Torah Observant

June 8, 2005

Wow, Shimshon. Your responce is very humbling. Thank you.

There is a possibility that I look upon the covenant differently than you do. For myself, I see only one covenant with many parts, each part a layer upon the previous part and no part disqualifying, abolishing, or making obsolete any previous part. HaShem remains the covenant-maker and we remain the vassels to whom the covenant was made. His promises as land-owner are "I will do this if your will do that, but if you refuse to do that, I will do this other thing. I am the L-rd." My application includes:

1. My obligation to know what the Landlord demands,

2. Compliance with what he says, with love for Adoni.

June 8, 2005

How about I am Torah obedient? Does that count?

Shimshon · June 8, 2005

For myself, I see only one covenant with many parts, each part a layer upon the previous part and no part disqualifying, abolishing, or making obsolete any previous part.

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Shalom Ahdiba

I can relate to the 'one' covenant description when viewing the 'whole' of the promise. "I will dwell and reign in Tziyon myself'. "I will be king over them, they will be my people and I will be their God'. As a whole, I see one covenant, one promise. But we don't see things from eternity, from the whole. We can only be revealed it by Abba. And even then we have to take much of it on faith. We can only see things in time, in finality. So to us God's One promise has many facets to it. God sees the end from the begining but we can only see one point in time and the rest is taken by faith and revelation from God. So to us we have starts and stops, and transformations. But to God the whole tree formed right before his very eyes so to speak. But to us it takes millenium to see it grow.

Ahdiba, you said you see only one covenant, so I would present to you the question of; how do you then deal with the book of Hebrews?

7:12. "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also."

This chapter goes into details about this 'transformation' that was fortold from the beginning. According to Shaul, there was a transformation. And he used Avraham/Malkitzedek and Hagar, Yishmael/Sara, Yaakov as opposing examples. Not to mention Romans 8 as well. How do you deal with these things within the view of One covenant?

Shimshon · June 8, 2005

How about I am Torah obedient? Does that count?

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Shalom Zayit

I don't believe the intend here was to make the statement, but to define it. Anyone can claim a title, but one can not hide the Truth, nor the falsehoods that flow from their hearts, and thus from their mouths. Out of the heart the mouth speaks. Yeshua asked, Who do they say I am? I ask, What do they say he said? What is Truth? Because the Truth will set you free!

June 8, 2005

sorry, I guess I misunderstood the op.

Ahavah · June 9, 2005

How about I am Torah obedient? Does that count?

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I'll help you out Zayit...let me ask you this. HOW are you Torah Observant then? What do you do that makes you think your being Torah Observant? Does that help? P.S. I'm not picking on you..I'm just having fun with ya.

sheya joie · June 9, 2005

Jesus often rebuked those whose observancies were outward show without inward reality. So I think that's the important starting point - to be REAL on the inside. From that, from a genuine heart of love for the LORD and love for your neighbor (that is, the two great commandments), the actions of obedience will flow, as we marinate in HIS Word and it grows within us. As we learn the things that please HIM.

Just some of my thoughts.

June 9, 2005

How about I am Torah obedient? Does that count?

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I'll help you out Zayit...let me ask you this. HOW are you Torah Observant then? What do you do that makes you think your being Torah Observant? Does that help? P.S. I'm not picking on you..I'm just having fun with ya.

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I am obedient to the word, Yeshua, he has written on my heart, and he speaks to me the things he wants me to do, and I confirm it in his word.

To me it's all about obedience, doing what he wants you to do, not what you want to do or what the world tells you to do, but that is where your faith is tried and where you move forward because you seek to please him and no one else.

Funny thing, there is only one little letter 'l' that makes a difference here

WORD

WORLD

June 9, 2005

I hope I am doing this right.

For myself, I see only one covenant with many parts, each part a layer upon the previous part and no part disqualifying, abolishing, or making obsolete any previous part.

Shimshon · June 9, 2005

But what I see happening is the term 'Torah' being misconstrude as the commands given to Yisrael in the Land. Most commonly known as the Torah of Moshe, or the 'old' covenant as described in the writtings of Hebrews.

Again, you have to deal with the verse;

7:12. "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also."

To say that we are still under the 'old' covenant given to Yisrael who had a Land and a Temple back then is the issue. This verse among many claim this 'administration' was transformed. As Deut 18:15-22 among others said it would.

Yes, his words are eternal and will last as long as creation exists. His WORD is Love, not WORK. Torah means instruction, he instructed MANY MANY things to many people throughout time. Are we all to build an ark? Go to Yisrael? Circumcise our children? Offer blood of bulls and goats, grain and incense? Waive a sheaf of grain? Blow the shofar on Yom Teruah? Were Tzitiyot?

Did Avraham were them? Did the Torah given Moshe nullify the promise given Avraham? Does the promise given Moshe supersced the Torah given by Yeshua in person? As Deut 18 prophecied? As ALL the prophets did?

I give you a new command, yet it is an old one. LOVE eachother as I have loved you. In this you fulfill ALL I have ever instructed you or our fathers to do. Without love we are nothing. Because God is love. He has revealed his love to us throughout time and in many ways. But when we grow up, do we still wear a diaper when we know how to hold ourselves and go to the proper place? Because at one time we were told "Ye shall were the diaper at all times" But, prophets said that one day we would grow up and not need the 'holy diaper' because we will have matured into grown children of God. The custodian is no longer needed. THe binds have been released, Yitzak is free, Yisrael is no longer bound under sin. Under the Torah of Moshe....We are free of BOTH in Yeshua. Free as a bird is free to fly from the nest now that he has wings, but is the nest now considered treif? or no longer seen as 'home'? No it was your birthing place and you are very sentimental about it. But you don't live in the nest anymore. You are free to fly as Yeshua made you.

Just some things to think about my friend.