Any Apostolics Here?

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, Brother Notlad said:

 

Hi Brother Notlad,

You are speaking of a different `Apostolic` organisation than I was brought up in. We do believe in the Trinity.

Groups use names, but that is all they are, just `names.` And having the same `name` does not mean we believe that same thing.

Marilyn.

[Brother Notlad]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Brother Notlad,

You are speaking of a different `Apostolic` organisation than I was brought up in. We do believe in the Trinity.

Groups use names, but that is all they are, just `names.` And having the same `name` does not mean we believe that same thing.

Marilyn.

I was aware that there were Apostolic fellowships that were Trinitarian. And you're right, many might label themselves as such, but yet don't believe the Apostles' doctrine as outlined in the NT.

[Brother Notlad]

6 hours ago, childoftheking said:

 

Jesus, is a translated name that is factually wrong.   Yeshua is His actual Name.  And when you break the Name of Yeshua down, it means in the Hebrew (Yahweh's Salvation).  So that gives us Yahweh and Yeshua.   And we know that by the Name of Yeshua, or specifically, the Name of Yahweh's Salvation the Holy Spirit was sent to us when Yeshua ascended to Paradise.  So technically, the Name of Yeshua fulfills Matthew 28:19 (Father - Son -Holy Spirit).   And when the Apostles Baptized in the Name of Yeshua in the Book of Acts, they were fulfilling Matthew 28:19.

You're right. I know the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost is Jesus, that all one-in-the-same, salvation is found in no other name, and that baptism isn't done the Bible unless performed in the name of Jesus.

[Brother Notlad]

6 hours ago, childoftheking said:

 

 

I am kind of in the same boat as you.   I had a Grandfather many still today refer to him as prophet/bishop/great man of God/etc... but he and G.T. Haywood started the "Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ."   Later on, after my Grandfather became recognized as biblical scholar and teacher plus evangelist, he was awarded the position of Presbyter for the UPC even while being a founding member of the AOLJC.  So, due to that, I was knee deep in understanding these doctrines from a very young age.

Occasionally, there is an evangelist that comes to fill-in for my Pastor during his absence, and he's a part of a congregation within the Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm fairly certain he's ordained under the banner as well, although I couldn't pass that as fact. I know little of their trivial beliefs, but I know that their church (this one, any way) is not as conservative as my home church.

[BeauJangles]

41 minutes ago, Brother Notlad said:

baptism isn't done the Bible unless performed in the name of Jesus.

Matthew 28:19  Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. KJV

Acts 2:38  And Peter said unto them, Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. KJV 

My first water immersion baptism was done in the manner of Matthew 28:19. My second baptism, which was done on a matter of re-affirmation of faith, was in accordance to Acts 2:38. I think they both counted IMHO. God bless!

Shalom, 

David/BeauJangles

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by BeauJangles

[JohnD]

The New Testament does not teach a retooled / revamped singularity that modalism teaches:

that is... Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, Jesus is the Holy Ghost.

That is unbiblical / not New Testament.

Jesus said "My Father and I are one." He did not say "I am my Father."

Jesus and his Father are one God. As is the Holy Spirit.

You and your parents are one family. Same logic, different nature (speaking of the divine nature and your family's nature).

The Father cannot know what the Son does not know if the Father and the Son are one and the same (person).

Mark 13:32 (AV)
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The Father cannot have a will different than the Son if the Father and the Son are one and the same (person).

Matthew 26:39 (AV)
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

The Spirit of God would not have to search the mind of the Father if the Father and the Spirit are one and the same (person).

1 Corinthians 2:10 (AV)
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The Father cannot send the Son if the Father and the Son are one and the same (person).

1 John 4:14 (AV)
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

He would COME as the Son.

The Father cannot send the Spirit if the Father and the Spirit are one and the same (person).

John 14:26 (AV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

He would COME as the Spirit.

The Son cannot send the Spirit if the Son and the Spirit are one and the same (person).

John 15:26 (AV)
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

He would COME as the Spirit.

One does not SEND one's self.

One COMES or GOES.

Modalism (often disguised by the terms "Oneness" or "Unity") is patently false.

John 1:1 - 2 clearly states that God the Word was WITH God in the beginning.

This is further expounded in 1 John 1:1-2 (the Word was WITH The Father) and Genesis 1:1-2 (and the Spirit of God).

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit cannot be WITH each other if they are all one and the same (person).

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by JohnD

[childoftheking]

On 5/6/2019 at 10:51 PM, JohnD said:

The New Testament does not teach a retooled / revamped singularity that modalism teaches:

that is... Jesus is the Father, Jesus is the Son, Jesus is the Holy Ghost.

That is unbiblical / not New Testament.

Jesus said "My Father and I are one." He did not say "I am my Father."

Jesus and his Father are one God. As is the Holy Spirit.

You and your parents are one family. Same logic, different nature (speaking of the divine nature and your family's nature).

The Father cannot know what the Son does not know if the Father and the Son are one and the same (person).

Mark 13:32 (AV)
32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

The Father cannot have a will different than the Son if the Father and the Son are one and the same (person).

Matthew 26:39 (AV)
39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

The Spirit of God would not have to search the mind of the Father if the Father and the Spirit are one and the same (person).

1 Corinthians 2:10 (AV)
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

The Father cannot send the Son if the Father and the Son are one and the same (person).

1 John 4:14 (AV)
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

He would COME as the Son.

The Father cannot send the Spirit if the Father and the Spirit are one and the same (person).

John 14:26 (AV)
26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

He would COME as the Spirit.

The Son cannot send the Spirit if the Son and the Spirit are one and the same (person).

John 15:26 (AV)
26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

He would COME as the Spirit.

One does not SEND one's self.

One COMES or GOES.

Modalism (often disguised by the terms "Oneness" or "Unity") is patently false.

John 1:1 - 2 clearly states that God the Word was WITH God in the beginning.

This is further expounded in 1 John 1:1-2 (the Word was WITH The Father) and Genesis 1:1-2 (and the Spirit of God).

God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit cannot be WITH each other if they are all one and the same (person).

 

You are aware that Abraham, whom is considered the Father of your Faith, who personally knew Yeshua as Melchizedek (Yeshua tells us in John 8 He knew Abraham and Abraham knew Him and that Yeshua is "I AM") was 100% Modalistic?

 

You are aware the Hebrews believe that ELOHIM means ONE/SINGULAR, opposed to what the English speaking people believe, plural?

Elohim, in Biblical Hebrew and in Modern Hebrew, is referred to the [[((singular))]] despite the -im ending that denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew.

 

Best example of Yeshua being "I AM" and ELOHIM at same time and place:

Exodus 3:

6 ווַיֹּ֗אמֶר אָֽנֹכִי֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י אָבִ֔יךָ אֱלֹהֵ֧י אַבְרָהָ֛ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֖ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֑ב וַיַּסְתֵּ֤ר משֶׁה֙ פָּנָ֔יו כִּ֣י יָרֵ֔א מֵֽהַבִּ֖יט אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִֽים:

6 And He said, "I am the ELOHIM of your father, the ELOHIM of Abraham, the ELOHIM of Isaac, and the ELOHIM of Jacob." And Moses hid his face because he was afraid to look toward ELOHIM. 

 

We also know that Yahweh is "I AM and ELOHIM."

So, if Yeshua proves in Exodus/John 8 that He is both I AM and ELOHIM, and we know that Yahweh is both I AM and ELOHIM, that would make Yeshua to also be Yahweh.

After all, Yeshua literally means "Yahweh's Salvation," so Yeshua took a NAME that specifically means YAHWEH!!

 

So, this naturally means the Hebrew people since Abraham are also 100% Modalistic!!

 

 

And we also know from Genesis 6:

 

3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man

^ That God reveals His Spirit (the Holy Spirit) strives with man + reveals His Own Spirit/Personal Spirit (like You and Myself have a personal spirit)(so does God have a personal Spirit, since we our made in His LIKENESS)(God's Spirit is known to us as the Holy Spirit)

Are you not filled with the Holy Spirit?

If so, you are filled with the Personal Spirit of God, like Genesis 6:3 reveals.

 

 

So, the Hebrew people, knowing that Elohim is ONE, that Elohim's name is both I AM and Yahweh, and that Elohim's Spirit (Holy Spirit) strives with them until they die (like the Holy Spirit does with You and Myself and all Believers) were still  100% Modalistic!!

 

 

But where it suddenly gets blurry, is this term called SON!!

But actually, it's not blurry at all...

Did Yeshua, in the form of a Son to the Father, teach us how to be Sons and Daughters to the Father.

Did He teach us what Commandments to see in a new view?

Did He teach us how to properly pray?

Did He teach us how to properly live like Sons and Daughters of the Father?

 

So, Elohim wraps Himself in flesh and teaches us how to be Sons and Daughters to the Father!!

Yeshua is just a flesh body, but inside Yeshua, we know from John that the Father (Elohim/I AM/Yahweh) and the Personal Spirit of Elohim (Holy Spirit) dwelled in Him.

In Matthew, Yeshua tells us it's by the Holy Spirit (Personal Spirit of Elohim) He was able to cast out demons when the Pharisees claimed He did it by (the Adversary/Satan).

Matthew 12:

28 But if I cast out devils by the(([[Spirit of God]])), then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

^NOTICE: Yeshua USES SAME TERM He did in Genesis 6:3 "My Spirit = Spirit of God = Holy Spirit, so the Holy Spirit is the Personal Spirit of God

 

John:

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, [[((and yet hast thou not known me))]], Philip?

^Philip asks, show us the Father, Yeshua answers, I AM the Father

 

I made the comment that the SON was a body (like You and myself are flesh bodies and now SONS of GOD): 

John 14:

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? [[((the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works]])).

^ Yeshua proves the FATHER dwells inside this flesh body (like our flesh body) as the SON (we are SONS of God)

 

So we now know, inside the flesh body of Yeshua dwells the FATHER, and the FATHER'S SPIRIT (the Holy Spirit).

 

So even Yeshua is proving the need to be 100% Modalistic!!

 

 

We also know from the Greek and Latin Vulgate, that the KJV Bible has added to the Word of God:

KJV BIBLE:

1 John 5:

6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

 

the GREEK:

1 John 5:

6 This is He Who is coming through water and blood and spirit - Jesus Christ - not in the water only, but in the water and in the blood. And the spirit it is which is testifying, for the spirit is the truth, 

7 seeing that three there are that are testifying, 

8 the spirit, and the water, and the blood, and the three are for the one thing." 

 

First Translation from GREEK to LATIN VULGATE (5th Century):

1 John 5:

6 hic est qui venit per aquam et sanguinem Iesus Christus non in aqua solum sed in aqua et sanguine et Spiritus est qui testificatur quoniam Christus est veritas

This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth. 
 

7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant

And there are Three who give testimony   

 

8 Spiritus et aqua et sanguis et tres unum sunt

the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one. 

 

The GREEK/LATIN VULGATE "do not mention" Father-Son-Holy Spirit like the KJV Bible does.

The GREEK/LATIN VULGATE were written 1600/1100 years BEFORE the KJV BIBLE.

So, why does the KJV BIBLE add Father-Son-Holy Spirit, WHEN THAT IS NOT WHAT JOHN WROTE?

 

Matthew 28:19

Church Historians explain

“With one word and voice He said to His disciples: “Go, Baptize and make disciples of all nations in My Name, teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you,” — (Proof of the Gospel by Eusebius, Book III, ch 6, 132 (a), p. 152)

 

“Who said to them; “Go, Baptize and make disciples of all the nations in my Name.” — (Eusebius, Proof of the Gospel, Book III, Chapter 7, 138 (c), p. 159)

 

The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263:

"The baptismal formula was changed from the name of Jesus Christ to the words Father, Son, and Holy Spirit by the Catholic Church in the fourth century."

 

look at last paragraph of picture I uploaded, it also explains the Changing of Yeshua (God's WORDS in Matthew 28:19)

Clearly, Yeshua was still teaching us to be 100% Modalistic!!

Edited May 22, 2019 by childoftheking

[childoftheking]

What I find most interesting, is Yeshua did for Abraham like He did for all of us!!

 

Yeshua came to Abraham as Melchizedek and taught Abraham the ways of Elohim

Yeshua came to us, and taught us how to be SONS and DAUGHTERS to the Father

 

So, Yeshua has a habit of being several types of people in order to teach HIS PEOPLE!!

But Yeshua is still ONLY ONE, not several like we see Him as the Angel of God, the Captain of God's military to Joshua, 4th man with Shadrach, Meshack, Abednego...and on and on

[childoftheking]

Did you know the term trinity was coined literally 300 years after Yeshua ascended?

 

But what is interesting, is how the term "trinity" originated.   

 

We know in Book of Samuel, king Saul went to see a WITCH, this is 2,500 years BEFORE Yeshua came to us as the Sacrificial Lamb (SON).

The term trinity was coined with the TRIUNE gods of Greece, later of Rome, and then Rome as the Catholic Church coined this PAGAN TERM for Christians...

 

I find it odd how some make a big deal about Easter and Christmas being "Pagan Holidays," but NEVER ONCE apply that to this idea of TRINITY-TRIUNE-THREE REPRESENTING the ONE GOD!!

 

If people just researched, the TRUTHS are actually and literally out there!!

 

 

So, just like Abraham, the Hebrew People, and what Yeshua taught to us as the (SON), I am 100% Modalistic!!

Edited May 22, 2019 by childoftheking