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Mystery of Heavenly Rewards

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On 11/27/2019 at 1:41 AM, missmuffet said:

The fact that we will be living in mansions in heaven it not clear in the Bible. The fact that our home will be with Christ in heaven should be all that we will hope for. 

John 14:2 (KJV) In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

The word "mansions" most agree better translated to "rooms". The New Jerusalem coming to the new Earth will be our eternal homes. Here's my question:

There will be no more sorrow, pain, disease nor death, every tear will be wiped away. We will be in constant worship and fellowship with the Lord, and fellowship with other believers of all time. We will have perfect glorified bodies similar to Christ's. I suspect we will have no need of sleep or rest.

Why will we have a room [mansion]? Sleep, privacy, to just get away???

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20 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi again Sister.

And where the Lord Jesus will rule and reign from, with His Body, is from the highest realm, the third heaven.

Hi marilyn

The only scripture that speaks about the third heaven is here;

2 Corinthians 12:2   I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

  2 Corinthians 12:3   And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

  2 Corinthians 12:4   How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

  2 Corinthians 12:5   Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

  2 Corinthians 12:6   For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.

  2 Corinthians 12:7   And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.


 These scriptures are given to catch what Paul is really saying in the spirit,.... if you look at it carefully , what he is showing us is that Paul, himself, was that man who was taken up to the third heaven (called paradise), and given a vision (a revelation) that he was not allowed to utter (reveal).

The reason why he did not reveal directly that the man taken up was him, is because he did not want to be glorified as the only apostle who received "the abundance of the revelations", because all were shown, but not all chosen to "reveal" what he saw.

If there is a third heaven, there must be a first, second, and possibly more levels.  Where does it say that the third heaven is the highest?  Why would we just presume that it stops there? 

Regardless of what I've said, the only place that mentions the third heaven in the Canon is here.  It says nothing about Christ and his saints ruling from up there.  The message Paul gave was a subtle one referring to the fact that he was taken there to paradise, whether in spirit alone, or with his body, he didn't know - but that he was shown things he could not utter, because he didn't want men to glorify him more than the other apostles. He knew not to reveal what he saw in that vision.    That's the crux of the story anyway, and if you read further down, Paul got an ailment, to make him humble and he realised that God would not rid him of that annoyance just because he received the vision.

And I don't see it as proof for your claim that Christ will rule in heaven with his saints just because Paul was taken to the third heaven and given a vision.  Paradise is the heavenly kingdom of God on earth.  It started in a garden with two people. Then it became a city.  At the end it will cover the earth.   It doesn't mean it's his throne room, but is of his realm.

 

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As to that scripture in Rev. 5: 10 the word is `epi` the earth, meaning over or on. Thus we need more scriptures to show which.

Revelation 5:10   And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Is says "on" the earth.  Not over.  He gave us the location of where the saints will be.  Why not just simply believe what it says? 

 

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Rev. 3: 9 is pre-trib, and pre-millennium.

Revelation 3:9   Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

How so?

Do you mean because they will just suddenly disappear in a rapture?  How do you fall at someone's feet and worship them if they are not here?

 

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Isaiah 30: 20 is a prophecy to Israel. The Body of Christ was not known or revealed before the Apostle Paul was given a revelation of God`s purposes for it. 

 Isaiah 30:20   And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:

Israel do not currently accept the Body of Christ's teachers.  Christ teachers are the Apostles.  The new testament to them is a made up story, and Christ's elect are nothing to them.   This is speaking about the change when Christ returns.  The chapter compares the rebellion to the mercy.  Now, compared to what's to come.  He is speaking to Israel as a people and a nation, not to individuals.


Isaiah 30:26   Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
 

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2 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi marilyn

The only scripture that speaks about the third heaven is here;

2 Corinthians 12:2   I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

  

Hi Sister,

3realms.jpg.96bbd7a07d9576b079403542a5ec3fc7.jpg

 

Here is a diagram of the three realms. Now when God speaks of rain, does He have to say it is in the first heaven, the atmospheric heaven, for us to understand what He means? Similarly when God is speaking of the sun, moon and stars, does He have to say, the second heaven, the Universe, for us to understand where He is talking about? Then when God speaks of the angelic realm, does He have to say the third heaven, the angelic realm, for us to understand it is not in the atmosphere, nor the Universe but in a realm beyond, the third heaven.

We all know the different realms and we can count, 1,2,3, so it is understood which realm God is referring to, in all of His great kingdom, without God having to always number them. 

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2 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

And I don't see it as proof for your claim that Christ will rule in heaven with his saints just because Paul was taken to the third heaven and given a vision.  Paradise is the heavenly kingdom of God on earth.  It started in a garden with two people. Then it became a city.  At the end it will cover the earth.   It doesn't mean it's his throne room, but is of his realm.

 

Revelation 5:10   And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Is says "on" the earth.  Not over.  He gave us the location of where the saints will be.  Why not just simply believe what it says? 

 

Hi Sister,

IN HEAVEN

Our inheritance, our hope, our place, our citizenship, all of which are IN HEAVEN.

 `...to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you.` (1 Peter 1: 4 )

` ...because of the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, of which you heard before in the word of truth..`(Col. 1: 5)

` ...and raised us up together and made to sit in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.`(Eph. 2: 6)

` For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly await for the saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.` (Phil. 3: 20)

 

Thus Rev. 5: 10 is NOT on, but OVER the earth.

 

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3 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

 

 

Revelation 3:9   Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

How so?

Do you mean because they will just suddenly disappear in a rapture?  How do you fall at someone's feet and worship them if they are not here?

 

 
 

Hi Sister,

Notice I said pre-trb,. Thus those people who were in error will come and give homage to those who speak the truth.

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3 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

 Isaiah 30:20   And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers:

Israel do not currently accept the Body of Christ's teachers.  Christ teachers are the Apostles.  The new testament to them is a made up story, and Christ's elect are nothing to them.   This is speaking about the change when Christ returns.  The chapter compares the rebellion to the mercy.  Now, compared to what's to come.  He is speaking to Israel as a people and a nation, not to individuals.


Isaiah 30:26   Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.
 

Hi Sister,

That scripture written to Israel concerns them in the Millennium.

`And they (priests) shall TEACH my people (Israel) the difference between the holy and unholy...` (Ez. 44: 23)

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4 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

3realms.jpg.96bbd7a07d9576b079403542a5ec3fc7.jpg

 

Here is a diagram of the three realms. Now when God speaks of rain, does He have to say it is in the first heaven, the atmospheric heaven, for us to understand what He means? Similarly when God is speaking of the sun, moon and stars, does He have to say, the second heaven, the Universe, for us to understand where He is talking about? Then when God speaks of the angelic realm, does He have to say the third heaven, the angelic realm, for us to understand it is not in the atmosphere, nor the Universe but in a realm beyond, the third heaven.

We all know the different realms and we can count, 1,2,3, so it is understood which realm God is referring to, in all of His great kingdom, without God having to always number them. 

Hi Marilyn

2 Corinthians 12:4   How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

I get how you can see it, but it's only speculation.  One thing we know for sure is that this third heaven is called "paradise".

 

So lets follow the trail of paradise;

 Luke 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus died that day.  He had not yet been to see the Father.  We know this for sure, because when he rose three days later - he said this to Mary;

 John 20:17   Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Seeing as Jesus knew he was going to the grave "that day", and promising the thief whom he forgave that he would be with him in the same place (paradise), that same day,.....doesn't this show us something?

Paradise is a holding bay for dead souls!  Jesus went there too!  If your soul is placed in paradise when you die, you will return from the grave at the appointed time.

And if Jesus had not ascended to his Father that morning on the day he was risen, then the third heaven (paradise) cannot be where God's throne is. 

Paradise is lower than heaven. It's beneath heaven.  It's a higher realm yes,...and it's a spiritual place, but it is not where God abides or else Jesus would not have said what he said. 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

2 Corinthians 12:4   How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

I get how you can see it, but it's only speculation.  One thing we know for sure is that this third heaven is called "paradise".

 

So lets follow the trail of paradise;

 Luke 23:43   And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Jesus died that day.  He had not yet been to see the Father.  We know this for sure, because when he rose three days later - he said this to Mary;

 John 20:17   Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Seeing as Jesus knew he was going to the grave "that day", and promising the thief whom he forgave that he would be with him in the same place (paradise), that same day,.....doesn't this show us something?

Paradise is a holding bay for dead souls!  Jesus went there too!  If your soul is placed in paradise when you die, you will return from the grave at the appointed time.

And if Jesus had not ascended to his Father that morning on the day he was risen, then the third heaven (paradise) cannot be where God's throne is. 

Paradise is lower than heaven. It's beneath heaven.  It's a higher realm yes,...and it's a spiritual place, but it is not where God abides or else Jesus would not have said what he said. 

 

 

Hi Sister,

I see your thinking. Yes the Lord went to Paradise/Abraham`s bosom. However remember Lazarus & the rich man. The rich man was NOT in the same place as Lazarus. The Lord took the saints in that `holding area,` and took them to the General Assembly.

`..you have come to the General Assembly and the Church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God, the judge of all, to THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, to Jesus...`  (Heb. 12: 23)

That is now `Paradise.` And it is where God the Father and Jesus are - the third heaven.  

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2 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Sister,

I see your thinking. Yes the Lord went to Paradise/Abraham`s bosom. However remember Lazarus & the rich man. The rich man was NOT in the same place as Lazarus. The Lord took the saints in that `holding area,` and took them to the General Assembly.

`..you have come to the General Assembly and the Church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God, the judge of all, to THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, to Jesus...`  (Heb. 12: 23)

That is now `Paradise.` And it is where God the Father and Jesus are - the third heaven.  

Hi Marilyn

The story of Abraham's bosom is just a parable, an example written as a story to illustrate that when we die, it is already determined where our souls will be stored.  After death, there can be no repentance.  It must be done whilst we are alive.  We cannot cross over from damnation to salvation in the grave or the other way around.  That's the point of the story and Jesus used Abraham, Lazarus, the rich man and the poor man as his main characters.

Test everything;

Hebrews 12:22   But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
 

Hebrews 12:23   To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

Hebrews 12:24   And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Hebrews 12:25   See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

 

We can go all over the scriptures, to many places, but before I answered you yesterday, I prayed and asked the Father to bring to my rememberance all the words that were spoken in the holy scriptures for our instruction, and to show me proof without a doubt that the third heaven, which Paul told us is called "paradise" is not the where God's throne is.

What I showed you, is what the spirit revealed to me, and praise the Lord, my answer was not rehearsed, but given straight from the Lord and I saw that scripture with new eyes regarding paradise and the third heaven.

So for the love of the truth, and not for the love of our doctrine, the spirit (not me), showed us that when Jesus died, he was in paradise for three days.  On the morning of his resurrection he had not yet ascended to the Father, (Jesus own words), which shows us that when he was in paradise for three days, their was no reunion, for he was not risen yet, therefore paradise is not the highest heaven where God's throne is, but a place for the dead souls who are to be reserved for the resurrection.

After Jesus saw Mary, he obviously ascended to the Father, because that same evening, he met with his apostles and Thomas touched him. 

So Luke 23:43 and John 20:17 hold the key to this mystery, because the truth is in the word, and that's why everything that was written was written, so that we can seek and find true doctrine.

 

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1 hour ago, Sister said:

Hi Marilyn

We can go all over the scriptures, to many places, but before I answered you yesterday, I prayed and asked the Father to bring to my rememberance all the words that were spoken in the holy scriptures for our instruction, and to show me proof without a doubt that the third heaven, which Paul told us is called "paradise" is not the where God's throne is.

 

Hi Sister,

I think you would hear from God sometimes, and I would hear from God sometimes, but that does not make our answers truth. Truth is God`s word and that is what we should be discussing. To try and back up your answer by saying you heard from God and thus this is the right answer is emotive. Do we all hear from God rightly all the time? No. It is God`s word that is truth not our thoughts and imaginations and opinions. So let`s look at God`s word otherwise we cannot have a truth seeking discussion.

Paradise - Gk. word `paradeisis` meaning a place of future happiness.

Paradise - Abraham`s bosom meaning faith in God. OT saints were kept by God till the Lord took them to the General Assembly. This is where Paul was `caught UP` to.

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