The Difference between Dan. 70th week & the Tribulation.

[Marilyn C]

The Difference between Daniel`s 70th week and the Tribulation.
 

Daniel`s 70th Week.

`Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, (National rebellion)…..and to anoint the Most Holy.` (Dan. 9: 24)

This prophecy was given to the people of Israel revealing the time of chastisement by God till there would be atonement and National Deliverance.

God declared this long ago. `He will provide atonement for His land and His people.` (Deut. 32: 43)
 

Most of the 70 x 7 years have been fulfilled with only 7 years to go. In Revelation 8 we see the beginning of this atonement for Israel`s national rebellion. The Lord, the High Priest has paid the price with His precious blood, and we see Him represented before God`s throne in the heavenly sanctuary, interceding for Israel.

Throughout Rev. 8 - 19 we read of the Lord`s Mediatorial role for Israel, and we see the `temple` in heaven opened. The Ark of the Covenant is seen, the Lord Himself coming forth, bringing National Deliverance to Israel.

[Marilyn C]

The Tribulation.
 

Alongside God`s dealing with Israel, (the 70th week for atonement & deliverance) we read of God avenging and rendering vengeance upon His adversaries.

`Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people for He will avenge the blood of His servants, and render vengeance to His adversaries…` (Deut.32: 43)

Here we read of God`s great mercy for as He is dealing with those who killed His servants, and dealing vengeance upon His adversaries, we see that there are Gentiles who will turn to Him & rejoice at God`s judgments. This time of God`s vengeance, His anger, His wrath, speaks of punishment to those for their iniquity.

`For behold, the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity…..` (Isa. 26: 21)
 

Revelation 8 reveals when this punishment begins. We see the Lord, the High priest throws the incense and fire to the earth.

`Then the angel took the censor, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth. And there were noises, thundering, lightnings, and an earthquake.` (Rev. 8: 5)

We are told that when the world is saying `Peace & Safety,` then sudden destruction.

`For when they say, “Peace & Safety,” then sudden destruction comes upon them as labour pains upon a pregnant woman.` (1 Thess.5: 3)
 

This is what the Lord revealed in Matthew 24: 8, `all these are the beginning of sorrows,` meaning `birth pangs.`

[Marilyn C]

Summing up.
 

Thus I see that God is dealing with Israel and also with the Gentiles.

God gives seven years to bring about atonement to Israel and deliverance from their enemies. This is the final seven years of the 70 x 7 weeks.

Then alongside God`s dealings with Israel we read that He will avenge and give vengeance to his adversaries. This is called the tribulation and does not last the full seven years of Israel`s dealings, but is cut short for the elect`s sake.

`And if those days had not been shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect`s sake those days will be shortened.`(Matt. 24: 22)

 

Daniel`s 70th week - Israel`s chastisement. (7 years)

The Tribulation - The Gentiles judgment. (less than 7 years)

 

Marilyn.

[douggg]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:34 PM, Marilyn C said:

Summing up.
 

Thus I see that God is dealing with Israel and also with the Gentiles.

God gives seven years to bring about atonement to Israel and deliverance from their enemies. This is the final seven years of the 70 x 7 weeks.

Then alongside God`s dealings with Israel we read that He will avenge and give vengeance to his adversaries. This is called the tribulation and does not last the full seven years of Israel`s dealings, but is cut short for the elect`s sake.

`And if those days had not been shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect`s sake those days will be shortened.`(Matt. 24: 22)

 

Daniel`s 70th week - Israel`s chastisement. (7 years)

The Tribulation - The Gentiles judgment. (less than 7 years)

 

Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,

"the tribulation" is a term found in Matthew 24:29 - "after the tribulation of those days".    

The great tribulation is not cut short, as to mean reducing the number of days.   But "limited" to the number of days, other wise no flesh will survive.

It seem to me that you are trying to explain what the tribulation of those days means is saying it applies to the gentiles, but not Israel.

But the great tribulation is a time of testing of all who will be on the earth at the time.  Both Israel and the nations.

However, there is the promise of Jesus to them of the church of Philedephia, to be kept from it.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The "tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29 is the great tribulation short of two bowls of God's wrath, the 6th and 7th bowl.

After "the tribulation of those days" is the event of the sixth seal, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

Then the sixth bowl of God's wrath, which the armies gather at Armageddon in preparation to make war of Jesus. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by Jesus's return down to earth to destroy those armies, cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, destroy the image of the beast, and bind Satan in chains and cast him into the bottomless pit - ending the Great Tribulation.

Israel and the nations both will go through the period called the Great Tribulation, which will begin when the AoD is placed in the temple.    And the ending of it will be the same for both of them.   By Jesus's return.

 

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

39 minutes ago, douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

"the tribulation" is a term found in Matthew 24:29 - "after the tribulation of those days".    

The great tribulation is not cut short, as to mean reducing the number of days.   But "limited" to the number of days, other wise no flesh will survive.

It seem to me that you are trying to explain what the tribulation of those days means is saying it applies to the gentiles, but not Israel.

But the great tribulation is a time of testing of all who will be on the earth at the time. 

There is the promise of Jesus to them of the church of Philedephia, to be kept from it.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The "tribulation of those days" in Matthew 24:29 is the great tribulation short of two bowls of God's wrath, the 6th and 7th bowl.

After "the tribulation of those days" is the event of the sixth seal, the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

Then the sixth bowl of God's wrath, which the armies gather at Armageddon in preparation to make war of Jesus. Followed by the seventh bowl of God's wrath. Followed by Jesus's return down to earth to destroy those armies, cast the beast and false prophet into the lake of fire, destroy the image of the beast, and bind Satan in chains and cast him into the bottomless pit - ending the Great Tribulation.

Israel and the nations both will go through the period called the Great Tribulation, which will begin when the AoD is placed in the temple.    And the ending of it will be the same for both of them.

Hi douggg,

 

Yes Israel & the Gentiles go through the tribulation & great tribulation, however we see God does watch over Israel so that some will come through.

`I will bring one-third through the fire...` (Zech. 13: 9)

Also I think you are forgetting this passage of scripture -

`But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent.` (Rev. 12: 14)

 

What I was pointing out is God`s reason for the tribulation and for the chastisement. Two different purposes going on at the same time.

1. Daniel`s 70th week - God declared this long ago. `He will provide atonement for His land and His people.` (Deut. 32: 43)

2. Tribulation `Rejoice, O Gentiles, with His people for He will avenge the blood of His servants, and render vengeance to His adversaries…` (Deut.32: 43)

Marilyn.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

What I was pointing out is God`s reason for the tribulation and for the chastisement. Two different purposes going on at the same time.

Marilyn,

The issue I have is you are creating your own vocabulary definition for "the tribulation", presenting it as bible vocabulary.

It you were to say that the 70weeks, including the 70th week, are determined on Daniel' people and Jerusalem, a new vocabulary for that is not necessary.    And it would Biblically correct.

The difference between the 70th week of Daniel and the "tribulation" (of those days) is...

The 70th week begins with the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.   Part of the 70th week includes the world saying peace and safety.

Differently, the "tribulation" begins when the AoD is placed in the temple.   And will be a time of testing upon all the world.

The tribulation as used in the text of Matthew 24:29, is the great tribulation short of two bowls of God's wrath.

____________________________________________

To avoid confusion that has been created by the constant use of the term "the tribulation" coming from many of them in the pre-tribulation rapture view to mean the 7 year 70th week.    imo, it is better not to use the term "the tribulation" in bible discussions at all, and to refer to the period as the 7 years or 7 year 70th week.

And great tribulation for the great tribulation timeframe, from when the AoD is placed in the temple to the day that Jesus returns.

 

Edited August 20, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

13 hours ago, douggg said:

Marilyn,

The issue I have is you are creating your own vocabulary definition for "the tribulation", presenting it as bible vocabulary.

It you were to say that the 70weeks, including the 70th week, are determined on Daniel' people and Jerusalem, a new vocabulary for that is not necessary.    And it would Biblically correct.

The difference between the 70th week of Daniel and the "tribulation" (of those days) is...

The 70th week begins with the confirming of the covenant for 7 years.   Part of the 70th week includes the world saying peace and safety.

Differently, the "tribulation" begins when the AoD is placed in the temple.   And will be a time of testing upon all the world.

The tribulation as used in the text of Matthew 24:29, is the great tribulation short of two bowls of God's wrath.

____________________________________________

To avoid confusion that has been created by the constant use of the term "the tribulation" coming from many of them in the pre-tribulation rapture view to mean the 7 year 70th week.    imo, it is better not to use the term "the tribulation" in bible discussions at all, and to refer to the period as the 7 years or 7 year 70th week.

And great tribulation for the great tribulation timeframe, from when the AoD is placed in the temple to the day that Jesus returns.

 

Hi douggg,

I hear what you are saying, however the Lord does give the beginning of the tribulation before the Great tribulation.

` All these are the beginning of sorrows..` (Matt. 24: 8)  `sorrows,` here is likened to `birth pangs.`

This is the same as in the Lord`s warning -

`For when they say "Peace and Safety," then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labour pains upon a pregnant woman.` (1 Thess. 5: 3)

Thus we see that the tribulation will come upon the world suddenly and then increase in intensity, as labour/birth pains.

Marilyn.

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

I hear what you are saying, however the Lord does give the beginning of the tribulation before the Great tribulation.

` All these are the beginning of sorrows..` (Matt. 24: 8)  `sorrows,` here is likened to `birth pangs.`

 

Hi Marilyn,

Matthew 24:5 begins following Jesus leaving this world, to...
Matthew 24:15 the day that the AoD is placed in the temple in the end times, beginning the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:8 is not referring to the "Immediately after the tribulation of those days...." of Matthew 24:29.      The tribulation of those days begin with the AoD placed in the temple.

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

This is the same as in the Lord`s warning -

`For when they say "Peace and Safety," then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labour pains upon a pregnant woman.` (1 Thess. 5: 3)

Thus we see that the tribulation will come upon the world suddenly and then increase in intensity, as labour/birth pains.

1Thessalonians5:3 is end times, specifically what the world will be saying during the first part of the seven years, thinking it has entered the messianic age, with the Antichrist person as the perceived messiah. (It's on my chart)

The sudden destruction comes when the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claiming to have achieved God-hood.    Shattering the peace and safety saying.    And his ToD act triggering the beginning of the Day of the Lord (called the Day of Christ in 2Thessalonians2:2).

Differently, although shortly following, is the Great tribulation triggered by the AoD abomination of desolation statue image of the beast placed in the temple.

Marilyn, just for you, I put the tribulation of those days on my chart, in the proper place.   It is down at the bottom.  

From the AoD placed in the temple, 1290 days, i.e. the tribulation of those days, to the sixth seal, then the gathering of the armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus, then Jesus's Return.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by douggg

[Marilyn C]

5 hours ago, douggg said:

Hi Marilyn,

 

 

Hi douggg,

The first trumpet is the `sudden destruction.` All of the green grass is burnt, and a third of the trees. This deals with the food production. From there things begin to escalate as `pains upon a pregnant woman.`

Marilyn. 

[douggg]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi douggg,

The first trumpet is the `sudden destruction.` All of the green grass is burnt, and a third of the trees. This deals with the food production. From there things begin to escalate as `pains upon a pregnant woman.`

Marilyn. 

Hi Marilyn,

The sudden destruction begins when the Antichrist reveals himself to be the man of sin, in 2Thessalonians2:4, and the Jews - mortified - reject him from continuing at their king.    And he begins to persecute them.

The trumpets judgements and 5 of the bowls of God's wrath are in "the tribulation of those days" I show on my chart.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Do you remember how we were differing over the end of the 1290 days and the 1335 days, when those end?     I was saying that those are in the 7year, 70th week.   And you were saying that those extend well past Jesus's return.       Can you now see the rationale in my thinking?    And the tribulation of those days of Matthew 24:29 concluding with the event of the sixth seal?

 

Edited August 21, 2019 by douggg