Are these the twelve last shepherds in Israel ?

[Shilohsfoal]

5 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Sorry, wrong coming. There are no resurrections at the gathering of the elect in Mat. 24. 

But at His pretrib coming, 1 Thes. 4, THERE you will find the dead in Christ resurrected. 
Perhaps you should study 1 thes. 5 and learn Paul's timing for the rapture. 

His elect are dead when he comes. They die for thier witness of Jesus during the tribulation. 

His elect are resurrected and will reign with Christ. This is the first resurrection. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

12 hours ago, R. Hartono said:

 

Imho antichrist is the 8th king in succession at his kingdom, not the king of the north. And he is attached with peaceful attributes but actually these kings carry the whore of Babylon (fake religion of christianity) n sits on many waters (nation).

The king of the North did not sit on many waters n did not carry the whore which imitate Christianity.

We need to identify it n look, Vatican has 1,3 billions followers in many nations n has drunk the blood of saints with inquisition.

Imho In the great tribulation the 1st beast will empower the 2nd beast of Arab religion to take over Christianity n to worship him as God.

I agree: the 8th king. I believe He WILL BE a "king of the North." 

I disagree with your take on the whore of Babylon: John is very clear that it is the city of Jerusalem while the Beast and False prophet are there. 

Sorry, but the big lie religion of the Beast will deceive THE ENTIRE WORLD. No religion of today has even come close. Not all false religions together have come close. (Rev does not talk about Catholicism. 

I agree. I think Islam will be the religion of the Beast. But Islam - along with all other false religions - will morph into the Beast being GOD. The Muslims will think he is their ALLAH. 

[Shilohsfoal]

7 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

I agree: the 8th king. I believe He WILL BE a "king of the North." 

I disagree with your take on the whore of Babylon: John is very clear that it is the city of Jerusalem while the Beast and False prophet are there. 

Sorry, but the big lie religion of the Beast will deceive THE ENTIRE WORLD. No religion of today has even come close. Not all false religions together have come close. (Rev does not talk about Catholicism. 

I agree. I think Islam will be the religion of the Beast. But Islam - along with all other false religions - will morph into the Beast being GOD. The Muslims will think he is their ALLAH. 

There are not many Muslim nations in the north. The US, Rissia, Europe are not predominately Muslim. 

The ten horns which fight against the Lamb are Muslim but the king of the north is not. He is antimuslim. 

When the king of the north destroys about all if the middle east and north Africa and has killed tens of millions of Muslims, maybe then you will realize he's not a Muslim. 

[iamlamad]

12 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

His elect are dead when he comes. They die for thier witness of Jesus during the tribulation. 

His elect are resurrected and will reign with Christ. This is the first resurrection. 

You still seem not to believe He is coming TWICE MORE. I challenge you to study 1 thes. 5. Paul's rapture coming is going to be over 7 years before His coming to Armageddon.

It is very true, there will be billions of dead in Christ when he comes pretrib, but they will be resurrected.

There will be many saints beheaded during the week that will be resurrected at the end of the week - with all the rest of the Old Teseament saints. So when Jesus comes to Armageddon, He will come with ALIVE (resurrected) saints!

The first, or primary resurrection is for the righteous for ALL TIME. It is one just a one time event. Jesus took part in it. 

[iamlamad]

11 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

There are not many Muslim nations in the north. The US, Rissia, Europe are not predominately Muslim. 

The ten horns which fight against the Lamb are Muslim but the king of the north is not. He is antimuslim. 

When the king of the north destroys about all if the middle east and north Africa and has killed tens of millions of Muslims, maybe then you will realize he's not a Muslim. 

Its great you have this all figured out!

[Shilohsfoal]

49 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

You still seem not to believe He is coming TWICE MORE. I challenge you to study 1 thes. 5. Paul's rapture coming is going to be over 7 years before His coming to Armageddon.

It is very true, there will be billions of dead in Christ when he comes pretrib, but they will be resurrected.

There will be many saints beheaded during the week that will be resurrected at the end of the week - with all the rest of the Old Teseament saints. So when Jesus comes to Armageddon, He will come with ALIVE (resurrected) saints!

The first, or primary resurrection is for the righteous for ALL TIME. It is one just a one time event. Jesus took part in it. 

I've studied thes. Paul states we shall not be be gathered together at Christ's coming till after a falling away and the son of perdition is revealed whom christ shad ll destroy at his coming. 

Paul didn't say there shall be 2 or 3 comings. He said coming (singular). 

[Shilohsfoal]

44 minutes ago, iamlamad said:

Its great you have this all figured out!

Well, I've been waiting for him for a couple decades so I've had time to fiqure him out before he was elected. 

[iamlamad]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

I've studied thes. Paul states we shall not be be gathered together at Christ's coming till after a falling away and the son of perdition is revealed whom christ shad ll destroy at his coming. 

Paul didn't say there shall be 2 or 3 comings. He said coming (singular). 

"Falling away" is a bad translation and does not fit the context. "The Departing" is a much better translation. 

Did you ever notice that at the end of verse 3, the man of sin IS revealed? According to verses 6 to 8, he CANNOT get revealed until the power restraining him (holding his revealing back) is "taken out of the way."

Yes, Paul alone was given the revelation of the rapture. He had no revelation of Christ's coming to Armageddon. So Paul wrote of His coming FOR the church, and John wrote of His coming WITH the church. 

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, iamlamad said:

"Falling away" is a bad translation and does not fit the context. "The Departing" is a much better translation. 

Did you ever notice that at the end of verse 3, the man of sin IS revealed? According to verses 6 to 8, he CANNOT get revealed until the power restraining him (holding his revealing back) is "taken out of the way."

Yes, Paul alone was given the revelation of the rapture. He had no revelation of Christ's coming to Armageddon. So Paul wrote of His coming FOR the church, and John wrote of His coming WITH the church. 

Paul didn't seem to include himself in your departure . He included himself with those who will be gathered to christ at his coming after your departure and the man of sin is revealed. 

The departure  from the faith which  Jesus spoke of in the gospel is what paul is speaking of. 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/24-12.htm

It's those who don't endure till the end. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Shilohsfoal

[iamlamad]

On 9/17/2020 at 12:08 PM, Shilohsfoal said:

Paul didn't seem to include himself in your departure . He included himself with those who will be gathered to christ at his coming after your departure and the man of sin is revealed. 

The departure  from the faith which  Jesus spoke of in the gospel is what paul is speaking of. 

https://biblehub.com/kjv/matthew/24-12.htm

It's those who don't endure till the end. 

You could call "the love of many growing cold as a "falling away," but Matthew did not put it on those words. Neither did Jesus say it as a departure from faith. 
If you insist that Paul's meaning is a falling away (from what Paul did not specify) then in context the falling away is the same thing as the restrainer being taken out of the way. I don't think so. 

No one can deny: for the man of sin to be revealed as he is in verse 3b, the one restraining has to be taken out of the way in 3a to allow him to be revealed.  For you then, the falling away must be the restrainer taken out of the way.

Edited September 27, 2020 by iamlamad