GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[BibleGuy]

17 minutes ago, Mal'ak said:

 

Not sure the point in using original languages to separate, New Testament was written in Greek while the Old Testament in Hebrew, so of course they would have different words.  Perhaps Jews of today translated the New Testament into Hebrew and used their own words, but if so then most likely they purposely used a different word so they could keep the Torah and purposely lied in their translation for their flesh pride in their heritage of the Torah.

 

Ordinance in Old Testament Lev is מִשְׁמֶרֶת which means "obligation" or "service", while in Col it is "δόγμα"  which means "a law (civil, ceremonial)".

 

Romans 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

 

Now here in Romans 13 where it gets confusing, "ordinances" here in Romans is not Dogma from Col, but "διαταγή/diatagē" which comes from "διατάσσω/diatassō" which means "appoint, command".  The New Testament uses the word ordinances in place of commandments and literal ordinances interchangeably, so unless you look up each word in the original Greek you won't know what the Word of God is trying to say. As we can see from Lev and Col, ordinances were a "service" and "ceremonial law", which is why we are told "Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;".  All the ceremonial laws of waiting 3 days after touching a dead body to go to the Temple, is no longer needed.

 

 

 

 

Matthew 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.

Matthew 25:27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury.

Matthew 25:28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents.

Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.

Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

You are taking things out of context, we hear from Jesus himself that we are indeed given the free gift of faith which is our "talent", but if we do not return our faith with "usury" to Jesus he will take our faith away.  Those that have not proven their faith during this life, Jesus will "cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness".  I find it odd that all these Christians can quote scripture that can point out their beliefs, but some how always forget or ignore every other scripture that shows the context. As Jesus said when satan tried to use scripture out of context to deceive him, "Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." So either Jesus is a liar when he says you need to return "usury" of your faith to him or you will be "cast...into outer darkness", or you are just not living by the entire Word of God but cherry picking to fit your beliefs.  Now if you wish to call Jesus a liar so you can continue in your traditions of man, you are welcome too, you have free will.

 

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

Matthew 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

 

Here again the way to Heaven by Jesus himself, "if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments". Then when the man said he keeps them, Jesus added "if thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast...and come and follow me".  This really has two meanings at once, but it is the union between the Old Testament and New Testament, we need to obey the commandments and be righteous but we also need to give up this life and live spiritually first. As we see in "Matthew 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. 39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it."  We must not live for this life and make this our home, we must live for God first and foremost.  Those that live for this life can not enter Heaven, because they are not seeking to be Christ-like.  This goes to a more in depth version with "1 Corinthians 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: 33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife."  We are told it is better not to get married, not to have kids, because you need to focus on them and their flesh needs instead of living totally for God.  This is not required and most can not handle living as monks, but goes to the point of what Jesus was talking about, that we need to forsake all the things of this life that distract us from being more Christ-like.  If it was just "grace" and "faith" only, why would you need to forsake marriage or an active flesh life just to continue in a free gift you do not need to do anything for? Again Jesus says to keep the commandments, but welcome to call him a liar if you wish.

 

James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

In closing, as James said "faith, if it hath not works, is dead".  The works is proving our faith by following the commandments and doing works. We are told when Jesus returns and when the Father sets up the White Throne of Judgement, everyone will be rewarded "according to his works".  For the final time as we are judged by our works, you can call Jesus a liar if you wish.

DOGMA is not TORAH (go ahead and look up every last instance of "δόγμα" in the entire Bible (LXX AND NT).

AND, the TORAH is not a CERTIFICATE OF DEBT (which is the MEANING of "χειρόγραφον" in Col. 2:14).

So the "χειρόγραφον" is cancelled....NOT the Torah itself.

THAT is the point of using the Greek terms here....it exposes your confusion between Torah ordinances and "δόγμα".

That's why ORDINANCES is "κρίματά " in Eze.36:27 LXX, not "δόγμα".

And again, that's why "δόγμα" is NOT used in 1Ki.2:3 LXX.

 

After all, that same Paul upholds the NEW COVENANT (1Cor.11) which is given as TORAH! (Jer.31:33).  So Paul would OBVIOUSLY not cancel the Torah in Col. 2:14.

 

"Ordinance in Old Testament Lev is מִשְׁמֶרֶת"

No....that's CHARGE...not ORDINANCE.....

The Hebrew term for ORDINANCE (or JUDGMENT) is routinely "מִשְׁפָּט" or "חֻקָּה" or the alternative form "חֹק"....

And not δόγμα  !!!  Torah ordinances are NOT δόγμα.

A "διαταγή" is an act of ordaining.....NOT a Torah ordinance itself.  It only appears thrice throughout the entire bible (once in Ezra, NOT referring to Torah)...and twice in the NT (referring to the act of ORDAINING).

And besides, Col. 2 does not cancel "διαταγή" anyway....so it doesn't help your argument.

 

"The New Testament uses the word ordinances in place of commandments and literal ordinances interchangeably"

The NT routinely uses "νόμος" to refer to TORAH (e.g., Mt.5), and Jesus requires ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

Let's not pretend "νόμος" is canceled!  It passes directly into the NEW COVENANT (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10).

 

" As Jesus said when satan tried to use scripture out of context to deceive him, "Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God." "

Then OBEY Jesus who (in Mt.4:4) cites Dt. 8:3 referring to TORAH!  Jesus expects you to OBEY AND LIVE!  So OBEY TORAH AND LIVE!

 

"Now if you wish to call Jesus a liar so you can continue in your traditions of man, you are welcome too, you have free will."

Honestly, your "usury" argument doesn't compute.  Try it again, please.

And here's what Scripture says about liars: YOU ARE A LIAR IF YOU DO NOT KEEP JESUS' COMMANDS (1Jn.2:4).

And Jesus COMMANDS that we obey all Torah (Mt.5:19).

So please!

STOP opposing Mt. 5:19.

Let's uphold the TRUTH.

TORAH is truth (Ps.119:142).

 

" we need to obey the commandments and be righteous"

Great!  Then obey Torah and be righteous!  (Dt.6:5,25;2Ti.3:16)

 

" we must live for God first and foremost."

Awesome!  LIVE for God and obey the Torah God commands (Dt.1:3;5:27-33;etc.)

 

"Again Jesus says to keep the commandments, but welcome to call him a liar if you wish."

Then KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS!  They are found in the WRITTEN TORAH OF MOSES (1Ki.2:3).

 

"  The works is proving our faith by following the commandments and doing works. "

Great!  FOLLOW THE COMMANDS.  THEY ARE IN TORAH (1Ki.2:3).

 

 

"For the final time as we are judged by our works, you can call Jesus a liar if you wish."

Don't be silly.  Jesus is not a liar.

Jesus speaks TRUTH.

Torah is TRUTH (Ps.119:142).

We are sanctified by the word of truth (Jn.17:17).

So be sanctified by Torah truth!

OBEY!

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

36 minutes ago, Alive said:

@Mal'ak

You are confusing things. Its very common and a purely scholarly mindset often does this. Trying to work out seemingly disparate scripture and reconciling them. Rightly dividing with the help of the Holy Spirit is required to arrive at Truth.

Firstly, you have to understand that Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses, but He hints of something greater.

That something greater is what the Holy Spirit began to teach after Pentecost when He unveiled the reality of what the Father accomplished in Christ with the cross and blood.

Otherwise--there is a great deal of conflict between some of the words of Christ and what His apostles taught after Pentecost.

Recall for a moment what Luke said to Theophilus.

Acts 1:1   The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, ² until the day in which He was taken up,

Jesus continued to teach after Pentecost and He unveiled the Truth.

"Rightly dividing with the help of the Holy Spirit is required to arrive at Truth."

Yes.  And the Spirit testifies we obey TORAH (Eze.36:27;Heb.10:15-16;Is.59:20-21;Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7).

And Torah is truth (Ps.119:142).

Let's keep this in mind as we study together.

 

"Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses"

And ALL those teachings/commands of Jesus apply to YOU (Mt.28:19-20).

 

"That something greater is what the Holy Spirit began to teach after Pentecost when He unveiled the reality of what the Father accomplished in Christ with the cross and blood."

Yes!  We are cleansed by Christ's blood with zeal for Torah-obedience (Ac.21:21-24).

After all, Christ requires Torah (Mt.5:19).

The Father requires Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33).

Torah passes into the New Covenant (Jer.31:33).

So we obey!

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

36 minutes ago, Willa said:

The Holy Spirit used the law to convict me of sin, righteousness and judgement prior to my being born again when I was still a habitual sinner.  That is when it was used lawfully.  Righteousness does not come by the law but by faith in the blood of Christ and in His resurrection.  In my mind I answered you truthfully and did not ignore your question.  I felt that your questions were leading and you were trying to draw an answer out of me that would have been not using the law lawfully.  My name is written in the Lamb's book of life so I am not judged in the Great White Throne Judgement.  I have passed from death into life.  My works will be judged as to any future rewards but my sin was cast as far as the east is from the west, paid for on the cross.  I am no longer under the law in regards to righteousness.  Moreover, I walk in the Spirit so I am no longer under the Law.  

Gal 5:18  But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

 

Hi there!

Of course you are a beautiful saved sister in Christ!  Agreed!

No worries there.....

 

But either we OBEY or DISOBEY....

 

"Righteousness does not come by the law"

So do you OBEY or DISOBEY the law?

 

blessings...

 

[Mal'ak]

45 minutes ago, Alive said:

@Mal'ak

You are confusing things. Its very common and a purely scholarly mindset often does this. Trying to work out seemingly disparate scripture and reconciling them. Rightly dividing with the help of the Holy Spirit is required to arrive at Truth.

Firstly, you have to understand that Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses, but He hints of something greater.

That something greater is what the Holy Spirit began to teach after Pentecost when He unveiled the reality of what the Father accomplished in Christ with the cross and blood.

Otherwise--there is a great deal of conflict between some of the words of Christ and what His apostles taught after Pentecost.

Recall for a moment what Luke said to Theophilus.

Acts 1:1   The former account I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach, ² until the day in which He was taken up,

Jesus continued to teach after Pentecost and He unveiled the Truth.

 

The problem is you are picking scripture out of context, which is "seemingly disparate". If you let the Holy Spirit guide you, you would know he would lead you to Scripture not "feelings", as Jesus said "John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."  The false doctrine is based on the idea of the Holy Spirit giving you thoughts and opinions that pop in your head, no that is called satan.  The Holy Spirit works very specifically, he calls to "remembrance" everything Jesus taught you.  So if you don't study the Bible because you believe you are saved by Grace so the Bible is a paper weight, then the Holy Spirit will probably never talk to you, because he has nothing to call into remembrance  as you don't know anything.

 

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

 

Matthew 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

If we go by the Word of God, inspired by the real Holy Spirit, you would know the last prophet is John the Baptist.  Your concept is partly correct in "Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses, but He hints of something greater."  But it was not Jesus, that was John's job.  It was prophesized a prophet would come before the Massiah, to prepare the Jews for the one that will come that will bring something greater.  As John said himself, "Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

 

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

The reason Jesus spoke to the Jews, was because he was sent first to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" as was commanded by the Father.  But when he died he told his disciples, "teach all nations....teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you".  The Message was not changed, there was no new law or new way.  Jesus had to follow the command of the Father so went first to the Jews, but he told his disciples to teach what he had taught to the Jews and them.  Jesus did not say "a new message", he commanded them to teach what he taught them.  

[Mal'ak]

43 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

DOGMA is not TORAH (go ahead and look up every last instance of "δόγμα" in the entire Bible (LXX AND NT).

 

Exactly, the New Testament is not Torah, the Torah is just the Old Testament and only the first five books.

[BibleGuy]

4 minutes ago, Mal'ak said:

 

Exactly, the New Testament is not Torah, the Torah is just the Old Testament and only the first five books.

The New COVENANT is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

 

[BibleGuy]

20 minutes ago, Mal'ak said:

 

The problem is you are picking scripture out of context, which is "seemingly disparate". If you let the Holy Spirit guide you, you would know he would lead you to Scripture not "feelings", as Jesus said "John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."  The false doctrine is based on the idea of the Holy Spirit giving you thoughts and opinions that pop in your head, no that is called satan.  The Holy Spirit works very specifically, he calls to "remembrance" everything Jesus taught you.  So if you don't study the Bible because you believe you are saved by Grace so the Bible is a paper weight, then the Holy Spirit will probably never talk to you, because he has nothing to call into remembrance  as you don't know anything.

 

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

 

Matthew 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

If we go by the Word of God, inspired by the real Holy Spirit, you would know the last prophet is John the Baptist.  Your concept is partly correct in "Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses, but He hints of something greater."  But it was not Jesus, that was John's job.  It was prophesized a prophet would come before the Massiah, to prepare the Jews for the one that will come that will bring something greater.  As John said himself, "Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

 

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

The reason Jesus spoke to the Jews, was because he was sent first to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" as was commanded by the Father.  But when he died he told his disciples, "teach all nations....teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you".  The Message was not changed, there was no new law or new way.  Jesus had to follow the command of the Father so went first to the Jews, but he told his disciples to teach what he had taught to the Jews and them.  Jesus did not say "a new message", he commanded them to teach what he taught them.  

"The reason Jesus spoke to the Jews, was because he was sent first to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" as was commanded by the Father.  But when he died he told his disciples, "teach all nations....teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you"."

 

That's because BELIEVING GENTILES from anywhere in the world are accepted as formerly lost (but now saved!) ISRAELITE SHEEP!

That's why Paul identifies believing Gentiles as ISRAELITES (citing Hos. 1 at Rom.9:24-26).

And Israelites obey Torah (Mal.4:4).

So obey!

 

blessings...

 

[Behold]

2 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

 

REDEMPTION by the BLOOD.

OBEDIENCE to Torah required by Christ.

 

 

That's not the Gospel.

 

[Willa]

44 minutes ago, BibleGuy said:

Hi there!

Of course you are a beautiful saved sister in Christ!  Agreed!

No worries there.....

 

But either we OBEY or DISOBEY....

 

"Righteousness does not come by the law"

So do you OBEY or DISOBEY the law?

 

blessings...

 

I am not under the law so I don't worry about it.  I walk in the Spirit and I walk in love, which fulfills the law because love does no wrong to his neighbor.  The Spirit urges me to walk according to the Sermon on the Mount which goes beyond the requirements of the law.  I follow Jesus.

Do you walk in the Spirit?  Do you walk according to the Sermon on the Mount?  Do you go beyond the requirements of the law?  There is now no condemnation for those who walk according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:1  NKJV  There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:2  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:3  For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh,

Rom 8:4  that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:5  For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who liveaccording to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.

Rom 8:6  For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

[KJVOnly]

6 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

So Paul was just JOKING when he told us to KEEP GOD'S COMMANDS? (1Cor.7:19)

¹⁹ Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

Both are nothing, which are God's commands.