24)

You ignore anti-OSAS Scripture like how most OSASers and yourself have also ignored the Old Testament Law of God. 

As per MATTHEW.4:1-11, Satan doesn't just quote Scripture - he misquote, falsely interpret and interpret out of context the Scripture and when these dirty tactics fail, he then makes tempting offers to secure allegiance and worship. 1JOHN.3:8 says that those who sin or do evil or break the commandments are of the devil = their take on the Scripture is the same as Satan's. Only God is right wrt His Word or Scripture or Bible. The man of God is to base his understanding and debates on the Scripture or Word of God(2TIMOTHY.3:16-17) or on what is right in the eyes of God and not on what is right in his/her own eyes or his/her own fancies(DEUT.12:8 & 13:18), eg a 66 y o Christian man who fancies being a chick-magnet in his own eyes.

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Who does the Redeeming? That is all we need to know.

When in life does this process take place, we do not know. If it Takes place.

Who has the Power to Redeem, not us.

The topic of this thread is about OSAS or "Once Saved ALWAYS Saved", and not about Who does the saving/redeeming or how is one saved.? That's basic or elementary Christianity(eg JOHN.3:14-18 - "For God so loved the world that He .......")

Will a "Once Saved" Christian who go and sin some more or repeatedly sin the same sin willfully and unrepentantly, be still "Always Saved".? Or will he/she be "Not Always Saved" or "May Not Be Saved".?

If you are an OSASer, please provide Scripture as proofs, besides those already provided by "Blood Bought 1953" and other OSASers on this thread which have already been debunked by properly interpreted Scripture, eg JOHN.10:28-29 vs JOHN.17:11-12. .......

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HEBREWS.6:1-8 (NKJV) = The Peril of Not Progressing

6 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will do if God permits.

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

[discipler777]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

1 hour ago, frienduff thaylorde said:

I imagine their will be many strikes ,   MANY ALLEGORIES if ya know what I mean .    For when scriptures oppose what men do teach ,   WELL they SURELY must be ALLEGORIES .

GO and learn what this means .  

Jhn 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

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JOHN.14:15-24 (NKJV) = Jesus Promises Another Helper

15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Indwelling of the Father and the Son

19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me.Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”

22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, “Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?”

23 Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.

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As I said earlier, according to MATTHEW.4:1-11, Satan doesn't just quote Scripture - he misquotes, falsely interprets and interprets out of context the Scripture and when these dirty tactics fail, he then makes tempting offers to secure allegiance and worship. 1JOHN.3:8 says that those who sin or do evil or break the commandments of God are of the devil = their take on the Scripture is the same as Satan's, as demonstrated by "Heb 13:8" above, ie he misquotes Scripture to support OSAS.

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Edited December 10, 2018 by discipler777

[discipler777]

1 hour ago, Heb 13:8 said:

11 hours ago, Cletus said:

Why are you using allegories to discredit the blood of Christ?... I am not.  i am showing you with scripture we can fall away or walk away from God.  why do you discredit Gods words by calling it an allegory?  does Jesus words not say exactly what i am saying?  it does.  even in the greek it does.  why do you ignore His words?  because you want something to be true so bad you will put blinders on to what Jesus actually did say? 

Rom 11 and Jhn 15 are allegories Cletus.

Jhn 14:16-18 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.

Using Parables and allegories to discredit His blood or say it's not finished because He's talking in parables is false.

The Purpose of Jesus' Parables
(Mark 4:10-12; Luke 8:9,10)

10Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”

11He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:

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The point is that you have rejected anti-OSAS Scripture at ROMANS.11 and JOHN.15 as allegories or parables. If that is the case, you should reject all the parables and allegories in the Bible/Scripture. In effect, you and other OSASers are pickers and choosers of Scripture.

Didn't Jesus Christ explained the Parable of the Sower and the Parable of the Tares to His apostles.? Those who are spiritual will understand His parables, allegories and symbolism. .......

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ROMANS.11:19-24 (NKJV) = Israel’s Rejection Not Final

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

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JOHN.15:1-8 = The True Vine

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.

5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you,you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. 8 By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.

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MATTHEW.7:15-20 = You Will Know Them by Their Fruits

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

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GALATIANS.5:19-26 = 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. 24 And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

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Edited December 10, 2018 by discipler777