Battle of NAMES -- Christ versus Antichrist

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

9 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

The king of the north never turns on Israel.

In fact the armed forces of the north still fight for the israeli goverment AFTER te israeli goverment has been wiped out by the surrounding nations.

You just cant understand why Trump will destroy all the muslim countries around Israel.

Tell me this.Have you ever heard of the Samson  option?If not,you should google  it.When attacked and you see certain death, you take the whole house down on your enemies.

Samson option? I have the book.

[Shilohsfoal]

3 minutes ago, Jonathan Dane said:

Samson option? I have the book.

Well.If you pay attention.The armed forces dont place the abomination of desolation ib Jerusalem till after the king of the south has attacked and taken control of Jerusalem.

The Israeli goverment is dead before the armed forces use the abomination that causes desolation.The armed forces of the north bring the house down for Israel destroying all thier enemies.

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

44 minutes ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Well.If you pay attention.The armed forces dont place the abomination of desolation ib Jerusalem till after the king of the south has attacked and taken control of Jerusalem.

The Israeli goverment is dead before the armed forces use the abomination that causes desolation.The armed forces of the north bring the house down for Israel destroying all thier enemies.

I appreciate the fact that both you and Diaste seem to have all the details ironed out as what will occur in the tribulation (I myself do not). I really believe that our differences of opinion directly relate to our starting point, our hermeneutic. All systems flow out of that.

My message is really a simple one. There is an Antichrist in Scripture. The Bible actually (by different means) tells us quite a lot about his personality and characteristics. There is a man in power that fits those characteristics. And apparently, that same man does not fit into your (and Diaste's) peculiar system - your schematic. I get it. That leaves us with one of three possibilities. 1.) I have the wrong guy 2.) you have the wrong schematic 3.) we're both wrong.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. What I have that you don't is a living, breathing candidate that checks off a list a mile long. What you have is a theoretical Antichrist that has yet to appear (or at least, be known.) We'll see if mine fizzles and yours turns up.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Jonathan Dane

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I appreciate the fact that both you and Diaste seem to have all the details ironed out as what will occur in the tribulation (I myself do not). I really believe that our differences of opinion directly relate to our starting point, our hermeneutic. All systems flow out of that.

My message is really a simple one. There is an Antichrist in Scripture. The Bible actually (by different means) tells us quite a lot about his personality and characteristics. There is a man in power that fits those characteristics. And apparently, that same man does not fit into your (and Diaste's) peculiar system - your schematic. I get it. That leaves us with one of three possibilities. 1.) I have the wrong guy 2.) you have the wrong schematic 3.) we're both wrong.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. What I have that you don't is a living, breathing candidate that checks off a list a mile long. What you have is a theoretical Antichrist that has yet to appear (or at least, be known.) We'll see if mine fizzles and yours turns up.

I certainly don't have it all 'ironed out'. At best all we are going to have is the basics and it's with great assurance we will never know exactly till the events and people appear, such is the nature of prophecy.

"If it does not come to pass as spoken..." literally meaning we will not know with any real accuracy until it comes to pass. 

Rev 17:11

"...even he is the eighth and is of the seven;"

From New Republic by Graeme Wood

"...the Bahraini cleric Turki al-Bin’ali, cites a saying attributed to Muhammad that predicts a total of twelve caliphs before the end of the world. Bin’ali considers only seven of the caliphs of history legitimate. That makes Baghdadi the eighth out of twelve..."

New Republic Article

If one reads the article they would notice the Quryash lineage that is all important. This would make Baghdadi the 'eighth and of the seven' just as scripture says the beast must be. Is it that simple? And that obscure? That far fetched and seemingly ludicrous? It certainly flies in the face of popular notions of the beast. Many think he must be a great world leader, politically connected, a brilliant orator, decked out in fine apparel, rich, powerful and conniving. Maybe. But if the beast does not fit Rev 17:11 then he is not the beast.

Ever heard of anyone in the world described this way, the 8th out 12, or the 8th in succession and of the previous 7? 

Compelling to say the least.

[Shilohsfoal]

8 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

I appreciate the fact that both you and Diaste seem to have all the details ironed out as what will occur in the tribulation (I myself do not). I really believe that our differences of opinion directly relate to our starting point, our hermeneutic. All systems flow out of that.

My message is really a simple one. There is an Antichrist in Scripture. The Bible actually (by different means) tells us quite a lot about his personality and characteristics. There is a man in power that fits those characteristics. And apparently, that same man does not fit into your (and Diaste's) peculiar system - your schematic. I get it. That leaves us with one of three possibilities. 1.) I have the wrong guy 2.) you have the wrong schematic 3.) we're both wrong.

I've said it before. I'll say it again. What I have that you don't is a living, breathing candidate that checks off a list a mile long. What you have is a theoretical Antichrist that has yet to appear (or at least, be known.) We'll see if mine fizzles and yours turns up.

You failed straight out of the gate by thinking Trump is an antichrist.

John said an antichrist claims Christ has not come.Period.

John said an antichrist denies Jesus is the Christ.

You may have a candidate that fits daniels description of the king of the north, but you do not have a candidate that fits Johns description of an antichrist so you should drop that title from your list.

Second.

The king if the north never turns on Israel.He destroys those nations(beast) that attack Israel.This does not make him an antichrist.It just means he kills alot of people.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Guest Jonathan Dane]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

You failed straight out of the gate by thinking Trump is an antichrist.

John said an antichrist claims Christ has not come.Period.

John said an antichrist denies Jesus is the Christ.

You may have a candidate that fits daniels description of the king of the north, but you do not have a candidate that fits Johns description of an antichrist so you should drop that title from your list.

Second.

The king if the north never turns on Israel.He destroys those nations(beast) that attack Israel.This does not make him an antichrist.It just means he kills alot of people.

The King of the North never turns on Israel? Really? "(he) shall turn back and be enraged and take action against the holy covenant. He shall turn back and pay attention to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate. 32 He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action. 33 And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder. " (Daniel 11:30-33)

Not only does that show that the King of the North turns on Israel (notice the words, holy covenant, temple, burnt offering), it also shows that the King of the North and the Antichrist are one and the same. Who is it that performs the abomination that causes desolation? It is the Antichrist. (see verse 31)

Does "T" deny Christ and is, as such, an antichrist? "I never asked God for forgiveness. I just try to do better."

Yes--indeed he is.

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Jonathan Dane said:

The King of the North never turns on Israel? Really? "(he) shall turn back and be enraged and take action against the holy covenant. He shall turn back and pay attention to those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the regular burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate. 32 He shall seduce with flattery those who violate the covenant, but the people who know their God shall stand firm and take action. 33 And the wise among the people shall make many understand, though for some days they shall stumble by sword and flame, by captivity and plunder. " (Daniel 11:30-33)

Not only does that show that the King of the North turns on Israel (notice the words, holy covenant, temple, burnt offering), it also shows that the King of the North and the Antichrist are one and the same. Who is it that performs the abomination that causes desolation? It is the Antichrist. (see verse 31)

Does "T" deny Christ and is, as such, an antichrist? "I never asked God for forgiveness. I just try to do better."

Yes--indeed he is.

Now show me where the king of the north  invades Israel by force.

Yes i know 2 percent of Israel citizens who know God will stand firm.But the majority of Israeli citizens do not know God and about all of Israels goverment reject the holy covenant.

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-32.htm

He will flatter the Israeli goverment just as he does already.

No.He does not turn against Israel.

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-32.htm

Does the word "flattery "sound like killing jews to you?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Dennis1209]

Well, in my personal two cents worth, Trump doesn't fit the profile of the Antichrist. First off; no one can know whom it is until:

Daniel 9:27 (KJV) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Based on the trust, long time personal friendship and actions so far between Trump (the art of the deal) and Netanyahu; the historic moving of our Embassy, etc. The look on Trump's face glaring at Netanyahu when he was inadvertently spilling some beans about their negotiations and agreements at the podium... The cooperation and encouragement of some major Arab / Muslim nations to financially force some proxies hostile to Israel to accept Trump's peace plan. Given no other American peace proposal in history has come close to acceptance between the major factions... I'd say Trump's initiative is going to have support and teeth somewhere on down the line, possibly Trump's will be the one "confirmed" by the Antichrist, or maybe modified some? I don't know but am speculating on what I see during these end times?

According to Isaiah, Micah and others, the Antichrist will be an Assyrian; and have Jewish roots or a close connection to Israel. The Antichrist has numerous names / titles; the Lawless One, Man of Sin, Son of Perdition, etc. The 'name or title' of "Son of Perdition" is given to only two people in the Bible; the Antichrist and Judas Iscariot. Is there a connection, I don't know? 

The Antichrist appears to have a political and military background, he's a great military strategist. One does not become such by reading Sun Tzu, but by exposure, training and experience. Trump doesn't fit this either. 

The Antichrist will initially rise in power through flatteries and will be a master and eloquent in speech and rhetoric. Trump is definitely not eloquent in speech and rhetoric, he's definitely not a uniter; someone the world would accept as their Savior coming in his own name. He's probably the most hated and despised US President ever.

No, the only connection I see between Trump and the 'Son of Perdition'; is possibly the proposed peace plan of Trump down the road, "maybe".

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Shilohsfoal said:

Now show me where the king of the north forcably invades Israel.

Yes i know 2 percent of Israel citizens who know God will stand firm.But themajority of Israeli citizens do not know God and about all of Israels goverment reject the holy covenant.

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-32.htm

He will flatter the Israeli goverment just as he does already.

No.He does not turn against Israel.

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-32.htm

Does the word "flattery "sound like killing jews to you?

To simplify and identify, exactly who (what country today) are we identifying as "King of the North"? 

Scholars and expositors make a good biblical case it is Russia; the same holds true with Turkey. I've had the life long view the King of the North is today's Russia, based on the names and genealogical migration patterns of the descendants of Shem, Ham, Japheth and the Table of Nations. However; I can't discount Turkey either, based on what I have studied.  

Y'alls thoughts?

Edited July 2, 2019 by Dennis1209

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

To simplify and identify, exactly who (what country today) are we identifying as "King of the North"? 

Scholars and expositors make a good biblical case it is Russia; the same holds true with Turkey. I've had the life long view the King of the North is today's Russia, based on the names and genealogical migration patterns of the descendants of Shem, Ham, Japheth and the Table of Nations. However; I can't discount Turkey either, based on what I have studied.  

Y'alls thoughts?

I identify todays king of the north as Donald Trump.Ive identlified the US presidents as the king of the north since the second US/Iraq war.

Edited July 2, 2019 by Shilohsfoal