Repentance

[tsth]

Dear jmwhalen,

I would be curious to know how you receive these passages? What do they mean to you? Since this thread has seemingly bothered you.

In His Love,

Suzanne

1 Peter 1

13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." 17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

2 Peter 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; 

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. 10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous. 13 Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

What is that power?

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, 3 as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, 4 by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Meditate on these things, that you might understand and receive these Words.

In His Love,

Suzanne

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[dgolvach]

James 2:10 ("whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all")

Kansas Dad...I believe that even my small "thought" sins are enough to keep me out of heaven. Thats why I see grace the way I do. Still, I would say that there is quite a difference between thought sins and child molestation. The latter is an as you put it, an atrocity. For sure!

Dan

[jmwhalen]

What do you mean by don't play God for a fool?

The Bible even says that demons know who Jesus is, but are the demons going to heaven.  I don't think so.  The problem is that people are trying to separate Faith, Works, and Grace, and they can't be separated.  It is through Gods Grace that we are saved.  We all sin and can never earn our way into heaven.  It is because we have faith in Jesus Christ that God gives us his grace.  But Faith with out works is DEAD.  It is not faith at all.  God will spit it our and cast it away.  I don't care how many times you say the magic words if you don't have faith you will not receive his grace and you will not get into heaven.  If you do not have "good works" you do not have faith.  If you do not have faith you have not received his grace and you will not go to heaven.  You can not pick and choose which part you want and ignore the rest.  It all goes together.  Just because you are a "Born again Christian" does not give you license to do whatever you want because you are going to heaven anyway, and if you follow the reasoning above that is exactly what it says.  "God no longer sees the sin in me".  Therefore with that reasoning sin doesn't matter.  Then if sin doesn't matter then I can sin all I want and I still go to heaven.

I'm not buying it!

Kansas Dad

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__________

You are perverting the gospel of Christ, and redefining the biblical defintion of grace=a gift. You cannot work for it, earn it, or merit it. The good news today that we are to proclaim is that the Lord Jesus Christ came in the world to "...save sinners

[nebula]

Works don't save you. This is Scriptural.

However, lack of works (fruit) once saved will only lead you to judgment (how sever the judgment I know is debatable, but it still won't be pretty). This too is Scriptural.

Simple?

[jmwhalen]

Dear jmwhalen,

I would be curious to know how you receive these passages?  What do they mean to you?  Since this thread has seemingly bothered you.

In His Love,

Suzanne

1 Peter 1

13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, "Be holy, for I am holy." 17 And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one's work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; 18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers, 19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.

2 Peter 3:11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;

[jmwhalen]

Sorry-repost:

TSTH wrote:

I would be curious to know how you receive these passages? What do they mean to you? Since this thread has seemingly bothered you......Meditate on these things, that you might understand and receive these Words"

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Any statements that pervert the gospel of Christ, and the doctrine given to the Body of Christ in this dispensation(Romans-through Philemon), and places people under bondage, whether that be in the form of "lordship salvation", or a performanced=based system, does bother me-it bothered Paul(Galatians 1), and it should you, for:

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

1 Tim. 2:3,4

http://www.graceforall.net/No%20compromise_whalen.htm

Do you understand justification in this "...dispensation of the grace of God..."(Eph. 3:2)?

I noticed you quoted primarily from passages outside of Romans through Philemon. All scripture is for our learning(Romans 15:4), but not for our obedience. While we can glean many spiritual applications/warnings from all of scriptures(1 Cor. 10:11, 2 Tim. 3:16), including the Peter/John passages you quoted, not all scripture is written about us, or to us, or given as doctrine to us. Hebrews through Revelation is written doctrinally to Jews during the Great Tribulation, not to the Body of Christ. You must "rightly divide the word of truth"(2 Tim. 2:15).

Your quoting of Titus 2:12: Grace appeared to all men, not to a particular people, and it did not bring them nutriment for their passions, their lusts, but nourishment for their souls. It did not demand righteousness("good works")from men, but brought righteousness(of God) to them. They needed righteousness. And so grace overleaped every obstacle in order to reach every man and to discipline them(2:12), so that in relation to himself he should be sober, righteous, and in relation to God, pious. Grace has appeared; the glory will appear(2:13). And grace, not the law, disciplines the believer as to his conduct while waiting for the glory, which in turn is to crown him(rewards). This verse is written to believers already justified, and is stressing that we were justified, and this grace instructs/santctifies us FOR GOOD WORKS. Only those sanctified by God are used for good works.

May I suggest you "Meditate and receive this":

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Ephesians 3:9

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Much of the confusion in "Christianity" stems from failure to rightly divide the word of truth(2 Tim. 2:15), mainly in not distinguishing in the divisions in the Bible, the most important being the 2 following main divisions:

The prophetic program- which is God's purpose to establish a literal, physical, earthly, Davidic, Messianic kingdom("...as the days of heaven upon the earth

[Christ's Free Servant]

Who are the ones telling you of the Power of the grace of God in us to overcome.  If I tell you it is possible to overcome habitual sin, do you think I would be struggling with something currently?  I am either (A) lying, or (B) ignoring sin.  Only I would know the truth.  So if I said I am not currently struggling with habitual sin, would you even believe me?  I am not Dan.  But, that is not to say that I won't be in the future.  I could come upon a temptation soon.  In fact at any moment.  So, I keep myself girded up each and every day, with fervent prayer and conversation with my Savior, and time filling myself with the Word of God, which is able to fend off any sin, if I listen to the Holy Spirit within me.  He guides and keeps us.  We only have to listen, when He speaks.  (oh, and by the way, anger is not a sin, unless it is without cause or if it causes you to sin, but anger in itself is not a sin.)  I have been angry a time or two. 

In His Love,

Suzanne

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Me, too!!

[Christ's Free Servant]

Works don't save you.  This is Scriptural.

However, lack of works (fruit) once saved will only lead you to judgment (how sever the judgment I know is debatable, but it still won't be pretty).  This too is Scriptural.

Simple?

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I am finding that many people who object to anything that sounds like work-based salvation object because they know they are not living for God and their security rests in the whole God's grace alone saves idea. But, the Bible says that by grace through faith we are saved and not of ourselves, etc. Too many people focus on the "not of ourselves" and assume we have no part to do. If that were so, then why not just say "By grace you are saved and not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, etc.? Because we do have a part, and that part is FAITH.

Now, this is where it gets tricky. Some people believe that just acknowledging Christ as Savior and praying a prayer to receive Christ constitutes faith. But, that is not what scripture teaches about faith. Read Hebrews 11, which is the FAITH chapter of our Bible. It tells us story after story of men and women of God who were considered righteous for their faith, but look how their faith is described. It is by faith that _________ did ___________. Faith is an action word. It is not a feeling or an emotional experience or an acknowledgement of the existence of something. We show our faith by what we do. So, it is a combination of God's grace and our faith that we are saved. We don't have faith to earn salvation. But, the faith is the action that we take to receive the grace already provided.

Repentance is an act of faith. If I say I believe Jesus died to free me from the penalty of and the bondage to sin, and yet I refuse to repent and I continue in my sin, then I'm a liar. To believe in someone or something means putting my trust in that person or object. If I am on the 5th floor of a burning building and the only way to safety is to jump out of the window into a net, that takes faith, and faith is total commitment. There is no half way. I can't stop part way down and hem haw around and vacillate between staying in the burning building or jumping to safety. There is no middle ground. And, I can't hold on to the burning building and try to reach for the safety net, because no. 1, my arms won't stretch that far, and no. 2, the safety net will be set on fire.

But, this is what many people try to do. They think if they acknowledge that Christ died for their sins - I acknowledge that the safety net can save me - and if they "receive" Christ as their savior, whatever that means - I receive the safety net??? - then they are saved. But where is the commitment? Where is the faith? Where is the evidence that faith exists? The Bible says that when Jesus called his disciples that they left EVERYTHING and followed him. That is total commitment! That is what repentance is about. Did the disciples ever mess up? Sure!! Did they ever struggle with lack of faith? Sure!! So, they weren't perfect. But, they were going in the right direction. They were following Christ wherever he led them. They were learning how to obey him. That's what it is all about.

[Christ's Free Servant]

... A dead man cannot be be put on trial.  All believers justified by the grace of God are considered dead, risen, and walking in the newness of life, and that is the resurrected life of the Lord Jesus Christ within us.

In Christ and with Christ,

John M. Whalen

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Jim,

TOO MANY WORDS! Could we possibly get the "Cliff Notes" version of your posts? Would it be possible to condense your thoughts into a few paragraphs and kind of summarize what you are saying? I get lost when there are too many words.

[Christ's Free Servant]

Additional question.  Do you feel it is necessary to confess to another human as apposed to confession just between you and God.  I have shared some of my thoughts on this but what do you all think?

God Bless,

Kansas Dad 

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Are you asking if it is necessary to confess to a human (like a priest) as a mediator between you and God?

When Christ died for our sins, the veil was torn in two to the Holy of Holies. Christ became our high priest. We no longer need to confess to man to reach God or to receive forgiveness. Christ is the mediator of the New Covenant, and he is the only one we need to confess our sins to... except, if we have wronged someone we should confess to them the wrong we did to them and James says to confess our sins to one another and pray for one another so that we might be healed, so there is healing in confession to others, because it gives us accountability.