Dissension Is Not the Unforgiveable Sin

[lftc]

14 hours ago, Firm Foundation said:

1 cor. 11 was speaking of taking communion in a disrespectful manner.  Galatians 5 speaks of walking according to the flesh.  They are totally different.

Thank you, again, for discussing this in a tone of brotherhood.  I believe that Jesus, the Christ, is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father in any other way than through him.  I am confident that you also believe that. 

I will look at 1 Cor 11 for understanding, and then discuss Galatians, as the context of Galatians is pertinent to the list Paul gave regardless of the relationship to the 1 Cor 11 passage.

I can see where it is reasonable to assume that the factions mentioned in 1 Cor 11 are related only to the Lord's supper.  In can be implied.  Although it can also be read differently, in that they are wider factions than just over who is getting drunk at the Lord's Supper. 

Here is the text, with all the publisher inserted text divisions and headings removed:

... Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered? Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God. But in the following instructions I do not commend you, because when you come together it is not for the better but for the worse. For, in the first place, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you. And I believe it in part, for there must be factions among you in order that those who are genuine among you may be recognized. When you come together, it is not the Lord's supper that you eat. For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal. One goes hungry, another gets drunk. What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God and humiliate those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not. ...

You can see that where one decides that Paul stops talking about womens hair and starts talking about divisions can affect the decision one must make about the nature of the factions.  If the phrase "If anyone is inclined to be contentious" is related to hair, then more credence can be assigned to the view that the factions are related to the Lord's supper.

However, if the "contentious" phrase is related to the following discussion about coming together, it becomes more clear that the factions that exist when " coming together as a church" are the first issue to be adressed while the second is selfishness shown while eating the Lord's supper.

But as I mentioned already, I can see where some would view the factions as being those who want to eat and drink before others get there vs those who come later and have nothing to eat.  I must note that one of the factions in the Lord's supper as described by Paul is drunk.  Which is also in the Galatians list. 

Galatians is about Paul telling the Galatians to avoid the faction of the Hebrew Law Christians and hold on to the Gospel he taught them.  The letter is about those factions.  I personally do not consider that Paul accidently described the Galatians situation in his list of WORKS of the flesh.  He purposely includes factions in the list in his letter about factions.  He differentiates between those who LIVE BY the works of the flesh, vs those who LIVE BY the Spirit.  Because the answer lies there.

Just my opinion.  I am nothing, quite literally.  For those who choose belief based on the character of the one proposing a belief, you'd best avoid me.  My character is not worth it.  Not quite as bad as Solomon, but way too bad.

 

 

[Firm Foundation]

The message is that we are born again believers, and as such, we are dead to sin.  We don't live sinful lives like we did, and those who do live after the flesh will not make it to heaven.  

The problem comes in when you have Christians living after the flesh.  They never learned that Jesus came to set us free from sin's bondage.  As such, they trust it is impossible to stop sinning, so they don't try.  If you keep living in open sin, you won't inherit the kingdom of God.

The testimony of people who believe that is that they sin all the time.  Is Jesus really so weak, he can't break the chains of sin in the life of a Christian?  I understand those things people do without thinking, but nobody ever has to choose to sin.

[lftc]

13 minutes ago, Firm Foundation said:

The message is that we are born again believers, and as such, we are dead to sin.  We don't live sinful lives like we did, and those who do live after the flesh will not make it to heaven.  

The problem comes in when you have Christians living after the flesh.  They never learned that Jesus came to set us free from sin's bondage.  As such, they trust it is impossible to stop sinning, so they don't try.  If you keep living in open sin, you won't inherit the kingdom of God.

The testimony of people who believe that is that they sin all the time.  Is Jesus really so weak, he can't break the chains of sin in the life of a Christian?  I understand those things people do without thinking, but nobody ever has to choose to sin.

Thank you, again.  It is very meaningful to me that we can have this conversation peacefully.

I certainly agree that anyone who thinks sin is OK has a significant problem.  God says sin is worthy of death.

That actually makes Paul's list in Galatians even more significant.  He goes further and says that those who LIVE BY factions WILL NOT INHERIT the kingdom of God.  While he writes a letter about his side of a faction.  And then in 1 Cor 11 he even says that factions have a benefit in exposing the those who are not genuine.

I realize that this makes a difficult subject.  I don't want to keep pushing you on it.  So allow me to say that I see the delimma this creates and understand why some groups derive the fall from salvation approach to reconcile Paul's list with Jesus paid for all sins.  I understand. Although I see a different approach.

God bless you, as you walk the road of sin, repentence, forgiveness and salvation.

I am very confident in our Lord's ability to save us, as are you.

God have mercy.