Water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism are two different issues

[Don19]

Just now, enoob57 said:

Scripture clearly indicates there is only one and you are saying there is two... clearly stated by you and I will have to agree to disagree with you in this  

Heb 6:2:

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

[enoob57]

4 minutes ago, Don19 said:

Heb 6:2:

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

On the day of Pentecost 

Acts 2:41

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
KJV
Many are baptized hence the plurality of the 'One Baptism'... but to say there are two one of water and one of Spirit in my studied opinion as is error. 
 

1 Cor 10:16-17

16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

17 For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
KJV
 

1 Cor 12:12-14

12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.

13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

14 For the body is not one member, but many.
KJV
These two area of Scripture clearly indicate the many into one hence baptisms into one baptism.... The doctrine of baptisms...

 

[Justin Adams]

To answer the OP, there is a scriptural difference. If you are NOT a cessationist...

[Marathoner]

15 minutes ago, Don19 said:

Heb 6:2:

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Well done throughout, brother. My experience reflects the truth expressed in the scriptures. I was baptized in water but many years (decades) passed until it pleased the Lord to lift me up and pour His Spirit upon me. It was the culmination of a trial which began on that day when two elders baptized me in water. The scriptures couldn't be clear enough on this matter --- there is more than one baptism.

[NotAllThere]

5 hours ago, enoob57 said:

suggesting two baptisms does not fit within Scripture
 

Eph 4:3-6

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
KJV
 

 

4 hours ago, Don19 said:

The "one baptism" is Holy Spirit baptism.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13.

Both wrong. There are more than one baptisms in the Bible, scripturally.  The problem is that the Greek word "baptiso" and its derivatives have been put into English for ages as "baptism". But it's simply a transliteration, not a translation. Baptiso means "to soak". If there's only one, the when Jesus spoke to Nicodemus of the baptism of fire, he meant water. Obviously not right.

Baptism in water is soaking in water; baptism in the Holy Spirit is the initial soaking in the Holy Spirit. Neither are necessary to salvation. Both are necessary to live the full Christian life. The thief on the cross had neither and needed neither. His life was at its end.

When you understand that the word "baptised" means "soaked", you can see instantly, that a baptism in water and a baptism in the Holy Spirit are two different things for two different purposes. The first is to be buried and resurrected in Christ (i.e. put off the sinful nature. be raised to Eternal Life), the second is to be empowered in the New Life. 

Jesus also talked with Nicodemus about a baptism (soaking) in fire. That could simply be a synonym for the Holy Spirit. It could also be persecution. It could also be the purging that that the fire of the Holy Spirit brings to us. Or all three.

My experience is water, Holy Spirit, purging and persecution. Your theology and experience may differ. I was certainly baptised in Holy Spirit before I'd even heard of water baptism. But as soon as I was, I went for it.

Edited December 21, 2020 by NotAllThere

[Don19]

16 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

Baptism in water is soaking in water; baptism in the Holy Spirit is the initial soaking in the Holy Spirit. Neither are necessary to salvation. Both are necessary to live the full Christian life. The thief on the cross had neither and needed neither. His life was at its end.

 

 

As Paul said, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His (Rom 8:9). Water baptism is not necessary for salvation - but no one who lacks the baptism of the Holy Spirit will be saved, since that baptism places us into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 7:4; Eph 4:4, "one body"). The thief on the cross was before Pentecost. Jesus said the Spirit would only be given after He was gloried (John 7:37-39). Nevertheless, I would say what the thief received pictures Holy Spirit baptism. Jesus told him personally that he would be with Him in paradise. That pictures the sealing or earnest of the Spirit that is given at Holy Spirit baptism (Eph 1:13-14, 2 Cor 1:21-22). The words of Jesus are Spirit and Life (John 6:63). And yes, the thief needed that promise, just as we must be born again, that we be children of promise, that out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Edited December 22, 2020 by Don19

[NotAllThere]

That's one way of reading it. But there are others. From my reading of scripture as a whole, I see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from salvation. it is also in accordance with my experience.

Edited December 22, 2020 by NotAllThere

[Your closest friendnt]

11 hours ago, Don19 said:

 

As Paul said, if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His (Rom 8:9). Water baptism is not necessary for salvation - but no one who lacks the baptism of the Holy Spirit will be saved, since that baptism places us into the body of Christ (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 7:4; Eph 4:4, "one body"). The thief on the cross was before Pentecost. Jesus said the Spirit would only be given after He was gloried (John 7:37-39). Nevertheless, I would say what the thief received pictures Holy Spirit baptism. Jesus told him personally that he would be with Him in paradise. The pictures the sealing or earnest of the Spirit that is given at Holy Spirit baptism (Eph 1:13-14, 2 Cor 1:21-22). The words of Jesus are Spirit and Life (John 6:63). And yes, the thief needed that promise, just as we must be born again, that we be children of promise, that out of our belly shall flow rivers of living water.

When anyone believes is sealed with Spirit of Adaptation from Jesus Christ. 

Our Spirit with the spirit of adaptation cries Abafather.  

Paul explained it this way to distinguish the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is given to those who are born from above, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ, is born from above...

Jesus Christ has set the record strait when he said those who offend me they will be forgiven, but those who offend the Holy Spirit will have nothing to do with it. 

Jesus Christ did not make it a Salvation issue after the Cross, when all of his disciples they believed in him and were counted in him and the Heavenly Father before the day of Penticost. 

Farther Jesus Christ said a lot of things about the Paracletous who was to come from the Heavenly Father in his name...

To anyone who believes in him. 

He said to those who are his own, I will not leave you orphans, the Paracletous will come to be with you and live in you, he will take from me and bring it to you.   

If he said it is for those who are his, it is the same as if we say is for the born from above, anyone who believes in him..

Anyone who believes in him is born from above!

That's what Jesus Christ said to Nicodemus.  

There is only one Nation of God after the Cross...the Nation of those who believe in Jesus Christ who are by DEFAULT born from above when they believe, and remain in the born from above, or  born from God Family if they continue to believe and die believing...

Jesus Christ call the children of God before the Cross "the children of the flesh ", because they did not have the Spirit or were not in the Spirit of Jesus Christ. 

The new family of God those who are born from above. 

Anyone who believes is born from above...

PS

Careful now, as the Devil is not a human and for that reason he is not included in the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the Cross.  

[R. Hartono]

9 minutes ago, Your closest friendnt said:

When anyone believes is sealed with Spirit of Adaptation from Jesus Christ. 

Our Spirit with the spirit of adaptation cries Abafather.  

Paul explained it this way to distinguish the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is given to those who are born from above, anyone who believes in Jesus Christ, is born from above...

Jesus Christ has set the record strait when he said those who offend me they will be forgiven, but those who offend the Holy Spirit will have nothing to do with it. 

Jesus Christ did not make it a Salvation issue after the Cross, when all of his disciples they believed in him and were counted in him and the Heavenly Father before the day of Penticost. 

Farther Jesus Christ said a lot of things about the Paracletous who was to come from the Heavenly Father in his name...

To anyone who believes in him. 

He said to those who are his own, I will not leave you orphans, the Paracletous will come to be with you and live in you, he will take from me and bring it to you.   

If he said it is for those who are his, it is the same as if we say is for the born from above, anyone who believes in him..

Anyone who believes in him is born from above!

That's what Jesus Christ said to Nicodemus.  

There is only one Nation of God after the Cross...the Nation of those who believe in Jesus Christ who are by DEFAULT born from above when they believe, and remain in the born from above, or  born from God Family if they continue to believe and die believing...

Jesus Christ call the children of God before the Cross "the children of the flesh ", because they did not have the Spirit or were not in the Spirit of Jesus Christ. 

The new family of God those who are born from above. 

Anyone who believes is born from above...

PS

Careful now, as the Devil is not a human and for that reason he is not included in the atoning work of Jesus Christ on the Cross.  

 

On 4/20/2020 at 5:39 PM, R. Hartono said:

Holy Spirit is knocking at the door, God wants to pour out Holy Spirit on all people but many people say "Holy Spirit baptism ? No thanks we have Jesus here"

 

[Don19]

5 hours ago, NotAllThere said:

That's one way of reading it. But there are others. From my reading of scripture as a whole, I see the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from salvation.

Gal 3:14 places the promise of the Spirit at salvation. Paul speaks of our salvation interchangeably with the promise of the Spirit in Gal 3:14.

That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Likewise, 1 Thess 1:4-5:

Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Read 1 Cor 12:13 again.

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Our being in the Body of Christ is a result of the baptism by one Spirit into that one Body (of Christ - see also Rom 7:4). The baptism of the Holy Spirit makes us all one in Christ. It is emphatically not a post-conversion experience belonging only to some. Paul's egalitarian argument in 1 Cor 12:1-13 would be overthrown by such a notion.