Why Did Jesus Die For Us

[Abigailwc]

Does faith save? Not if there are NO WORKS accompanying it.

The works you are talking about are the results of our faith. If we have faith we will act upon it and show works of faith. We act because we believe. It comes hand in hand.

[tsth]

.well,He could have empowered humanity to perform GOOD PERFECT WORKS and then WHY SEND HIS SON TO DIE?

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Go back and read the OP, it will answer your above question!

In His Love,

Suzanne

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In His Love Suzanne,Shalom

let me ask you:

DO YOU STILL SIN? yes/no WILLFUL SIN??? NO, I no longer live in bondage. Unintentional, yes, but the Holy Spirit reveals where I have been displeasing, that is where I learn to repent and yield to His Will.

DO YOU ALWAYS DO THE WILL OF GOD,24/7 around the clock?yes/no You will have to ask Him? I fervently seek His Will each and every day continuously through His Word, but I only can do what I have heard, but I have not wilfully in my heart disobeyed what He has directly asked of me.

DO YOU LOVE GOD and YOUR NEIGHBOUR PERFECTLY?yes/no? Again I answered that above.

DO YOU WALK IN PERFECT FAITH ALL THE TIME?yes/no

Do I believe to the point of obedience to what I hear, Yes.

In essence, you are asking me, if my heart condemns me. No, it does not. I know that the Lord Jesus is my Master, and He is able to accomplish so much more than we ever dreamed, especially in our weaknesses. His grace is sufficient for me.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

In His Love,

Suzanne

if you ask me those questions I'll answer you...

Please ,I am asking this in love,answer my questions...with a YES or a NO...and then I tell you what I mean..thanks

May God bless you sister..

Shalom

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[Trust & Obey]

Suzanne, unregerate means "not born-again." They have not been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. They are what the Bible calls "the natural man."

[EricH]

If there is any tension here it is not because of God, it is because we are not understanding perfectly or stating the doctrine perfectly. I think it is also because we are not really listening to one another.

There are dangers on both sides of the aisle. For those that are stressing the role of works in salvation, the danger is that they will communicate a gospel that is centered on the efforts of man. For those that are stressing faith, the danger is that they will communicate "easy believism" or as Bonhoeffer described "Cheap Grace". Those who hold that works play a role in salvation need to be able to explain the passage in Ephesians that says we are not saved by works. Those who hold we are saved by faith alone need to be able to explain in what sense Abraham was saved by works. Throwing up a verse that states the opposite does not prove any thing other than neither side has come to perfect understanding, or their explanations are not complete or clear. Any theology that claims to be Biblical must take into account all scriptures that speak to the subject. Otherwise one is practicing the idea of a canon within the canon.

I think caution is needed here. We need to make sure that the gospel is not changed in anyway just so we appear to win an argument or make our point. We also need to make sure we are not misrepresenting the position of others by setting up straw-men to knock down. I think too, we need to respond to the texts others present, and not just respond with "what about this other verse?" Other wise it degenerates into people lobbing shells at one another trying to get the last word. If we don't start responding to the verses other people present and their interaction with our verses, and really start trying to connect, this discussion will accomplish nothing. It will be a series of verse bombardments.

Lastly, it is not enough to say "you are misunderstanding that verse". Just saying it does not make it so. One must be able to demonstrate from the text itself and the context how the person has misused it. I find it very hard to have a discussion with someone when they present me with a scripture saying it means a certain thing. I take the time to show them why I think their conclusions are incorrect. They proceed to present another verse, rather than interacting with my reasoning. That is not a discussion. It is one person lobbing verses and then watching the other dance. The lobber is not putting skin in the game. It leads me to believe they really don't care what I have to say, they just want to unload.

Here are key question each person needs to answer in terms of this discussion:

1. What defines biblical faith?

2. Is man in anyway able to earn his salvation?

3. Is unsaved man able to perform works that please God in any way

4. What is the logical relationship between faith and works

5. Given your definitions above, how would you go about sharing the gospel with someone?

6. What is the proper method for determining the meaning of words in a biblical text?

7. How many "meanings" does a text have?

Lastly, we need to stop playing to the gallery. Labling people or appealing to examples of people that hold to the same position and abuse it are not fair arguments. This tactic actually demonstrates that the person who is using it does not feel his own argument is strong, so they resort to emotional tactics.

[jc49]

.well,He could have empowered humanity to perform GOOD PERFECT WORKS and then WHY SEND HIS SON TO DIE?

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Go back and read the OP, it will answer your above question!

In His Love,

Suzanne

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In His Love Suzanne,Shalom

let me ask you:

DO YOU STILL SIN? yes/no WILLFUL SIN??? NO, I no longer live in bondage. Unintentional, yes, but the Holy Spirit reveals where I have been displeasing, that is where I learn to repent and yield to His Will.

DO YOU ALWAYS DO THE WILL OF GOD,24/7 around the clock?yes/no You will have to ask Him? I fervently seek His Will each and every day continuously through His Word, but I only can do what I have heard, but I have not wilfully in my heart disobeyed what He has directly asked of me.

DO YOU LOVE GOD and YOUR NEIGHBOUR PERFECTLY?yes/no? Again I answered that above.

DO YOU WALK IN PERFECT FAITH ALL THE TIME?yes/no

Do I believe to the point of obedience to what I hear, Yes.

In essence, you are asking me, if my heart condemns me. No, it does not. I know that the Lord Jesus is my Master, and He is able to accomplish so much more than we ever dreamed, especially in our weaknesses. His grace is sufficient for me.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

In His Love,

Suzanne

if you ask me those questions I'll answer you...

Please ,I am asking this in love,answer my questions...with a YES or a NO...and then I tell you what I mean..thanks

May God bless you sister..

Shalom

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Dear Suzie

I asked straight yes or straight no.

you have given me articulate explainations and I have NO INTENTION to see if your heart condems or not etc...

Can we play again?

can you or anybody reading this question answer YES/no STRAIGHT ADDING NOTHING....I ask this friendly and lovely...I have a reason,thanks

Shalom

[EricH]

.well,He could have empowered humanity to perform GOOD PERFECT WORKS and then WHY SEND HIS SON TO DIE?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Go back and read the OP, it will answer your above question!

In His Love,

Suzanne

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In His Love Suzanne,Shalom

let me ask you:

DO YOU STILL SIN? yes/no WILLFUL SIN??? NO, I no longer live in bondage. Unintentional, yes, but the Holy Spirit reveals where I have been displeasing, that is where I learn to repent and yield to His Will.

DO YOU ALWAYS DO THE WILL OF GOD,24/7 around the clock?yes/no You will have to ask Him? I fervently seek His Will each and every day continuously through His Word, but I only can do what I have heard, but I have not wilfully in my heart disobeyed what He has directly asked of me.

DO YOU LOVE GOD and YOUR NEIGHBOUR PERFECTLY?yes/no? Again I answered that above.

DO YOU WALK IN PERFECT FAITH ALL THE TIME?yes/no

Do I believe to the point of obedience to what I hear, Yes.

In essence, you are asking me, if my heart condemns me. No, it does not. I know that the Lord Jesus is my Master, and He is able to accomplish so much more than we ever dreamed, especially in our weaknesses. His grace is sufficient for me.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. 19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God. 22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

In His Love,

Suzanne

if you ask me those questions I'll answer you...

Please ,I am asking this in love,answer my questions...with a YES or a NO...and then I tell you what I mean..thanks

May God bless you sister..

Shalom

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<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I weant to make sure I understand what you are saying here. When you say you no longer sin willfuly do you mean that you never sin with awareness? For instance, since you have become a Christian, have you ever lied? Were you aware of the lie when you told it. Have you ever been angry with some-one? It seems what you are saying is that the only sins you now commit are ones you are not aware of when you do them. Is that correct?

I don't understand your response to God's will. It seems like a cop-out to say "you will have to ask God". The Bible is God's revelation of His will for us. So I guess I would ask you are you perfectly fulfilling God's revealed will as he makes it clear in scripture

Your resonse to loving you neighbor is also unclear. Do you love other people more than yourself at all times. DO you always put their interests ahead of your own?

[EricH]

Also, any theology that supports the ability of believers to live completely without sin must take into account 1 John 1:8-10

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all nrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

The tense of the verb "confess" in verse 9 is in the present indicative active which describes ongoing action in the eyes of the author. Why would there be a need to continue to confess sin, if we no longer sin.

Any theology of sin in the believer's life must take into account that the new nature still resides with the old sin nature. That is what Paul described in Romans

[Imamom]

Why did Jesus die for me? Simple, he died for me because he knew that on my own I would never be able to enter the kingdom of heaven. He knew that I am born into the world and made of flesh and that I would make mistakes along the way. Jesus died for me to make me right before God the Father. He sure does love me alot to do that for me.

[tsth]

Why such opposition to the effectual works of grace? Is God able or not?

Don't be like Cain.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[EricH]

Why such opposition to the effectual works of grace?  Is God able or not?

Don't be like Cain.

In His Love,

Suzanne

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I have absolutely no resistance to the concept that once we are saved, God gives us the power to overcome sin and to do good works. That true biblical faith will produce works. What I am resistant to is adding to the gospel in any way. Of placing any credit for our salvation in the hands of man. Of adding to the work Christg did on the Cross. I am also hesitant when someone trys to convince me that they no longer sin willfuly. It implies to me that their sin is now something outside of themselves.

The reference to us being like Cain was what I was talking about in my earlier post. It is not helpful and is emotional in nature. God's grace motivated Him to saves us and God's grace motivated Him to give us a new nature that is able to obey. Unfortunately we still retain a sin nature as well. They battle against one another. Thank God that He is greater than our sin nature. But like Paul in Romans there are times that in my weakness I listen to the wrong one. I don't have to, but I do. It is my fault and I take full responsibility for it. That is why I cling to 1 John 1:9