The little horn

[Shilohsfoal]

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-12.htm

 

Who is it that provides the little horn with a host so that he can abolish the daily sarifice?

Could the little horn not abolish the sacrifice without the host being given to him ?

[Shilohsfoal]

Who here understands what the host is that is given to the little horn?

[ENOCH2010]

That's a great read Pup.

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Da Puppers said:

Let me start by putting together the portions of the vision with the corresponding interpretation.   It helps to see things in a clearer fashion. 

VISION: 
Dan 8:2 KJVAnd I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.

INTERPRETATION.
Dan 8:19 KJVAnd he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

VISION: 

Dan 8:3-4 KJVThen I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last. I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

INTERPRETATION. 
Dan 8:20 KJVThe ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.

VISION: 

Dan 8:5-8 KJVAnd as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes. And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power. And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand. Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

INTERPRETATION. 
Dan 8:21-22 KJVAnd the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

VISION:

Dan 8:9-11 KJVAnd out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land. And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

INTERPRETATION. 
Dan 8:23-25 KJVAnd in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

VISION: 

Dan 8:12-14 KJVAnd an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

INTERPRETATION. 
Dan 8:26 KJVAnd the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days.

The first point that I want to make is that the vision exhibits a jump in time,   [ONLY]  at verse 9 WHERE it says "in the latter time of their kingdom".  In verses 16-19 Gabriel tells us two things.  

First,  that the vision is for the "time of the end", AND 

Second,  that further declaration is made to say that it is in the "last end of the indignation"... at the appointed time,  a la moedim.

Up to verse 9, a preface is given concerning an earlier time that is pertinent to understanding the whole vision.   The opening words of Daniel 8 tells us that this vision is "part 2" addendum to an earlier vision.   That earlier vision can only be that of chapter 7 where the little horn meets his demise [given to the burning flame]  but ANOTHER shall arise after the first.   Daniel is left with an information void when he is told that this beast shall rule over the children of Israel for a period of time,  times,  and the DIVIDING of time.   Daniel 8 fills in this void of what happens to this 4th beast from the earth.  It clarifies that this vision is for the "last end of THE indignation".  This is the time of the end when God pours his indignation upon the children of Israel... in the latter time of THEIR kingdom,  when the transgressors are come to the full [end].  It's the time when God puts an end to Israel's transgressions, turning away ungodliness from Jacob by the Deliverer from Zion. 

From Daniel 8, we learn that the little horn comes from one of the 4 regional powers that arise out of the division of Alexander's kingdom.   And from Daniel 11 we learn that he comes from the region of the king of the north.   Daniel 11 is all about the escalating tensions and conflict between the king of the north and the king of the south.   Daniel 8 builds upon the little horn breaking the whole world in pieces, and causing the sanctuary to become desolate.   From the words "trodden down [under foot]" we learn from Rev 11, Daniel 8, and Luke 21,  that the desolation of Jerusalem shall last for 42 months.   This will include the sanctuary in Jerusalem, that was made desolate,  at the hands of the little horn.   

So, the explanation of verses 14ff are that the 2300 daily sacrifices are the length of time that the host is given...

BECAUSE OF DESOLATION AND TRANSGRESSION!   In verse 12 we see that "a host was given" by reason [FOR] transgression.   And in verse 13 we see that the vision is for the period during which there shall be the "transgression of desolation".  Notice that it says that a host was given by reason of transgression AND that "IT" practised and prospered, casting down the truth to the ground.   What is being said here?   The HOST of verses 12 and 13 [the focus of the vision is 2300 daily sacrifices]  is not a person,  but an IT, as in an alternative place to offer sacrifices.   It is an alternative city (to Jerusalem)  to offer corrupted sacrifices, during the time that Jerusalem lies desolate for 42 months.   The purpose of offering these sacrifices in an alternative HOST city is to open the eyes of the children of Israel to their need for the atoning work of Christ.   They must see the insufficiency of temple sacrifices in regards to God's plan of redemption for them (and the whole world!).  We can see the sufficiency of the work of Christ now.   Israel cannot,  because they seek to the righteousness of the law through the works of the law rather than thru faith.   It will take 1150 days,  the time it takes to make 2300 daily sacrifices before Israel finally sees the need for the work of the Saviour.   The desolate sanctuary at Jerusalem AND the host city will be trodden under foot for 2300 dailies before Israel finally sees the light on their need for a saviour.   This host,  is the same as mystery Babylon,  found in Revelation 17.  Micah tells us that the "daughter of Zion" shall dwell in Babylon until the day redemption comes to them. 

Verse list:    
Mic 4:8-10 KJV    And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem. Now why dost thou cry out aloud? is there no king in thee? is thy counsellor perished? for pangs have taken thee as a woman in travail. Be in pain, and labour to bring forth, O daughter of Zion, like a woman in travail: for now shalt thou go forth out of the city, and thou shalt dwell in the field, and thou shalt go even to Babylon; there shalt thou be delivered; there the LORD shall redeem thee from the hand of thine enemies.

The 10 horns shall burn Jerusalem and make her desolate.   And then God will raise up,  another host,  Mystery Babylon,  for the daughter of Zion to offer sacrifices and there be redeemed, during the last end of the indignation. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

So you believe a city other than jerusalem is given to a little horn so he can make sacrifices?

That sounds nice of someone.

Who gave him a city and where can we find this gift given to him in the bible?

PS.The host given to the little horn is a group of people such as an army.Its pronounced Tsaw-baw in hebrew.It doesnt mean,a city.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, ENOCH2010 said:

That's a great read Pup.

Only problem is the host"Tsaw-baw"in hebrew means a group of people such an army.

It does not mean a city.

[Shilohsfoal]

Now ,does anyone understand who is providing the little horn with the host(army)needed to abolish the daily sacrifice?

[Shilohsfoal]

6 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

If it was simply an army,  or group of people it would say:  "THEY cast truth to the ground"; "THEY practised and prospered".  But it says IT cast truth to the ground & practised and prospered.   The word "him" in 'an host was HIM', is in italics and is only the interpreters implied recipient of the action [given].  Your misunderstanding originates in Daniel 7.  There is 2 figures there and not just one.   The little horn perishes [given to the burning flame in Daniel 7... AND stands up to the prince of princes and is broken without hand in Daniel 8].  Most people,  including you miss the part that says that the little horn rises AMONG the 10 horns, but ANOTHER shall arise after the first...

Numerous times it is said that this kingdom has 10 horns and never does it say anything about there being 11.  It is said that the little horn breaks the whole world in pieces.   And then he dies.   When the thrones are cast down,  the ancient of days then sits in authority over all the kingdoms of the world.   An overlooked and subtle point is that all 4 kings/ beasts lose their dominion at this time.   But 3 of these beasts lose their dominion,  BUT NOT their lives.  Their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.   But not so for the 4th beast,  a la the little horn.   It explicitly states that his body is given to the burning flame.   The prolonged season & time of the 1st 3 beasts ,  ought to tell you that this is not the return of Jesus at Armageddon.   And then we see that ANOTHER shall arise AFTER the first. 

  
Dan 7:8 KJV    I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up AMONG THEM  another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in THIS HORN  were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

Dan 7:24 KJV    And the ten horns out of this kingdom are TEN KINGS that shall arise: and ANOTHER shall rise AFTER THEM; and he shall be diverse from the FIRST, and he shall subdue three kings.

Daniel 8 is about this king that arises AFTER THE FIRST and covers the last end of thee indignation.    There are 2 beasts in Rev 13! Did you not notice in Daniel 7...

1. that the (everlasting) kingdom is GIVEN to the saints,  

2. The saints take away and consume the dominion of the 4th beast? 

...The saints,  possessing the everlasting kingdom,  consume and take away the kingdom of the beast.   This means that the kingdom of the beast is a separate and different kingdom from the everlasting kingdom.   A system of sacrifices being offered at another site(host) will require an army of men to operate it.  What you will find is that when john describes Babylon in Rev 18, all of the luxuries found there are the same luxuries of a functioning temple,  the same as that of Solomon's temple.   Its not just a haphazard listing of luxuries and dainties found there. 

Be Blessed 

The PuP 

 

An army is singular.Why would it say they when it is singular.

You should look the hebrew word up for its meaning insted of giving it your own meaning.You will never understand anythig if you dont.

Tsaw-baw means a group of people like an army.That is the definition of the word for "host".

Its not a city and the word city isnot found in,the definition.

 

As for the horns.I didnt miss there are 11 all together as you claimed.But this ismot about the ten.This is about who gives the little horn an army so that the sacrifice should be abolished as seen in the following verse.

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-31.htm

You see the host given to the little horn is the armed forces which takes away the daily sacrifice.

Now,who gives the little horn the armed forces for the sacrifice to be abolished?

Edited July 10, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Dennis1209]

I'm not exactly sure what you're fishing for; but I'll throw in my two bits.

As most already know, a horn(s) is generally symbolic in scripture of power. And as you rightly state, a "host" generally means an army or large group. 

As far as whom gives the Antichrist anything? We know he is Satan's man and he gets his power and authority from him. If we are indeed living in the last days as I believe; we should have an idea of the global earthly structure that will be doing the giving. I personally can't see anyone else or anything else at present than the already establish United Nations. The global one world system is already primed and in place. Whom is the head of the United nations? The Secretary General. 

Historically; 90% of UN resolutions and votes have gone against Israel and in favor of Israel's adversaries. No doubt it will be 100% here in the near future, as ALL the world will be against Israel.

Am I understanding you question correctly?

[Shilohsfoal]

11 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're fishing for; but I'll throw in my two bits.

As most already know, a horn(s) is generally symbolic in scripture of power. And as you rightly state, a "host" generally means an army or large group. 

As far as whom gives the Antichrist anything? We know he is Satan's man and he gets his power and authority from him. If we are indeed living in the last days as I believe; we should have an idea of the global earthly structure that will be doing the giving. I personally can't see anyone else or anything else at present than the already establish United Nations. The global one world system is already primed and in place. Whom is the head of the United nations? The Secretary General. 

Historically; 90% of UN resolutions and votes have gone against Israel and in favor of Israel's adversaries. No doubt it will be 100% here in the near future, as ALL the world will be against Israel.

Am I understanding you question correctly?

You understand what a host is and thats a start.This has nothing to do with the UN or a world governing body.

This actually consists of three subjects.

1-The little horn

2-The host which is given to the little horn so that the sacrifice may be abolished.

3-The king of the north whos army it is.

In the following verse we are told the little horn is given a host(army)to abolish the daily sacrifice.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-12.htm

In the following verse we are told whos army it belongs.

https://biblehub.com/niv/daniel/11-31.htm

As we see it is the king of the north that gives the use of his armed forces to the little horn in order to abolish the daily sacrifice.

The little horn is that country who recieves the armed forces of the north.That is Israel.

It is Israel who is given a host by the king if the north in order to abolish the daily sacrifice.

Do you understand why Benjamin Netanyahu was unable to form a goverment this last election?

I will tell you.A sacrifice Israelis must make according to thier law is the problem Netanyahu is facing.With a growing number of haredi and thier reluctance to offer themsrlves to such sacrifice is causing great division within Israel.And the problem is only going to get worse as the country's haredi population outgrows the secular population.Tge haredi population is now 10 petcent but is outpacing the rest of the country.

The sacrifice Israelis make is not a sacrifice to God.It is not the killing of animals.The sacrifice Israelis make is to thier king(thats english for Moloch).At the age of 18 every male and female must offer themselves to thier goverment.Itscalled the draft or conscription.This is Israels greatest dilemma .They need someone to give them an army.An army to just do away with that sacrifice and they need it very soon.

This is a good article to help understand Israels dilemma. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jun/01/israel-conscription-taxes-netanyahu-resentments-behind-crisis

Edited July 11, 2019 by Shilohsfoal

[Shilohsfoal]

2 hours ago, Da Puppers said:

 Your question is based on an assumption that is not true... that the host was given to the little horn for the purpose of causing the daily sacrifice to cease.  

Firstly,  it says that HE, the little horn causes it to cease:

Dan 8:11 KJV Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

Secondly the thrust of the vision is what happens "in the LAST END of the indignation"...2300 dailies,  1150 days.   The desolation of Jerusalem and the rise of the 2nd beast takes place 42 months before the kingdom of the beast. (From the earth ends).  At best,  1150 days is between 38 and 39 months.   This means that this "another [of Daniel 7:24] arises", before the 1150 days begins.   This 'another ' and the little horn are the two beasts (from the sea  and the earth) of Rev 13.  Because there are 2 prominent figures at that time(beast and false prophet), you can not rule out that the host was given to the 2nd beast. 

Thirdly,  the host was given after the little horn causes the daily to cease,  and not to accomplish that feat (making it cease).  This was already illustrated in my first point that Jerusalem shall be desolate for 42 months,  which takes place before the 1150 days begins.   

Fourthly, tsa-ba', H6635, does not exclusively mean an army.   It can mean service: 

1. that which goes forth, army, war, warfare, host

1. army, host
   1. host (of organised army)
   2. host (of angels)
   3. of sun, moon, and stars
   4. of whole creation
2. war, warfare, service, go out to war
3. service  

No,im not assuming.

 

THE WORD OF GOD SAYS A HOST IS GIVEN HIM AGAINST THEDAILY SACRIFICE.

https://biblehub.com/kjv/daniel/8-12.htm

It is given,him,for that reason and does not say it was for any other reason.Unless your just wanting to make something up.

And yes ,it could mean,service.Could be one of the armed services or more than,one of the armed services.

Daniel 11: 31 says his "armed forces"ehich is the same as the armed services.

You know like the Navy,Army,Air Forces,Marines.

The armed services.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Shilohsfoal