Karen C. Posted June 17, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 662 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1960 Share Posted June 17, 2002 Full Life Study Bible; Election to salvation in Christ is offered to all (John 3:16-17; 1 Tim 2:4-6;Titus 2:11; Heb. 2:9) and becomes actual for paticular persons contingent on their repentance and faith as they accept God's gift of salvation in Christ(Eph 2:8; 3:17; Acts 20:2; Romans 1:16; 4:16)At the point of faith, the believer is incorporated into the elect body of Christ (the Church) by the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 12:13), thereby becoming one of the elect. Thus, both God and humans have a decision in election(Rom. 8:29; 2 Pet. 1:1-11) PREDESTINATION. (Gk. proorizo),"to decide beforehand" and applies to God's purposes and objectives comprehended in "in Christ" of a people (the true church) for Himself. Predestination comprehends what will happen to God's people. God predestinates His elect to be: called (Rom. 8:30); justified (Rom. 3:24; 8:30); glorified (Rom. 8:30); conformed to the image of His Son (Rom. 8:29); holy and without blame (Eph. 1:4); adopted as children (1:5); redeemed (1:17); recipients of an inheritance (1:14); for the praise of His glory (Eph. 1:12, 1 Pet. 2:9); recipients of the Holy Spirit (Eph.1:13; Gal 3:14), and created for good works (Eph.2:10) Predestination, like election, refers to the corporate body of Christ (i.e., the TRUE spiritual church), and comprehends individuals only in association with that body through a present living faith in Jesus Christ (Eph 1:5,7,13; Acts 2:38-41; 16:31) The election to salvation and holiness of the body of Christ is always certain. But the certainty of election for individuals in the body remains conditional on their personal living faith in Christ Jesus and preserverance with Him. Christ will present us "holy and without blame before Him". (Eph. 1:4), only if we continue in the faith. "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be NOT moved away from the hope of the gospel" (Col.1:22-23) May you be blessed, in Christ, Karen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karen C. Posted June 18, 2002 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 34 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 662 Content Per Day: 0.08 Reputation: 5 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/15/2002 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/01/1960 Share Posted June 18, 2002 Elect, Just happened (?) to open my Bible in revival service tonight to Acts, and read 27:31. Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, "EXCEPT these abide in the SHIP, ye cannot be SAVED". The message tonight was on the wedding supper of the Lamb. Matt 22:1-14. How appropriate. The main thing is the wedding garment...For many are called, but few are chosen.. The Lord reveals Himself in so many ways. I love John 14:21, He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. That is awesome!! Bless you. In Christ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elect Posted June 18, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/24/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 18, 2002 Karen said, "Election to salvation in Christ is offered to all " But the verses you gave do not say this . "Election... (John 3:16-17; 1 Tim 2:4-6;Titus 2:11; Heb. 2:9) becomes actual for paticular persons contingent on their repentance and faith as they accept God's gift " I'm sorry, but your verses don't say this . If what you say is true, then salvation is of works(repenting, believing, accepting). But we can never believe and repent before the Father elects us(Acts 13.48). "At the point of faith, the believer is incorporated into the elect " There is no Biblical evidence for this statement . "thereby becoming one of the elect. " This is 'putting the cart before the horse', and giving the glory for salvation to man, instead of God :???: . "Thus, both God and humans have a decision in election" I'm sorry, but the verses you gave don't say this . "The election ... is always certain. But the certainty of election for individuals in the body remains conditional on their personal living faith... and preserverance with Him. " Where is the Biblical proof for this double-talk? It sounds like salvation depends on our works, after all(if this were true) . "Acts, and read 27:31. Paul said to the centurion and to the soldiers, "EXCEPT these abide in the SHIP, ye cannot be SAVED"." This ship was smashed to pieces(Acts 27.41, 44). I hope that you are not suggesting that we all get on board a ship that doesn't exist anymore . Besides, it wasn't much of a ship to trust in. Do you want us all to drown in your imaginary ship? "on the wedding supper of the Lamb. Matt 22:1-14. How appropriate. The main thing is the wedding garment...For many are called, but few are chosen.." I'm afraid this went over my head. It doesn't say that the guests came to the servants. The servants were sent to the guests :???: . Could it be that you are seeing things in here that are not there? " I love John 14:21, He that hath my commandments and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. That is awesome!!" Please don't think that I'm saying that we can disobey the commandments. I'm not saying that. Obedience is both a fruit, and an evidence of salvation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted June 22, 2002 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 56 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.39 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2002 Few are chosen? Few have accepted Jesus call be to born again! We all have a free will and God would love it if everybody would come to Him and accept His Salvation plan through His Son Jesus. We all have to choose...either we choose to listen to his call or we refuse to listen to His call. Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elect Posted June 22, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/24/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 22, 2002 Angels asked, "Few are chosen?" Yes. The words are from Mt.20.16 & 22.14 . The Bible teaches salvation by grace- meaning that the Lord has chosen whom He will save(see Eph.1.4.5). This doctrine is called 'election' in the Bible, and in church history. You added, "We all have a free will and God would love it if everybody would come to Him and accept His Salvation plan through His Son Jesus." I know that what you said is very popular among church-goers, but it has no support in the Bible. I'm sure that you could search through this thread and find other verses (besides the ones cited above ) that demonstrate to the willing hearer that the popular belief you stated is man's ideas only, and contrary to the clear testimony of Scriptures. The very idea of God's sovereignty would give us some inkling of the Lord's right to do what He will with His own- "Is it not lawful for Me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?" Mt.20.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racer Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Okay, jipsah AND elect, how do you know that you are one of the 'chosen?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest racer Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 elect said: "Do you have a verse from the Bible to support your imagined 'good ship elect'? Maybe you are kind of new at all this christianity thing. Christians arrive at truth from the Bible" Are you always so condescending? :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elect Posted June 25, 2002 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 41 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 0 Days Won: 0 Joined: 05/24/2002 Status: Offline Share Posted June 25, 2002 Racer asked, "elect, how do you know that you are one of the 'chosen?" The way that we all may know that we belong to Jesus is by reading the Bible, and checking ourselves to see if we can 'identify' with what we read there about christians. For instance, we may read- "As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after Thee, O God. My soul thirteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?" Ps.42.1,2 We meditate upon this passage, and examine ourselves. Do we pant after God? We can do the same thing with multitudes of verses in the Bible. We can, more generally, answer to ourselves that we have an ongoing hunger and thirst for God's word, we love to attend at a true church(where our souls are being fed), we have a desire to speak to God in prayer. There are times when we pour out our heart to Him. We take hold of His promises, and even His commands are precious to us. We see something of the pit from which we have been saved, and we know what horrid sinners we are. We feel our desperate need for the Lord to fill us, and work in us His own good works. This is a partial answer, at least. I hope it helps. You kindly added, "For all you know, you might think you've been called and saved, but in fact not be. You guys just might be one of the ones He sends away and claims He never knew . . . . " Your question reminds me of some verses in Proverbs- "Open rebuke is better than secret love. Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." Prov.27.5,6 It is kind of you to care so much for our poor souls, that you would encourage us to 'make our calling and election sure'. If I were to rest my assurance of salvation on my own ability to 'choose' Christ, and keep myself, continuing to not 'backslide' away from the Lord; I would surely be unsure of my salvation. But knowing that it was the Father who chose me, and sent Jesus Christ to die for me, and be raised again for me, and that the Father and the Son covenanted together with the Holy Spirit in my salvation, and they sent the Spirit into my heart, so that I was born again, as evidenced by my ongoing desires for Christ, my lifestyle, and the witness of my own spirit with Christ's Spirit in me, I have this sweet assurance that His promises are mine. I can see His merciful hand guiding in my life. I have this jealosy for the Lord's name and truth, that others might come to know this Sovereign God. And, if at last, it should be My Lord's will that He would choose to be glorified in sending me(a hell-deserving sinner, if ever there was one) to eternal damnation, my prayer is that I would kiss the Hand that smites me, and there proclaim that the Lord is righteous in all that He does- "...It is the Lord: let Him do what seemeth Him good." 1 Sam.3.18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jipsah Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 Okay, jipsah AND elect, how do you know that you are one of the 'chosen?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jipsah Posted June 25, 2002 Share Posted June 25, 2002 We all have a free will Yep, and it's that free will that rebels against God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts