Salvation isn't what it used to be.

[childoftheking]

43 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

The Bible is not Hogwash.....Adding Law to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace “ I S” . Hogwash is putting it mildly....I invite anyone to see what “ filthy rags” really means.Paul never minced words to describe the insult to the Blood Of Christ that “ works of the flesh” truly are.Go with Grace.....in the end it reveals whether or not you have what God is looking for —- faith.

 

Yeshua taught us the Lord's Prayer:

 

There was one staple concerning that prayer we must follow 100% to guarantee our own sins to be forgiven:

(1) We must first forgive those who have sinned against us!!

 

Now, we ain't God, nor can we say by our work on the CROSS (ALL sin - Past/Present/Future) was covered by our shed Blood.

Since we cannot make that claim, we therefore cannot make the claim that from this moment, "anyone who sins against me is forgiven."   We just do not have that right to do as such.   The right that we do have is IF/WHEN someone does sin against us, we can THEN forgive them.

 

But what IF WE DO NOT forgive them?

Yeshua's Prayer claims the Father WILL NOT forgive us.

And since forgiving others is a constant ongoing process, and it predicates that WHEN WE DO FORGIVE, Our Father then forgives us.

 

By your claim, Paul's message of Grace would supercede What Yeshua (God) taught: that to be forgiven, we must first forgive!!

 

I don't see how it is therefore possible, that Paul trumps Yeshua concerning, "must forgive to be forgiven!!"

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

According to Ephesians4:3-2, on this side of the Cross, in this glorious Age of Grace, the impetus for forgiveness is the fact that If Jesus could forgive You for your wretchedness, why can’t you forgive others? “Be kind and tender hearted, forgiving others , as God HAS forgiven you” Paul never trumps Christ-If Paul said it, Jesus said it.Everything Paul wrote was inspired by Jesus in person , or by the Holy Spirit as Paul put pen to paper .

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Blood Bought 1953

[Blood Bought 1953]

 

It’s easy to stop sinning—- stop breathing.

[childoftheking]

49 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

According to Ephesians4:3-2, on this side of the Cross, in this glorious Age of Grace, the impetus for forgiveness is the fact that If Jesus could forgive You for your wretchedness, why can’t you forgive others? “Be kind and tender hearted, forgiving others , as God HAS forgiven you” Paul never trumps Christ-If Paul said it, Jesus said it.Everything Paul wrote was inspired by Jesus in person , or by the Holy Spirit as Paul put pen to paper .

 

 

Of course I can forgive others, it's rather easy when you put into context what God did for myself by His forgiveness He granted to me.   I was creating a scenario in my last post, which you ignored to give your personal view of things.   Which I am not whole heartedly disagreeing by any means at all.   I understand that even though Yeshua told the Jew's He represented the MERCY of God to them, we also know, He represented the GRACE of God to the Gentiles.

 

But back to my scenario:

If one would withhold forgiveness to another, it seems they do not deserve the Grace which Paul explains in great detail.

And if they do, then man has created the "License to Sin," which is incorrect on all views and not remotely close to what 
Paul was speaking about.

[childoftheking]

3 minutes ago, Betha said:

I very much agree with that, but please don't think that Christ is LAWLESS nor as Jesus when in the flesh....He kept His Fathers Commandments, should not we ? 

 

I cannot imagine God pouring out His Amazing Grace upon someone who does not abide by the first Commandment : "Thou shalt have no other gods before ME!!"

[JustPassingThru]

2 hours ago, Betha said:

...but I'll make it more plain, I mean the 10 which also include the 7th day Sabbath.

There it is in a nutshell, ...ungodly men and women have infiltrated the church, they haven't taught the church that the observance of the 7h day was just a shadow of what was to come in the future:

Let no man (or woman) therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.  Col 2:16, 17

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things..., Heb 10:1

Jesus taught us we are to know confirmation by two or more witnesses, ...there we have our two witnesses by and from the Holy Spirit! 

Actually the Holy Spirit writing through His scribe explains to us, who are born again, in the fourth chapter of Hebrews, that the observance of the rest on 7th day was a shadow of the future rest the born again children of God will have in resting from their works, ...that they will find, in their Savior Jesus Christ, that Jesus is OUR Sabbath, ........it's that simple! 

2 hours ago, Betha said:

Christians are not taught this difference and vital Truth , having been infiltrated by UNgodly men bringing error and lies into it to destroy them

The error and or lie that we have to observe the 7th day, ...or else we are deceived, not saved and not in the ONLY true church on the planet is, ...what it is, ...heresy!

For all of you that might be confused about this and or the lurkers watching, ...we don't become more dumb when we are born again, we don't throw away our God given ability to reason and think logically, NO..., the Word tells us to prove all things and to hold fast, have a very firm gripe, as if our lives depended on it, ...on things that are good!

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.  1 Thes 5:21

The word prove means:  to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals, to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy.

So let's prove, examine, scrutinise, the observance of the 7th day, is it for the Church today and after we examine it carefully can we approve or disapprove of what we are hearing?

History tells us the seventh day adventist church came into existence, began on May 21, 1863, ...that's only 156 years ago, so, let's examine if their doctrine is logical and/or Biblical, ...that means for about 1,831 years the Church didn't believe it was to assemble on the 7th day, so, that is saying the Holy Spirit had failed to teach the Church for all of those years, ...logically reasoning the Holy Spirit, ...had forgotten, had made an error or didn't think it was that important for the Church, ...not only is that blasphemy, ...but let's carry it even further, ...that means if observance of the 7th day is obligatory for salvation, ...for 1,831 years no one was saved......, that means John the Apostle didn't teach his disciple Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna to observe the sabbath, Eusebius, known as the father of Church history whose exact recordings of the early church that we have with is today, wrote in vain, ...that means Martin Luther, the Father of our Protestant Revolution died unsaved, John Knox, Calvin, Tyndale, ...Spurgeon, Wesley, Whitfield, Billy Sunday, ...yes even Billy Graham, ...just to name a few, not mentioning ALL of the martyrs that didn't renounce or deny the Name of Jesus Christ, ...their very faith, ...all died without salvation! 

Is that the God you know and follow, the One who obviously made a mistake in not telling His Church, ...after He personally died for it, ...for our Salvation, ...to not tell us of this very important obligation of/to our being saved?

Personally, that's not the God I know and have followed for 33 years, ...that's not His Love, care, teachings, correction, discipline I have experienced for all of those years, ...that's not the God of my Bible, ...frankly, ...that's another god and another Gospel!

Lord bless

   

[JustPassingThru]

I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this, 

If God requires us to ask Him for forgiveness before He will forgive us, is Jesus teaching us we have to forgive the other person before they come to us and ask for us to forgive them, ...is He asking us to do something He Himself doesn't do? 

[Blood Bought 1953]

46 minutes ago, childoftheking said:

 

Of course I can forgive others, it's rather easy when you put into context what God did for myself by His forgiveness He granted to me.   I was creating a scenario in my last post, which you ignored to give your personal view of things.   Which I am not whole heartedly disagreeing by any means at all.   I understand that even though Yeshua told the Jew's He represented the MERCY of God to them, we also know, He represented the GRACE of God to the Gentiles.

 

But back to my scenario:

If one would withhold forgiveness to another, it seems they do not deserve the Grace which Paul explains in great detail.

And if they do, then man has created the "License to Sin," which is incorrect on all views and not remotely close to what 
Paul was speaking about.

 

If we “ deserve” Grace, as you say, I am sorry but that ain’t Grace......Grace is “ undeserved , unmerited favor and it is not fair as the human mind perceives these things.....

Since my heart circumcision,my desire for sinning rapidly falls by the wayside.....I have the same desire for a sin license as I do for a license to take a razor and slice off my lips .No thanks.....I would have paid big bucks for that sin license before I became born again.....As a New Creation in Christ—-  Give it to somebody who can use it, somebody under the control of the god of this world.....that guy ain’t me anymore .The license that I DO have is a license to rest.I rest in the finished work of the Cross.If one is not resting — they are working.That is unbelief.Those “ trying to be saved” are lost unless they learn how to “ trust to be saved”

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, Betha said:

AH, I can see something now....you think I am hard and unforgiving because i expect more from people than what Jesus or Paul offered ? or because i bring 'commandment-keeping into Grace...when you believe all law to be abolished, as do most trad christians.

Am i right ? there is a lot to be said on this if we can do it in love and patience...but it is nevertheless painful to give up our old beliefs and people will cry out during that process Heb 4v12 as God cuts out the deadly cancer in us. I myself have experienced it and my compassion is with you. Hope we can continue !

 

I don’t think you are hard or unforgiving.I really don’t care....no insult intended.That is between you and God. I don’t think the Law has been abolished.It is still there doing its duty , which is to show you that you can’t keep it and unless you find an unblemished ,innocent one to Shed it’s blood for you, and pay the ugly price that you rightly have coming to you......you ain’t gotta chance to escape Hell.

 Commandment Keeping is great .The more of them you obey, the more God will bless you.Be a fool and disobey and you will pay the price for it.Always.

One should choose wisdom and follow God’s great instruction manual for the human race that He created and knows perfectly.The Law is great!   It just was never designed to save anybody— faith in the Shed Blood Of Jesus ALONE takes care of that. God bless.

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, JustPassingThru said:

There it is in a nutshell, ...ungodly men and women have infiltrated the church, they haven't taught the church that the observance of the 7h day was just a shadow of what was to come in the future:

Let no man (or woman) therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.  Col 2:16, 17

For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things..., Heb 10:1

Jesus taught us we are to know confirmation by two or more witnesses, ...there we have our two witnesses by and from the Holy Spirit! 

Actually the Holy Spirit writing through His scribe explains to us, who are born again, in the fourth chapter of Hebrews, that the observance of the rest on 7th day was a shadow of the future rest the born again children of God will have in resting from their works, ...that they will find, in their Savior Jesus Christ, that Jesus is OUR Sabbath, ........it's that simple! 

The error and or lie that we have to observe the 7th day, ...or else we are deceived, not saved and not in the ONLY true church on the planet is, ...what it is, ...heresy!

For all of you that might be confused about this and or the lurkers watching, ...we don't become more dumb when we are born again, we don't throw away our God given ability to reason and think logically, NO..., the Word tells us to prove all things and to hold fast, have a very firm gripe, as if our lives depended on it, ...on things that are good!

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.  1 Thes 5:21

The word prove means:  to test, examine, prove, scrutinise (to see whether a thing is genuine or not), as metals, to recognise as genuine after examination, to approve, deem worthy.

So let's prove, examine, scrutinise, the observance of the 7th day, is it for the Church today and after we examine it carefully can we approve or disapprove of what we are hearing?

History tells us the seventh day adventist church came into existence, began on May 21, 1863, ...that's only 156 years ago, so, let's examine if their doctrine is logical and/or Biblical, ...that means for about 1,831 years the Church didn't believe it was to assemble on the 7th day, so, that is saying the Holy Spirit had failed to teach the Church for all of those years, ...logically reasoning the Holy Spirit, ...had forgotten, had made an error or didn't think it was that important for the Church, ...not only is that blasphemy, ...but let's carry it even further, ...that means if observance of the 7th day is obligatory for salvation, ...for 1,831 years no one was saved......, that means John the Apostle didn't teach his disciple Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna to observe the sabbath, Eusebius, known as the father of Church history whose exact recordings of the early church that we have with is today, wrote in vain, ...that means Martin Luther, the Father of our Protestant Revolution died unsaved, John Knox, Calvin, Tyndale, ...Spurgeon, Wesley, Whitfield, Billy Sunday, ...yes even Billy Graham, ...just to name a few, not mentioning ALL of the martyrs that didn't renounce or deny the Name of Jesus Christ, ...their very faith, ...all died without salvation! 

Is that the God you know and follow, the One who obviously made a mistake in not telling His Church, ...after He personally died for it, ...for our Salvation, ...to not tell us of this very important obligation of/to our being saved?

Personally, that's not the God I know and have followed for 33 years, ...that's not His Love, care, teachings, correction, discipline I have experienced for all of those years, ...that's not the God of my Bible, ...frankly, ...that's another god and another Gospel!

Lord bless

   

 

In a word........brilliant.