Revelation Man Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,072 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 553 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2019 (edited) 17 hours ago, wingnut- said: Let's play a little game here called, iamlamad's insistence on chronology. So why can the millennium not begin at the 7th trumpet iamlamad? Easy, because two chapters later you have this beast that enters the picture, and he is ruling for 3 1/2 years. The millennial reign is Christ's reign, with an iron scepter no less. I will take my time to explain this since its being discussed, and this is in my wheelhouse, I have explained it before on this site. The Book of Revelation is a subset of books so to speak. Its 1.) Rev. 1, Jesus Glorified. {The things which ye HAVE SEEN}. 2.) Rev. 2 and 3 the Church Age we live in now {The things which ARE}. 3.) Rev. 4 and 5 The Church seen in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are Opened/Before the DOTL starts. {The things which will be HEREAFTER}. 4.) Rev. 6, 7, 8, 9, 15&16 is the Wrath of God on Mankind or The Judgment/Plague Chapters. This covers the last 3.5 years in full. 5.) Rev. 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 17, 18, and 19 are Parenthetical Citations or EVENTS that happen during the Number 4 subset chapters in RED ABOVE. Rev. 20 is the Judgment Seat, which happens after Jesus' returns in Rev. 19, and of course Rev. 21 and 22 is the Ever-after and New Jerusalem. As you can see, Rev. 11 happens DURING the Judgment portion of events in subset 4, which cover the last 3.5 years. But it actually starts 75 days before Seals are opened at the First Seal which brings forth Gods Wrath via the Day of the Lord {DOTL}. So The Two-witnesses are called to go Forth and turn the Jews back unto God just like Malachi 4:5-6 says. They show up before the Anti-Christ becomes the Beast by Conquering Jerusalem/Mediterranean Sea Region, thus their 1260 day Clock starts 75 days before his 1260 day clock starts, thus they die on the 6th Trump and he dies at the 7th Vial. Thus both have 1260 day "Offices" so to speak, as ordained by God. So the Two-witnesses chapter starts 75 days before the First Seal is opened, they die at the 6th Trumpet, it is their prayers that bring down all the plagues on man kind, thus they pray for the 7th Trump to sound {which is ALL 7 Vials or the Last Woe} thus once their prayers have been offered, their job on earth is done, then Apollyon is allowed to kill them, the rest of the chapter is only explaining what will happen in chapter 16, Jesus returns, and destroys the wicked on earth and sets up his Kingdom. All of those chapters in SUBSET 5 are not real time events, they are Parenthetical Citations about events that happen during the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgment phase. So when you see Jesus TAKING OVER in Rev. 11, it really happens in Rev. 16. This is the STORY of the Two-witnesses as told whilst they pray down the Plagues of God, the Seal, Trumpet and Vial Judgments, and even though they die at the 6th Trumpet, the "STORY" of the Last Woe, which is the 7th Trumpet as shown in the last verse of chapter 8 where it says behold, Woe, Woe, Woe, then it says the last three Trumps will be the THREE WOES when they Sound !! So the Last Woe is the 7th Trump, and thus the Last Woe is ALL 7 Vials combined, nothing more, nothing less. So of course the 7th Trump {Last Woe/7 Vials} places Jesus in power, because he defeats Satan/Beast in Rev. 16:9. Rev. 12 likewise starts during Rev. ch. 6, at the Sixth Seal, the stars {Demons/Satan} are cast down to earth as untimely figs fall down in their season. All of the first Six Seals are opened on day 1261, with 1260 days to go until these Wonders End {Dan. 12/Second Coming}. So the First Seal is a MAN {AC} being allowed to go forth Conquering for 42 months, no waiting is needed to open the 2nd Seal, its the SAME MAN {AC} going forth to TAKE PEACE from the earth for 42 months. Likewise no waiting is needed to open the 3rd Seal, it is the AC going forth and thus his wars cause FAMINE over a 42 months period. Likewise the 4th Sea is opened at the same time also, it shows Death/Sickness that comes from this tyrants 42 month reign on earth. No waiting is needed to OPEN the 5th Seal either, it is a testament to the AC's handiwork as a murderer, he will kill 2 billion people, of which some are the Martyrs seen under the 5th Seal. So all 5 can be opened BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM, BOOM in no time, then the 6th Seal is opened at the exact same time, it casts Satan down to earth on day 1261, thus hes on earth for 1260 days, thus he can chase the Woman {Israel} for 1260 days !! Rev. 13 is the Beast arising out of the Sea of Gentiles. Hes a Beast over the Mediterranean Sea Region/Israel. This happens in Rev. 6 and lasts 42 months. Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter, it covers 7 years also. Rev. 17 is the Harlot {All False Religion} being killed off. Islam is destroyed along with Buddhism, Hinduism, Witchcraft and all Religions besides Beast Worship. This MAN DEMANDS to be Worshiped as the ONLY GOD or else !! This starts in Rev. 6 no doubt, as soon says the Beast comes to Power hes no doubt going to demand to be Worshiped as god, thus the Kings kill off all Religions at the very beginning. Rev. 18 also starts in Rev. ch. 6, Babylon = the Whole World being HIT by the Seal, Trump and Vial Plagues over a 42 Month period of time. I verse 2 we see Satan is cast to earth and Apollyon is released from the pit in that the verse says Babylon {WORLD} has become a habitation of devils. In verse 4 we see God calling Israel {144,000} to come out of her {WORLD} so that she does not partake in her sins nor her Punishment, so they Flee to Petra. Verse 8 says her plagues come in ONE DAY {Day of the Lord which lasts 42 months}. Verse 9 speaks of the Kings crying and lamenting her demise, the same Kings killed off and hated the Harlot {HINT, they are two-different Entities}. Verse 10 says her {Babylons/Worlds} Judgment comes in ONE HOUR, and we know that means 42 months because we see the Kings in Rev. 17:12 rule ONE HOUR {42 Months} with the Beast. So Babylon = THE WHOLE WORLD. Rev. 19 like Rev. 14 covers the full 7 year period of the 70th week. The Church us seen in Heaven before the Seals are opened in Rev. 4 and 5 and AFTER the Seals are opened in Rev. 7:9-16. We marry the Lamb {Rev. 19} then return with Jesus on White Horses {As Conquerors not on real White Horses} where Jesus defeats the Beast/Satan by SPEAKING VICTORY {Without hands}. The Marriage Supper is Armageddon. Rev. 20 does not happen during the Seal, Trumpet and Vial chapters, obviously it follows afterwards. Then comes the ever-after and New Jerusalem in chapters 21 and 22. So anyone that says Rev. 12 and 13 happen after Rev. 11 and before Rev. 16, thats just not the case, Rev. 11, 12, 13, 17 and 18 all start at the same time save for Rev. 11 starting 75 days earlier than the others via the two-witnesses having to show up BEFORE the AC becomes the Beast thus they will also DIE before the Beast dies. The book of Revelation is nowhere near in Chronological Order. Edited November 2, 2019 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted November 2, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Revelation Man said: The book of Revelation is nowhere near in Chronological Order. Agreed, now you just need to convince iamlamad of that. I was being sarcastic about it, I am aware it is not chronological, but thanks for your input. By the way, how are you doing? You haven't said anything more about your test results and I was just curious, praying for you brother, stay strong. God bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 347 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,474 Content Per Day: 2.70 Reputation: 5,380 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2019 4 hours ago, Revelation Man said: The book of Revelation is nowhere near in Chronological Order May I ask this? Do you think Revelation chapters 7, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 are parenthetical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2019 6 hours ago, iamlamad said: OF COURSE He can "reign" but not be in His 1000 year reign. He has been reigning over His church for nearly 2000 years now. At the 7th trumpet the kingdoms of the world are given to Him and he begins to reign right then, but Satan is not yet locked up, so His 1000 year reign has not yet started. I think you are making too much of this. There are no problems in Scripture. Of course there are problems for you, that's why what you say above makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You are talking in circles, He has been reigning for 2000 years as you say, so why does His reign begin at the 7th trumpet if nothing has changed? 5 hours ago, iamlamad said: Yes, of course I can: at the 7th trumpet He is reigning but from HEAVEN. You cannot find a scripture that shows Him on earth anytime during the 70th week. Like I said above, no need for that to be said at the 7th trumpet if nothing has changed. I am not sure there is a time during the 70th week that He is on earth because what scripture seems to suggest is that once He sets down on the Mt. of Olives the day of the Lord has begun, not sure exactly when that switch occurs though. Maybe it happens when He re-enters Jerusalem in sync with His triumphal entry the first time. Let me ask you this, do you think Armageddon is during the 70th week, or after? 5 hours ago, iamlamad said: If you insist that the 1000 years begins when Satan is locked up, I am not going to argue: that seems like a good place to start. But HIS 1000 years does not have to match our 1000 years. I already posted you the scripture from John that says it does, and it also says that the two do align with each other. Revelation 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. So there you have it, what John wrote, any questions? 5 hours ago, iamlamad said: Note carefully, I leave the 7th trumpet right where John put it: at the midpoint of the week. You have yourself twisted into such a bundle of spaghetti in your eschatology, you don't appear to know what you believe, or you're just not willing to accept it yet. Give it some time, it goes down smooth, but let me give you an example of your own confusion. This is a direct quote from you, in response to sister, on your thread titled "What to make of the rest of the beasts and a season in time", posted on Oct. 15th, page 7, about halfway down. This is the link, but the comments are found below. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/242704-what-to-make-of-the-rest-of-the-beasts-and-a-season-and-a-time/?do=findComment&comment=3072318 They may well be blamed for each of the vials of God's wrath. It is my belief that these two will be Enoch and Elijah, the two men who never died. They are Old Testament saints, and will raise from the dead with ALL the Old Testament saints - at the 7th vial that ends the week. So my friend, this is where that event shows up in Revelation. Revelation 11:10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. 11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. Chapter 11, several verses before we read about the events of the 7th trumpet. Your own beliefs clash with each other because of this faulty clinging to a chronology that doesn't exist. At some point you are going to have to start reconciling your own theory against itself, because even you don't agree with yourself. Revelation 10:7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. You really need to think about the above verse and what it means. The mystery of God is not about some lease agreement you dreamed up in your head, it was what God announced to His servants and the prophets. Maybe go back to the OT prophets and figure out what was announced to them, might be a good place to start. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Light Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 5 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,078 Content Per Day: 1.11 Reputation: 201 Days Won: 0 Joined: 03/17/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2019 On 11/1/2019 at 6:44 AM, Revelation Man said: Quote the 144,000 !! That IS a metaphor for All Israel. 12 x 12,000 = All Israel. The 144,000 is not a metaphor for all of Israel. The 144,000 is a specific number and First Fruits. You of all people should understand what first fruits are. Therefore they CANNOT BE all of Israel. Quote And there are no lost tribes, they are all just Jews, God showed me that a while back. When the Assyrians took the 10 tribes away, you had some men of Judea who loved their evil ways, and thus they were in the Northern Kingdoms and got carried away with them, you had many righteous men of God who despised the Wickedness and thus lived in Judea/Jerusalem, almost all of the Levite's did, all of the tribes had people living in Jerusalem when those tribes were taken away, and just like Abraham populated/multiplied from one man, these men from those tribes living in Jerusalem eventually just became Jews and thus Ezekiel's TWO STICKS shall become ONE eventually came to pass. Those tribes are represented in Israel today, all of them are. There never was any lost tribes. God just punished those wicked men of North Israel. Totally wrong conclusion. You need to study Biblical history. Quote The AoD is set up in the middle of the week. At the 1290, which is 30 days before the 1260. My timing on these events are tried and true brother. Doesn't agree with scripture. The daily sacrifice is taken away on day 1185. The abomination of desolation occurs 1290 days later, which is day 2475. That's towards the end of the week, not the middle. Dan 12 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Quote There is, Rev. 14 is THE HARVEST Chapter, it covers the full 7 years, the 144,000 {fleeing Jews} are shown with Jesus on Mt. Zion, the Wheat grow with the Wicked Tares until the very end, thus they are BOUND in the grave to be BURNED in 1000 years. But in the midst of this chapter we get a poetic soliloquy so to speak, we see Jesus Rapture the Church up to Heaven, bit it actually happened before either one of these events shown. So we indeed get various Harvests. You probably should understand the Rev 14 harvest. We see people being cast into the wrath of God. It does cover the 7 years, then the wrath of God begins as there are people being tossed into the wrath of God. How is that possible? Quote Say a prayer for me brother, I am having my Prostrate taken out on the 19th God willing. Our Father, remove the spirit of fear from this faithful brother as he faces this medical challenge. Grant him a calm peacefulness that passes all understanding. Guide the hands that perform the operation and let there be quick healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,072 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 553 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, wingnut- said: Agreed, now you just need to convince iamlamad of that. I was being sarcastic about it, I am aware it is not chronological, but thanks for your input. By the way, how are you doing? You haven't said anything more about your test results and I was just curious, praying for you brother, stay strong. God bless I have to have my prostrate taken out the 19th, I would rather do that than a bunch of radiation. It had not spread anywhere else so that seemed the best option to me at age 55. Thanks for the prayers brother. Yea, Iamlamad has the Seals being opened 2000 years ago, everything else has to be off kilter from that perspective. I just picked out a short, to the point post to reply to, and since Rev. 11 seems to end it all, I can from that perspective show why Rev. 11 is like it is, its just the Two-witnesses chapter so to speak. God Bless... Edited November 3, 2019 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2019 6 minutes ago, Revelation Man said: I have to have my prostrate taken out the 19th, I would rather do that than a bunch of radiation. It had not spread anywhere else so that seemed the best option to me at age 55. Thanks for the prayers brother. Yea, Iamlamad has the Seals being opened 2000 years ago, everything else has to be off kilter from that perspective. I just picked out a short, to the point post to reply to, and since Rev. 11 seems to end it all, I can from that perspective show why Rev. 11 is like it is, its just the Two-witnesses chapter so to speak. God Bless... Ok, will keep you in my prayers through all of this brother. God bless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revelation Man Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 9 Topic Count: 12 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 4,072 Content Per Day: 1.41 Reputation: 553 Days Won: 0 Joined: 06/01/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dennis1209 said: May I ask this? Do you think Revelation chapters 7, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14 are parenthetical? All but 7 are, 10 is a Mysterious FLASH FORWARD to the end. Its the only chapter I still haven't got a bow tied around it as a present from God saying, here is the answer. It seems to be a flash forward to the very end, when the last trump blows time [as we know it] will be no more. God takes over. But I agree, Rev. 7 would seem like a Parenthetical Citation also, until one sees what its really saying. The Seals are opened, all except the 7th Seal which is all 7 Trumps. What do the 7 Trumps do ? They Hurt the Earth, Sea and Trees. What does God say in the first three verses ? Rev. 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. 2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, 3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. So God orders the angels to HOLD UP on hurting the Earth, Sea and the trees until the 144,000 are Sealed {Protected}. Them needing protection shows they are still human being on earth. Here they are in Rev. 7, IN BETWEEN WHAT ? The Seals being opened that Release the Anti-Christ to go forth Conquering and killing and Seals 1-5 with Seal number 5 the testimony of his handiwork. Seal 6 is God announcing his coming WRATH then these 144,000 need PROTECTION all of the sudden, WHO ARE THEY ? They are the Jews who Jesus commanded to Flee Judea when they saw the AoD. So God orders the Trumpet Judgments to be held up, we can go look at them, they hurt the Earth, Sea and the Trees !! They burn 1/3 of the Trees, they turn 1/3 the Sea to blood and kill 1/3 of the Sea creatures/fish/shrimp etc. etc. Also, 1/3 of the drinking waters are poisoned and the sun gives gives not its full light. So the Trumps hurt the Sun, Moon and the Trees. So God is telling the Angels to hold up the Trumpet Judgments until the 144,000 are SEALED/Protected by God, and where do they flee unto ? The Petra/Bozrah area where God Protects the Woman {Israel} for 1260 days. The 144,000 is a figurative number, its just showing us that ALL Israel is saved, there are 12 {fullness number} X 12,000 so that stands for all Israel, figuratively speaking, they are protected when they get to the Petra area, then God allows the Trumpet Judgments to fall on this evil world. In Rev. 18 we see God asks these 144,000 {Fleeing Jews} to come out of Babylon {World}. Rev. 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. So the 144,000 is just Israel {the 1/3 who repented according to Zechariah 13:8-9} fleeing, whom God protects for 1260 days in Petra. Then we see in Rev. 7:9-16 a REAL TIME EVENT. I used to mistake these people as the Martyrs seen under the Altar at the 5th Seal because they are said to have come out of the Great Tribulation. But in the 5th Seal we are SPECIFICALLY TOLD that these Martyrs have to wait until their fellow brothers are killed in like manner as they were and in Rev. 20:4 we are told these that are Judged and Rule with Christ SPECIFICALLY overcame the Beast via their deaths, they are only Judged after Jesus returns. So I had a HUGE CONFLICT, what gives ? Who can these possibly be I thought !! Then it hit me. We have CONTINUAL TRIBULATION Jesus said, so look at it like this. We have the Church Age Tribulation followed by the 70th week Tribulation and in that week we have the 3.5 years of Gods Wrath and the troubles that come with them. So indeed the Greatest Ever Troubles are in the 3.5 year period of Gods Wrath, but the Church Age Tribulation period is a GREATER period of time than the 70th week tribulation by at least 2000 years to, one is 2000 years and the other is obviously just 7 years. So those seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9-16 are the same ones seen in Rev. 4 and 5 that were in Heaven before the Seals were opened. John was told they came out of the Great Tribulation {2000 year Church Age Period is GREATER than the 70th week 7 year period}. So in essence, Rev. 7 is a part of the Judgment Chapters, even though it has no Judgments in it, it is showing in REAL TIME the Jews Fleeing Israel unto Petra and the Church in Heaven AFTER the Seals have been opened but BEFORE the trumpet Judgments start up. So in essence, your thought was correct, Rev. 7 would not seem to fit, but once we figure out who the 144,000 are, the 12 x 12,000 who are the 1/3 who Repent via Zechariah 13, only then we can see it is a part of the Judgment chapter timeline. Edited November 3, 2019 by Revelation Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, wingnut- said: Of course there are problems for you, that's why what you say above makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You are talking in circles, He has been reigning for 2000 years as you say, so why does His reign begin at the 7th trumpet if nothing has changed? ove, no need for that to be said at the 7th trumpet if nothing has changed. I am not sure there is a time during the 70th week that He is on earth because what scripture seems to suggest is that once He sets down on the Mt. of Olives the day of the Lord has begun, not sure exactly when that switch occurs though. Maybe it happens when He re-enters Jerusalem in sync with His triumphal entry the first time. Let me ask you this, do you think Armageddon is during the 70th week, or after? n that says it does, and it also says that the two do align with each other. Revelation 20 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding in his hand the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain. 2 And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years, 3 and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended. After that he must be released for a little while. 4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. So there you have it, what John wrote, any questions? You have yourself twisted into such a bundle of spaghetti in your eschatology, you don't appear to know what you believe, or you're just not willing to accept it yet. Give it some time, it goes down smooth, but let me give you an example of your own confusion. This is a direct quote from you, in response to sister, on your thread titled "What to make of the rest of the beasts and a season in time", posted on Oct. 15th, page 7, about halfway down. This is the link, but the comments are found below. https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/242704-what-to-make-of-the-rest-of-the-beasts-and-a-season-and-a-time/?do=findComment&comment=3072318 They may well be blamed for each of the vials of God's wrath. It is my belief that these two will be Enoch and Elijah, the two men who never died. They are Old Testament saints, and will raise from the dead with ALL the Old Testament saints - at the 7th vial that ends the week. So my friend, this is where that event shows up in Revelation. Revelation 11:10 and those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and make merry and exchange presents, because these two prophets had been a torment to those who dwell on the earth. 11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood up on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here!” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies watched them. Chapter 11, several verses before we read about the events of the 7th trumpet. Your own beliefs clash with each other because of this faulty clinging to a chronology that doesn't exist. At some point you are going to have to start reconciling your own theory against itself, because even you don't agree with yourself. Revelation 10:7 but that in the days of the trumpet call to be sounded by the seventh angel, the mystery of God would be fulfilled, just as he announced to his servants the prophets. You really need to think about the above verse and what it means. The mystery of God is not about some lease agreement you dreamed up in your head, it was what God announced to His servants and the prophets. Maybe go back to the OT prophets and figure out what was announced to them, might be a good place to start. God bless Ask yourself a simple question: Has Christ been reigning over His church since Pentecost? Did you ever read that all authority was given to Him way back then? He then sent out the church with His authority. So for the church age the church has had His authority on earth. At the rapture, the church will no longer need it so He takes it back. God is not a giver - then a taker. God gave authority over this planet to Adam, but Satan usurped it, and Satan became the spiritual leader of earth - or as Paul wrote, the god of this world - or as Jesus put it, the PRINCE of this world. He has had this position since Adam sinned. God cannot legally take Satan's authority away - not yet. Adam's lease is still going. But God can have a Christian pray and that gives Him some authority in a believer's life. All this changes at the 7th trumpet. The lease given to Adam is going to expire. Suddenly Satan will be found with no legal hold to anything, and he is cast down to earth, and this planet is given back to its rightful owner: the One who created it! Jesus gets FULL authority over the kingdoms of the world. As John write, Jesus REIGNS. What is different: Before He was reigning over the church, but now He is reigning over the world: HUGE difference. However, He has His word out: The Beast will get 42 months of authority. It will be DELEGATED authority - delegated from Jesus Christ. You see then, there is a HUGE change at the 7th trumpet: His rule is expanded to the entire planet. But His word cannot be changed, so Jesus will delegate authority over the planet to the Beast for 42 months. After all, the world seems to want a planet without a god, so God will give it to them! He will turn His back, so to speak, and allow Satan to have authority. AT the end of the 42 months, the Beast and FAlse prophet are taken and cast into the lake of fire: his 42 months of reigning will be OVER. So Jesus gets His delegated authority back. AFter the judgment of the nations, Satan will be locked up. Then, as you have pointed out again and again, His 1000 year reign begins. What will be different? NO devil! No demons. The curse will be lifted. Lamb's will lay down with lions! And now Jesus will rule with a rod of Iron. And it will last for a thousand years. I know you won't believe any of this. That is fine. If you don't like the idea of a lease on earth, then perhaps you can explain to the readers why it is at the 7th trumpet - and not before - that the kingdoms of the world are taken from Satan and given to Jesus Christ. what scripture seems to suggest is that once He sets down on the Mt. of Olives the day of the Lord has begun. Why not just believe John - that the Day of the Lord starts at the 6th seal? Of course then, this is before the book can be opened to reveal the trumpet judgments. Since the 70th week does not begin until the 7th seal, then His wrath begins before the week and continues on through the ENTIRE week. Let me ask you this, do you think Armageddon is during the 70th week, or after? Of course, after, because John shows it as after. If Jesus returned on the 1260th day all could count from the abomination and know the day He is coming. But we know that cannot be. The week ends at the 7th vial in chapter 16, but Jesus does not return until after the marriage and supper, which does not start until after the 7th vial. How long will the marriage and supper last? John does not tell us - but perhaps Daniel gives us a hint: He may return on the 1290th day. But know one knows for sure. The marriage and supper may take 30 days. Yes, OF COURSE John wrote of the 1000 years - but you have declared that HIS 1000 year reign will begin with Satan locked up. Therefore I would think EVERY mention John makes of the 1000 years will be the 1000 years starting with Satan locked up. But does this fit OUR CALENDAR? The Jews think we are in the year 57?? or something. Others, who have studied bible chronology for many years, think we are very close to the 6000 year mark now. But as I have said, God does not have to follow OUR calendar. As you have said, Jesus is not going to start His 1000 year reign until Satan is locked up. I think you have convinced me of that by now. I still think the 7th trumpet will mark the end of 6000 years since Adam's sin - and that Adam's lease will end - and that is why the kingdoms are given to Jesus AT THAT TIME. But Satan will not be locked up for another 3.5 years! Therefore, the Millennial reign will not start until He IS locked up. Why does Jesus' 1000 years have to fit a calendar? The truth is, it does not. So my friend, this is where that event shows up in Revelation. Yes, I know the story of the two witnesses was written in chapter 11. Not to worry! I have said over and over on this forum that verses 11:4 through 11:13 - John's narrative on the two witnesses, are written as a parenthesis. Perhaps you have not read those posts so this is new. For chronology: 11: 1-2: the man of sin arrives in Jerusalem with his Gentile armies. (He must BE in Jerusalem to enter the temple in Jerusalem). 11:3 The two witnesses show up because he - the man of sin - just showed up. They will suddenly appear just 3.5 days before the abomination that will divide the week. So only 3.5 days of their testimony will be in the first half of the week. (11:4 -11:13 a parenthesis) 11:15: the 7th trumpet sounds in heaven marking the very moment the man of sin declares he is God: the exact midpoint of the week. 12:6 those in judea begin to flee. The two witnesses die: after 1260 days of testimony - which brings them to just 3.5 days before the end of the week. They are killed and lay dead those 3.5 days. Then the 7th vial is poured out, the week ends, and the Old Testament saints are resurrected - on "the last day" or the last 24 hours of the age. The 1260th day of the last half has come. Jesus remains in heaven. The great earthquake in chapter 11 where John tells us they are raised - that is the very same earthquake as the 7th vial earthquake. See? The entire problem solved by parenthesis. WHY do I insist on a parenthesis here? Simple: it is the only way John's narrative makes sense. I know the witnesses will not be testifying in the first half of the week, as so many think. God will have 144,000 witnesses then. No, He will need the two witnesses when He pours out the vials of His wrath. Next, all the other countdowns to the end are in the second half: it just makes sense this 1260 days is also in the second half. Next, when Jesus was teaching me, He said, "every time I mentioned and event that would start at the midpoint and go to the end of the week, I always included the 3 1/2 year period of time." That told me that EVERY mention of the 3.5 years is for the last half of the week. because even you don't agree with yourself. No, I certainly agree in every point. But you don't understand it yet. it may appear at first I disagree with myself, but I really don't. Maybe go back to the OT prophets and figure out what was announced to them, might be a good place to start. Why not look at the 7th trumpet and see what really happens? Look: if you have knowledge of what this mystery is, by all means TELL US. Until then, I will believe it is God getting His planet back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamlamad Posted November 3, 2019 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 23 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 8,272 Content Per Day: 2.08 Reputation: 689 Days Won: 4 Joined: 06/09/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Revelation Man said: I have to have my prostrate taken out the 19th, I would rather do that than a bunch of radiation. It had not spread anywhere else so that seemed the best option to me at age 55. Thanks for the prayers brother. Yea, Iamlamad has the Seals being opened 2000 years ago, everything else has to be off kilter from that perspective. I just picked out a short, to the point post to reply to, and since Rev. 11 seems to end it all, I can from that perspective show why Rev. 11 is like it is, its just the Two-witnesses chapter so to speak. God Bless... May God guide the doctors during this operation! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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