trinity

[NonProfitProphet]

On 6/18/2019 at 2:16 AM, Worship Warriors said:

How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition :

 One being

 

within the One being are 3 persons

 

 

 

One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing.

 

 

 

Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful

 

 

 

Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God?

 

 

 

God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them

 

 

 

My definition of the trinity

 

 

 

One personal God

 

 

 

 

 

One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

 

I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being.

 

3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons.

 

 

 

Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

 

 

 

This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love.

 

 

 

 

I’ve found it more effective, if the topic has presented itself, to present the image of a married couple:

According to the Bible they are “one,” yet they are two people. They are a singular couple- sounds like an oxymoron, but the truth is they are plural but functioning as one.

Deuteronomy 6:4 is fascinating- It states that יְהוָ֥ה is Elohim (plural: gods), and then immediately confirms יְהוָ֥ה is ONE. (Singular, but in the sense of being united, still alluding to the plurality within a single deity.

Elohim spoke to Himself as plural, and made man in “our” image- Singular; a singular image to depict a “we.” 

[appy]

I've posted the following in another thread on the forums....

Yes, you are right that we believe in the Trinity, but it is not what you think. I’d like you to read these verses with me from the Bible. This is one of the books of the Torah. There is no question that the Bible teaches that there is one God.

Deuteronomy 6:4 “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.”

Exodus 20 : 3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

Affirmed in the New Testament

Mark 12 : 28 – 31 One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, “Of all the commandments, which is the most important?”  “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.  Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”

Romans 3:29-30 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

We can see from the scriptures above that the Bible affirms that there is only one God. The bible teaches that Jesus, called ‘the Word’, was eternal, existing from the beginning of time. that Jesus was with God, indicating that in some way, Jesus the Son and God the Father are different persons. At the same time, it teaches that Jesus actually was God and is God

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.

Jesus was not always a human being, but rather became a human being So, he did not come into existence at his birth. Instead, he was sent to earth by God the Father by means of human birth to a human mother but not a human father.

John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

He was equal in glory (in nature) to God the Father, even as a human being . No other prophet, is described this way, distinct from God the Father as a separate person, but the same as God the Father in nature at the same time. During his earthly ministry sent from God, Jesus claimed that he had been working throughout history and throughout his ministry the same way that God the Father had been working; there was no difference in what they were doing. The Jewish rabbi's fully understood this teaching as an unmistakable claim of Jesus being equal with God in nature, because they wanted to stone him.

John 5:17 In his defense Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working."

John 10:25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father's name testify about me,

John 10:30 I and the Father are one.”

Along with the claims of Jesus to be equal to God, He also taught that the Holy Spirit had a similar identity. He used a single name to refer God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit

Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

The above passage describes three persons, distinct in their own identity but equally the same in nature. Together, they share a name and authority as God. We agree that God is invisible and is up in heaven, we are down here on earth. He is infinite and we are finite. God is more complex than our human minds can comprehend.

Job 36:26 How great is God—beyond our understanding! The number of his years is past finding out.

Isaiah 55:8-9 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts,  neither are your ways my ways,” declares the Lord. “As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

 

[BeauJangles]

On 6/17/2019 at 11:16 PM, Worship Warriors said:

How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition :

One being

within the One being are 3 persons

One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing.

Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful

Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God?

God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them

My definition of the trinity

One personal God

One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being.

3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons.

Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love.

First of all, thanks for the allowance to tighten up this post. It had a lot of wasted space or was it like a fill in thing for writing an essay? It kind of reminded me of high school exam paper. Second of all, I would only attempt to explain the Trinity to an open hearted Muslim. Those who have staunch doctrinal beliefs under their keffiyeh* are difficult to convince otherwise. One must use wisdom with this sort of thing or it backfires every time. 

P.S. Please don't take the critique to seriously. I'm gonna grab what little humor there is right now. 

MATTHEW 7:6 KJV "Give not that which ... - King James Version

www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-7-6/

 Give not that which is holy to the dogs, nor cast your pearls before the swine, lest they trample them with their feet, and turning round rend you. - 

 

The keffiyeh*or kufiya (Arabic: كُوفِيَّة‎ kūfiyyah, meaning "from the city of Kufa" (الْكُوفَة); plural كُوفِيَّات kūfiyyāt), also known as a ghutrah (غُترَة), shemagh (شُمَاغ šumāġ), ḥaṭṭah (حَطَّة), mashadah (مَشَدَة), chafiye, dastmal yazdi (Persian: دستمال یزدی‎, Kurdish: دەستمال یەزدی‎ destmal yezdî) or cemedanî (Kurdish: جەمەدانی‎), is a traditional Arabian headdress, or what is sometimes called a habit, that originated in the Arabian Peninsula, and is now worn throughout the Middle-East region.

 

[Wesley L]

On 6/18/2019 at 8:16 AM, Worship Warriors said:

How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition :

 One being

within the One being are 3 persons

One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing.

Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful

Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God?

God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them

My definition of the trinity

One personal God

One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being.

3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons.

Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love.

 

Personally, I would ask him a few questions.
Is God almighty?
Is God able to be in different places at the same time?
Is God able to be in different forms in different places at the same time?

Do I understand it? No. It is beyond my understanding.
Do I believe it? Yes, because He revealed it to us through His words and through Jesus Christ.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Wesley L
grammar

[DearOldDad]

On 6/18/2019 at 2:16 AM, Worship Warriors said:

How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition :

 One being

within the One being are 3 persons

 

One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing.

Being- the essence that makes something what it is .for example, there are celestial beings, there are human beings, and there is one divine being. The being of God is what makes God God. He is omnipotent omnipresent all powerful

 

Person-the essence that makes someone who he is. The personality of someone. Within my one being is one person. Within the one being of God are three persons. The three persons are co-equal and co eternal. What does this tell me about God?

God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them

 

My definition of the trinity

One personal God

One personal God. But He can work and function in three different ways at the same time: the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit.

 

I in 3: ONE BEING but the three persons are all sharing the same one being.

3 in 1: In the ONE BEING, there are three persons.

Because the three persons of the Godhead are all sharing the same being, I can say God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

 

This is what makes Christianity so unique compared to other religions. The triune God is a personal God. He is relational. He wants to be known. That’s the nature of love. Christianity is an encounter with a personal God who has so transformed your heart that now you want to live radically for Him out of love.

 

How do you explain the triune God to a Muslim? they think that Christian are worshiping 3 gods. here is definition :

 One being - within the One being are 3 persons[/quote]

In Exo 3:13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them?

14 God introduced himself to Moses using singular pronoun, singular verb, singular definite article and singular verb participle. "egw eimi 'o wn" = "I AM THE BEING."

"egw" = first-person-singular pronoun = "I"
"eimi" = first-person-singular present active verb = "am"
"'o" = singular definite article = "the"
"wn" = Singular participle = "Being"[/b]

"Egw" leaves no room for 'We." "Egw" allows no room for "US." "Egw" is a reference to a first-person-singular "I."
"Eimi" leaves no room for "Are," but is a reference to "AM."
"Ho" leaves no room for "some" but is a reference to "The" one and only. It is a singular definite article.
"Wn" leaves no room for beings, it is a reference to "The Being." It is singular as to number of persons considered.

 

One being in 3 persons. . Being and persons is not the same thing.

 

Neither is "singular" & "plural" as applied to grammatical articulation of words.

Singular does not include 2 and 3; singular will always reference "1."

Plural does not exclude more than 1; Plural will always include more than 1."

 

  God is a being in communion within Himself. He is a relational God. You can’t say that God is love unless there is a lover, a beloved and the Spirit of love between them

 

"God is Love"

If in fact "God is love," and God is perfect and flawless, there would only be "perfect" love in the entirety of God. And God could NOT ever have created imperfection, because He would have no need to love, protect, fight for, or teach imperfect beings. 

But,

since God created imperfect beings, gave them free will, and taught them about the consequence of disobedience, which in their ignorance and lack of experience, had the possibility of stirring innocent consciences to examine one moment of disobedience, to gain experience and knowledge, to "become as GODS, knowing good and evil.

Because God is live, and because there are not three "persons" in one God,  it became necessary for the love-God to practice on His creation, all those natural instincts of caring, teaching, protecting, admonishing, punishing, and all that goes into raising up a child in the way he should go.

And we know God is God by nature; i.,e., it is His NATURE to be God.

Consider -

"Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods."(Gal 4:8)

If God is not "God by nature" - what then is the source of his displeasure with those who are not "Gods by nature?"

Otherwise you need to explain the "unnatural God" whom we worship.

Another issue is raised which says "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets."1 Cor 14:32

Since we are made in the image of God, it necessary follows that God's spirit is subject to, (NOT EQUAL AND SEPARATE TO) The Father.

And when we look to the scriptures, we find much evidence that this is so.

JOEL 2:28-32]
"And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out MY SPIRIT upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out MY SPIRIT. 30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. 31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

ACTS 2:16-21
" But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of MY SPIRIT upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

50 A.D. I THES 4:8
"He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us HIS Holy Spirit."

56 A.D. ROM 8:11
"But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by HIS Spirit that dwelleth in you.

85 A.D. I JOHN 4:13
"Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because HE hath given us of HIS Spirit."

Gens 6:3 And Jehovah [the LORD] said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Isaiah 59:21 As for me, this is my covenant with them, saith Jehovah [the LORD]; My spirit that is upon thee, and my words which I have put in thy mouth, shall not depart out of thy mouth, nor out of the mouth of thy seed, nor out of the mouth of thy seed's seed, saith Jehovah [the LORD], from henceforth and for ever.

Isaiah 61:1 THE SPIRIT of Adonay Jehovih [the Lord GOD] is upon me; because Jehovah [the LORD] hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

Micah 2:7 O thou that art named the house of Jacob, is the spirit of Jehovah [the LORD] straitened? are these his doings? do not my words do good to him that walketh uprightly?

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

Acts 5:9 Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

[BeauJangles]

7 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Is God able to be in different forms in different places at the same time?

This question would probably be wise not to mention. It sounds like existentialism. Don't dig a hole too deep to crawl out of or paint yourself into a corner. That's a potential trap you might have difficulties loosening. 

[Behold]

7 hours ago, Wesley L said:

Is God able to be in different places at the same time?
 

This is God. :

""for thru the pre-incarnate Christ... God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."

"All things came into being through JESUS, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

---

So, metaphysically speaking, speaking as a Christian Mystic.....  God is LIFE.  He is CREATION.  So, when we see Creation, we are seeing the effect and existence as PROOF  of God's existence.

God is LIFE.  LIFE is God.   Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the LIFE".

Think of it like this.   You have dirt.  You have a Seed.   You plant the seed in the dirt.    So, HOW does it come to LIFE?     "How" is GOD.  God is LIFE.  He is the LIFE GIVER.  Jesus gives you ETERNAL LIFE, by living IN YOU, as Eternal Life.   "Resurrection" is LIFE.   "Jesus is THE Resurrection". 

So, God is in everything, as it all started from nothing and came to EXIST thru Christ.   Existence is LIFE.   Life is IN God, who manifests LIFE as Creation.... as existence, and as TIME.

So, yeah, God is everywhere all the time as LIFE.

See that ROSE IN BLOOM?  That is the LIFE OF GOD bursting forth as SPRING.

Romans 1:

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, :

Edited April 17, 2020 by Behold

[DearOldDad]

3 hours ago, Behold said:

This is God. :

""for thru the pre-incarnate Christ... God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."

Please give the scripture reference that says anything at all about "Pre-incarnate Jesus, or Pre-incarnate Christ

"All things came into being through JESUS, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being."

---This is speaking of resurrected Christ, who, upon entering Heaven and sitting at God's Right hand, all thrones and dominions and principalities and powers moved down one position in the hierarchy of Heaven, to accommodate the newly promoted Son of God. "Whether they be" Principalities; or whether they be powers; or whether they be thrones or whether they be dominions."

"whether they be" is a limiting parameter, written four times in this verse in the GREEK Original. Care to guess why the translators left three of them out?

Jesus made all things new, in four categories, and that is ALL that was under consideration. HE moved up; THEY moved down.

Then there is the problem with the subjection of Jesus at the end of the world -

God will place all under His authority, INCLUDING JESUS, who will turn the kingdom back to the Father, and be "SUBJECTED" to the Father.

1st Corinthians 15:22-28

 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the end, when he (Jesus) shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
 27 For He (GOD) hath put all things under his (Jesus) feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that He (GOD) is excepted, which did put all things under him (Jesus).

 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself (u`potageesetai)be subject(ed) unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

u`potageesetai verb indicative future passive 3rd person singular for of the verb [UBS] u`potassw =  future  passive = be put in subjection, be made subject; be put under the authority of; be put into a subordinate place.    

 

 

3 hours ago, Behold said:

So, metaphysically speaking, speaking as a Christian Mystic.....  God is LIFE.  He is CREATION.  So, when we see Creation, we are seeing the effect and existence as PROOF  of God's existence.

God is LIFE.  LIFE is God.   Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the LIFE".

Think of it like this.   You have dirt.  You have a Seed.   You plant the seed in the dirt.    So, HOW does it come to LIFE?     "How" is GOD.  God is LIFE.  He is the LIFE GIVER.  Jesus gives you ETERNAL LIFE, by living IN YOU, as Eternal Life.   "Resurrection" is LIFE.   "Jesus is THE Resurrection". 

So, God is in everything, as it all started from nothing and came to EXIST thru Christ.   Existence is LIFE.   Life is IN God, who manifests LIFE as Creation.... as existence, and as TIME.

So, yeah, God is everywhere all the time as LIFE.

See that ROSE IN BLOOM?  That is the LIFE OF GOD bursting forth as SPRING.

Romans 1:

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, :

I know of three things that are impossible for God to do.

1) God cannot stop being God.

2)God cannot lie.

3)God cannot break His word.

 Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:  18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Edited April 17, 2020 by DearOldDad
xorrekt spellynge & order of argument.

[Behold]

15 minutes ago, DearOldDad said:

I know of three things that are impossible for God to do.

1) God cannot stop being God.

2)God cannot lie.

3)God cannot break His word.

 Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:  18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

There is one more thing That God cannot ever do.  If you are born again, He cannot ever hold you accountable for your "sin" in eternity,  and that is because He has already Judged Jesus on the Cross for your sin.

God will never Judge Jesus for your sin, and then later in Eternity Judge you.

Jesus "obtained eternal redemption for the born again (us)." ..... and "eternal" , that word, does not allow for it to ever stop.  If you are born again, then you are redeemed by the blood of Jesus, forever.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Behold

[kwikphilly]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:27 PM, BeauJangles said:

First of all, thanks for the allowance to tighten up this post. It had a lot of wasted space or was it like a fill in thing for writing an essay? It kind of reminded me of high school exam paper. Second of all, I would only attempt to explain the Trinity to an open hearted Muslim.

Blessings Brother

    Most of the time if they are not even open to the Word of God & keep trying to shove the quaran down your throat then they are not open,they are looking to convert.....you have to pray discernment & if you are lead by Holy Spirit then you really don't have to "think" too much,just love a lot...

   I really believe they often choose the Trinity to deflect & manipulate in order to persist in the "ONE GOD" ,its often a deliberate "baiting" Topic -imo    I just keep the focus on our Living Redeemer