A question about marriage

[Adstar]

5 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Yes, I'm very well aware the admonishment of not being unequally yoked with unbelievers. And the Apostle Paul lists all the disadvantages of a marriage with an unsaved spouse as well.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 ¹⁴Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? ¹⁵And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ¹⁶And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. ¹⁷Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the LORD, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. ¹⁸And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the LORD Almighty.  KJV

Agreed, pretty heavy stuff with strong advisement. But let's read further on this. 

Ephesians 5:22-25 ²²Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the LORD. ²³For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. ²⁴Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. ²⁵Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;  KJV

Ephesians 5:28 ²⁸So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.  KJV

Colossians 3:18-19 ¹⁸Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the LORD. ¹⁹Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.  KJV

Does it not call for the believing spouse to set the example of godliness to the other, with the hopeful eventuality of salvation for the one who has no saving knowledge of Christ? But where does it say, "This is a sin, don't do it." ??? Here's what the word does say.

1 Peter 3:1 ¹Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;  KJV

I was not talking about a person who was already married when they became a Christian.. If a person is married to an unbeliever when they come to Christ they should remain with their unbelieving partner.. But once one is a Christian they should not decide to get married to an unbeliever.. Two very different situations, Two different responces / policies..

[BeauJangles]

2 hours ago, Adstar said:

But once one is a Christian they should not decide to get married to an unbeliever.. Two very different situations, Two different responces / policies..

Sooo... You're right and the gospel is of no apparent truth to you? Gotcha. 

[Billiards Ball]

18 hours ago, Melinda12 said:

A situation. A couple have been living together unmarried for years. Then one becomes a Christian. The other is not yet willing to do the same. But they do now decide to get married as they are in love and could not possibly bear to part - though only one is a follower of Christ. 

Are they now both acceptable in the sight of God? The uneven yoking will be a problem but is it still a sin? 

A young couple like this need advice from experienced Christians please. 

Is the Christian willing to "enjoy" unsaved children, who waffle in belief because "Mom believes Jesus is real, Dad believes Jesus doesn't exist"?

Do you need more reasons to wait?

And it's not "marry a Christian" it's "marry a mature Christian, whose faith isn't eroding, who takes marriage seriously."

Edited September 30, 2019 by Billiards Ball

[Repose]

That's a bit difficult to answer, as the word "spouse" is used in the Bible. If a married person comes to Christ during that marriage, then there were Paul's instructions in his letters. It seems that the disagreement in this thread is if a Christian can take on an unbelieving spouse, and it either be a sin or very risky.

Regardless of whether or not it is sinful to take on an unbelieving spouse, I would look at it like a bear trap. Sure, you aren't going to die, but are you silly enough to try and put your hand in it? If the spouse is going to be a detriment and a risk in many ways, do you really think it wise to just go ahead and hop into it anyway because "my feelings"? That is distictly foolish and unwise. King Solomon had great wisdom, but even with that wisdom, he sets the example of why one does not so recklessly wed unbelievers.

In this scenario, despite the lack of a marriage beforehand, I would simply advise the believer to follow Paul's instructions regarding an unbelieving spouse. Dating wasn't really a custom at the time, and so whilst they are not married, it's likely the closest one can get as far as scriptural guidance in this matter. I would also advise that the believer themselves deeply consider the matter and pray to God regarding it, lest feelings blind them.

[Ruth Also]

I think the judgement that Melinda senses needs addressing. I like the bear trap example.  I'd agree with it.

Unless one is born again, one can't see the kingdom of God.  That isn't just a saying - it's a fact.  We don't even know what living under God's rules mean before this.  So now you've got a couple, who are indeed coupled, with one person seeing into life something far beyond the other.  The potential for significant disharmony exists.  It's a complicated situation, and nobody wants to break up any good thing, but the greater risk is that to walk together into the future, the two have to agree, or it's just a case of a postponed divorce with the potential to mess up the lives of future kids as well.  Since that's the case, the Christian has to decide that her walk with the LORD is a disposable commodity (assuming it's the woman who became a Christian), since there is no guarantee that the man will make that choice if she is to stay in the relationship.  It's not a matter of a small formality here.  It's about a very change of nature.  And if that weren't enough, future children will be impacted by this difficulty.  For the time being, one has to admit that this is an unauthorized union, so the believer needs to be out of it.  At that point, Paul's recommendation that one avoid yoking with an unbeliever should be seriously considered.  

This isn't a matter of how nice these folks are or how they seem to get along.  It is complicated by them having joined in a union that makes it hard to see reality, but that's the nature of society.  They aren't the first to be fornicators - and neither were we.  Still, it doesn't make life work well.

If "love" between them were enough, I'd suggest that they'd be having endless conversations about the implications of this decision to follow Christ, would want to come to terms on what would work for a long-lasting relationship, and would welcome even a separation of living arrangements and a time of celibacy to know for sure what would work for the best for each other, because love wants what is best for each other as well as for ourselves.  Granted, that implies a degree of maturity that most of us didn't get until somewhere close to retirement age.  Most of us old folks would admit we didn't realize what this marriage thing would mean or would take to make a success while we were young, but then, many are divorced because we simply didn't pay attention to the things that would have made it work.  So I suggest that any judgements heard are the voice of experience.  We didn't start out to fail, but many of us failed by starting out in a similar situation and would gladly suggest a better path that sticks to the precepts that God gave us instead of thinking we were exceptions.  Just because we didn't heed His words doesn't mean that these nice folks can avoid the consequences of poor choices any better than we did.  So we stand on the side of the road and wave flags of caution - in love.  I'm sure every one of us wishes these young people the best outcome and the happiest life - I do.  -Ruth

[BeauJangles]

59 minutes ago, DustyRoad said:

No, the yoking isn't sinful, @Melinda12.

Thankfully, someone else realizes it's not a sin to marry an unbeliever. It's certainly a spiritual disadvantage, however. The spouse who is saved should have a firm faith to withstand the obvious pitfalls in taking on such a responsibility for lack of a better term. There are plenty of occasions where setting the example of Christ wins out over time, where merely witnessing falls short. Often it can be taken as nagging - somewhat of a 'buzz-kill' to the other spouse, even well meaning as it is intended.  

[Adstar]

18 hours ago, BeauJangles said:

Sooo... You're right and the gospel is of no apparent truth to you? Gotcha. 

My beliefs in regard to marriage is in alignment with scriptures.. Making a statement that my stance is not in alignment with scriptures without any scriptural support is not doing things right..

Point out where my stance is wrong and give scriptures confirming it..

[Tzephanyahu]

On 9/30/2019 at 6:54 AM, Melinda12 said:

We know what the Bible says. But where is kindness and mercy and understanding? If people support this couple, the young man too will more likely come to the Lord. Censure and criticism and bible quoting achieves nothing good for those on the receiving end! No doubt the speakers feel good and self satisfied though. 

Shalom @Melinda12

I feel your heart on this matter.  Some Christians are terrified of coming "under the law" and then in the next breathe use the words of the Messiah and Paul as law and get legalistic with it.  This is a generalised comment and not focused on anyone in particular.

Now consider this matter - Paul wrote that every believer should stay in the position they were in when Yahweh called them.  In this instance, the person was coupled up already and (presumably) in love. 

If they are truly in love and have a healthy relationship and the non-believing partner will not dissuade or deceive the believing one away from the Lord Jesus, then I don't think it would be the will of the Father to separate. 

True, the general rule and a standard is not to be unequally yoked.  But I believe this is a general instruction and rule for life, not a "do or die" ruling.  Life is complicated and relationships are partly the reason why! 

Yahweh, our Father, is dynamic, reasonable, understanding and merciful.   He doesn't seek to judge people but there are plenty of examples in Scripture where a good man seemingly violates the Torah - but in the greater context, Yahweh seems to understand the heart intention over the literal actions.   

Now, I know of a couple that were in the same situation. One believer, one non-believer - before they got married.  However, they loved each other so much and non-believer never stopped the believing partner in anything. In fact, they supported them in their faith when they needed it.  After they got married, after a few years, the non-believing partner became a believer.  Would have that happened anyway if they were not together?  I doubt it, but it's possible I suppose.  But maybe some people will not come to the Lord unless the testimony of someone very close to them is witnessed.

I'm not exactly giving advice of "go ahead! stay together!", that would be unwise.  But it would also be unwise to say "Stop! separate at once!".  Rather, I'm saying there is room for both in the appropriate situations.  

Again, if the relationship is based on genuine love, they treat each other very well and the non-believing partner will not discourage the believer - there is always hope, mercy and grace.  The believer must, of course, see how they feel lead.  But if they are living as if they are married already (living together and sleeping together) they are essentially married in Yahweh's sight already - that is, one flesh.  

Love & Shalom

[BeauJangles]

1 hour ago, Adstar said:

My beliefs in regard to marriage is in alignment with scriptures.. Making a statement that my stance is not in alignment with scriptures without any scriptural support is not doing things right..

Point out where my stance is wrong and give scriptures confirming it..

You said marrying an unbeliever was a sin, and scriptures have already been posted to the otherwise. Your turn to submit them since only opinions have been given so far. Be my guest.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Tzephanyahu said:

Shalom @Melinda12

I feel your heart on this matter.  Some Christians are terrified of coming "under the law" and then in the next breathe use the words of the Messiah and Paul as law and get legalistic with it.  This is a generalised comment and not focused on anyone in particular.

Now consider this matter - Paul wrote that every believer should stay in the position they were in when Yahweh called them.  In this instance, the person was coupled up already and (presumably) in love. 

If they are truly in love and have a healthy relationship and the non-believing partner will not dissuade or deceive the believing one away from the Lord Jesus, then I don't think it would be the will of the Father to separate. 

True, the general rule and a standard is not to be unequally yoked.  But I believe this is a general instruction and rule for life, not a "do or die" ruling.  Life is complicated and relationships are partly the reason why! 

Yahweh, our Father, is dynamic, reasonable, understanding and merciful.   He doesn't seek to judge people but there are plenty of examples in Scripture where a good man seemingly violates the Torah - but in the greater context, Yahweh seems to understand the heart intention over the literal actions.   

Now, I know of a couple that were in the same situation. One believer, one non-believer - before they got married.  However, they loved each other so much and non-believer never stopped the believing partner in anything. In fact, they supported them in their faith when they needed it.  After they got married, after a few years, the non-believing partner became a believer.  Would have that happened anyway if they were not together?  I doubt it, but it's possible I suppose.  But maybe some people will not come to the Lord unless the testimony of someone very close to them is witnessed.

I'm not exactly giving advice of "go ahead! stay together!", that would be unwise.  But it would also be unwise to say "Stop! separate at once!".  Rather, I'm saying there is room for both in the appropriate situations.  

Again, if the relationship is based on genuine love, they treat each other very well and the non-believing partner will not discourage the believer - there is always hope, mercy and grace.  The believer must, of course, see how they feel lead.  But if they are living as if they are married already (living together and sleeping together) they are essentially married in Yahweh's sight already - that is, one flesh.  

Love & Shalom

Thankyou. Your view is my view. There is scope for love, mercy and understanding. God is judge not us. He understands who we are deep down. I don't like judgmental inflexible christianity. No good can come of it. I doubt anyone comes to love Christ through fear selling and rules.