Prove/Disprove my theory

[AgnosticFront84]

Agnostic, let me first say that I used to listen to that band way back in the late 80's. Oh, what ugly days those were. 

Anyways, let me ask you something. Where are you right now with Jesus Christ? You seem a little too "versed."

What is keeping you from trusting the Lord Jesus and thereby walking through the "right Door?"

Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right now with Jesus? I am nowhere. I am an ex-christian with questions that could never be answered. Please read my post to find out my history with christianity:

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24055

And please, no witnessing to me, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Quoting the bible to me as a witnessing tool is like me quoting from a book of Wicca to you.

[Ovedya]

You expect not to be witness to in a Christian forum?

Isn't that a bit like expecting to order steak in a vegetarian restaurant?

[ayin jade]

Just my uneducated guess, but given that we are all interconnected, our lives touching others, then those "doomed" souls may play a necessary part in bringing another to salvation. Perhaps that is why. I really dont know. What I do know is that the Lord loves us, and that His way is best. I cant begin to understand His ways. I can trust Him though.

[ayin jade]

You expect not to be witness to in a Christian forum? 

Isn't that a bit like expecting to order steak in a vegetarian restaurant? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And expecting no one to order meat at a steakhouse because you dont want to see it.

[AgnosticFront84]

Grace to you,

I would have to agree with Ovedya.

You also are negating the fact that due to your Free will. God cannot make you do anything. Therefore He is not liable for the choices you have made.  Especially when the Truth has been known as evidenced by the very Creation itself.

God is not looking for Puppets. It would have been pretty easy to make us all have strings and to dance around to the beat of His drum. However that is not Love. That is slavery at the point of His Will. He Loves us too much for that.

People, please read my post two or three times before responding. You are missing the point, Dave. I stated that the problem is with God CREATING people/souls KNOWING where they will end up because of THEIR OWN CHOICES.

That would garner Him no Glory. I myself am a bondservant to the Lord Jesus Christ out of gratitude for the Love He has extended to me. I Freely accept His Lordship over my life. I Freely lay down my Freedom to His Will. I have never ever been so Free. Free to be a child in the House of my Father.

Good for you, Dave. Although this has absolutely nothing to do with my original post, good on ya.

You are making the same argument as the prodigal son;

Lu

[AgnosticFront84]

You expect not to be witness to in a Christian forum? 

Isn't that a bit like expecting to order steak in a vegetarian restaurant? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

LOL. Good point

[AgnosticFront84]

Just my uneducated guess, but given that we are all interconnected, our lives touching others, then those "doomed" souls may play a necessary part in bringing another to salvation. Perhaps that is why. I really dont know. What I do know is that the Lord loves us, and that His way is best. I cant begin to understand His ways. I can trust Him though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also believe we are all interconnected. To say that god creates doomed souls to help bring others to salvation only supports my theory that god is evil. What if I am one of those doomed souls created to help others to salvation? How much love do you think I'm feeling from God now? I am nothing but a pawn in his game.

[Trust & Obey]

Agnostic, let me first say that I used to listen to that band way back in the late 80's. Oh, what ugly days those were. 

Anyways, let me ask you something. Where are you right now with Jesus Christ? You seem a little too "versed."

What is keeping you from trusting the Lord Jesus and thereby walking through the "right Door?"

Joh 10:9  I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right now with Jesus? I am nowhere. I am an ex-christian with questions that could never be answered. Please read my post to find out my history with christianity:

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=24055

And please, no witnessing to me, been there, done that, bought the T-shirt. Quoting the bible to me as a witnessing tool is like me quoting from a book of Wicca to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AF, I understand that you're an "ex-Christian." But, like Ovedya said, this is a Christian forum and it is our heart's desire to see you return to the Lord.

There are many things about God that we cannot fully understand. Paul understood that, too. I'll quote it here for your review, not as a matter of witnessing.

Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

These are hard sayings, and Paul anticipated that in verse 19 above. But, like my Pastor always says, don't let what you DON'T know about God override the things that you DO know. And, I DO know that God loves me. I DO know that God desires all to come to repentance and be saved. I DO know that God went to the length of sacrificing His own Son so I, and you, would not have to perish in hell.

I'm not going to entertain your "prove or disprove" game. It will profit nothing.

But, one thing I leave you with. Anytime I grow weary in my walk with the Lord I always fall back on this, AF.

Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.

If you aren't going to run to Jesus, then WHO are you going to run to?

[Pax]

Here is a theory set up like a logic proof in regards to free will and God's omniscience.  Please feel free to criticize or explain how it would be false. This is all in terms of christianity and the bible.

Given:

God is omnipotent

God is omniscient

We have free-will

Agree? OK, good.  Here goes:

God is omniscient (all-knowing), meaning there is absolutely nothing he does not know past, present, and future.  As humans on this earth, we have the ability to make the choices we want that will either lead us into heaven or hell.  To reject Jesus Christ as God's son and our Lord and Savior will result in a trip to hell.  When God wants to create a new soul (let's call him Bob), he knows what choices Bob will make before he makes them.  Realize Bob is still making the choices because of his free-will and God is just watching knowing what he'll decide.  God always knew what Bob will decide all the way until he dies and knows wether he'll end up in heaven or hell.  Let's say Bob is a christian and like your average christian goes through many phases of his relationship to his faith such as being saved, backsliding, re-dedicating his life to christ, backsliding, losing faith in christianity, re-dedicating his life (you know what I'm talkin about  ).  Unfortunately, when Bob dies he made the wrong choice and ends up in hell. Now, God KNEW that Bob would end up in hell for eternity before he even created him. To say that God didn't know would be taking knowledge from God making his omniscient status a falsehood. So, God MUST have known what choices Bob would make and where he would end up. To me, this makes God an evil God. Why would he have created a soul knowing it would inevitably be in an eternal fiery furnace. So full of love to create a being he KNEW would end up in the pyrotechnic playground. Why? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Your theory was completely correct until you got to the part of calling God an evil God. God is a merciful and Just God. God gives all of us enough grace to make it to heaven, it's just that many of us don't tap into that grace. Bob would have plenty of oppurtunites to reach salvation, but through his free-will he didn't take advantage of those graces. Free-Will is a very key component for salvation. It is the greatest gift God has given us. We can chose to spend eternity in heaven, or we can chose to spend eternity in hell. Just make sure that you don't end up like Bob, and help as many others as you can not to end up like Bob.

[Ovedya]

I'll get to my point, AF, to save a little time.

The idea that God continually "creates" souls is false, and not supported by the Bible, which we hold as the final authority on Christian theology.

All of creation was created by God, and placed into its cycle within a span of six days. Now, you as an Agnostic are likely to disagree with this point. But humor me for a moment, since we are discussing matters of Biblical theology. We can discuss the issues of Biblical authorship, relaibility, etc., at a later time. I want to keep this discussion on-track for now.

All of life on the earth has a cycle. Living organisms are procreated, live, and die all within their own sphere, with God's intervention being largely out of the picture. Therefore, when God created all the living things, He merely set into motion the cycles in which they live.

So to say that "God creates" souls is wrong. God is not in the process of creation any longer. He has already created everything and set their cycles into motion.

This puts a different perspective on your hypothetical. God has already set into motion the cycle of progeny, life, and death. So then, perhaps your question should really be, "Why doesn't God stop this process?"