GALATIANS 1:8 WHO IS ACCURSED ?

[BibleGuy]

8 minutes ago, Behold said:

 

If you read Matthew 5:17, you'll discover why your verse, (Mt. 5:19) is no longer in effect regarding the Born Again.

Matthew 5:17 

= The Fulfillment of the Law

17 : “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them."

 

Now let me show you where JESUS Fulfilled the LAW, so that you can understand why you are teaching HERESY WHEN you believe and teach, that Christians have to keep the Torah = The LAW.

Look at this verse:....

John 19:28

= It Is Finished

28: After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now ACCOMPLISHED, that the TORAH might be fulfilled<<<   , said," = “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.""

Can you read?

Notice that Jesus has 'ACCOMPLISHED", WHAT HE CAME TO "FULFILL".... = THE TORAH.......all of it.  AND HE DID !!!

See and understand, that on our behalf, and because we could not keep or fulfill the TORAH (Law and Commandments), ....= God had to RESCUE US FROM IT so that we could be accepted by Him.  So, God came here, as Jesus, and fulfilled the TORAH, which ABOLISHED THE TORAH, WITH RESPECT TO KEEPING LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS........  And in their place, He has created a NEW TESTAMENT, a "BETTER COVENANT"...... It is the "law of GRACE"..

"Law, TORAH.......came by MOSES.......but GRACE AND TRUTH, (New Covenant), = CAME BY JESUS........and He fulfilled all the requirements of the TORAH, in our Place, for our sake, and now we dont have to do it.........as HE already did it for us.   = SALVATION.  + = TORAH FULFILLED <. JOHN 19:28

Once Jesus fulfilled the Law and Commandments (Torah), then it was REPLACED by the NEW COVENANT...  NEW TESTAMENT.  GRACE...   JESUS is the NEW Covenant and New Testament AND GRACE..  ITS ALL HIM.  HE'S THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE TORAH..... He wrote the NEW COVENANT in His Own BLOOD.   UNDERSTAND ???????    And with this SHED Blood of the NEW COVENANT, we the born again, are "freed from the curse of the TORAH", (The LAW and Commandments).

The 2 commandments that Jesus gave, are not to be kept............. so that you keep yourself out of Heaven if you dont keep them.

They are simply a part of the New Testament, related to Discipleship......not RELATE TO LAW .

FULFILLED does not prove ABOLISHED (otherwise Mt.5:17 is a self-contradiction!)

So FULFILLED doesn't help your case.

 

"After this, Jesus, knowing that all things were now ACCOMPLISHED, that the TORAH might be fulfilled"

FULFILLED does not mean ABOLISHED.

You haven't helped your case.

Moreover, NOT EVERYTHING IN TORAH is fulfilled!

Dt. 30:1-8 is yet FUTURE.

So again, ALL Torah is still in force (given Mt. 5:18) because Dt. 30:1-8 is NOT yet accomplished.

Try again!

 

"we could not keep or fulfill the TORAH (Law and Commandments)"

Sure we can!  Moses said it is NOT too difficult (Dt.30:11).

Luke said that all Torah CAN be obeyed (Lk.1:6).

Jesus said Mt. 5:19 is EASY! (Mt.11:30).

 

"RESCUE US FROM IT so that we could be accepted by Him. "

Wrong.  Jesus saves us from our SINS (Mt.1:21), not from the TORAH!

TORAH passes directly into the New Covenant (Jer.31:33). That's why we should OBEY!

 

"which ABOLISHED THE TORAH, WITH RESPECT TO KEEPING LAWS AND COMMANDMENTS"

WRONG.  Eph.2:15 abolishes "δόγμα", not TORAH.  The Greek word for Torah is "νόμος", not "δόγμα".

Try again!

 

" And in their place, He has created a NEW TESTAMENT, a "BETTER COVENANT"..."

OOPS!  TORAH passes directly into this NEW COVENANT (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

NEW Covenant (Jer.31:31;Heb.8:8).

SAME TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

So OBEY!

 

"It is the "law of GRACE".."

Grace is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2;3;Ex.33:13).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH!

 

""Law, TORAH.......came by MOSES.......but GRACE AND TRUTH, (New Covenant), = CAME BY JESUS"

That's only half the story!

TORAH is also TRUTH (Ps.119:142).

Grace is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2;3;Ex.33:13).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH!

Jesus requires ALL TORAH (Mt.4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (given Mt.28:19-20).

So OBEY!

 

"He fulfilled all the requirements of the TORAH, in our Place, for our sake, "

Yes.

 

"and now we dont have to do it."

NO.  Jesus obeyed Torah, so we should TOO (Lk.6:40;1Jn.2:6), or else you are a liar (1Jn.2:4).

 

"the Law and Commandments (Torah), then it was REPLACED by the NEW COVENANT..."

Don't be silly.  The SAME TORAH ("תּוֹרָה" Jer. 31:33) passes into the New Covenant.  Jeremiah did not lie.

 

"NEW TESTAMENT.  GRACE...   "

New Covenant: TORAH (Jer.31:33;Heb.8:10;10:16).

After all, GRACE and TORAH go TOGETHER (Ex.33:13).

 

 

"HE'S THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE TORAH....."

No REPLACEMENT....you just made that up.

 

"He wrote the NEW COVENANT in His Own BLOOD.   "

Lk.22:20 confirms He inaugurates the New Covenant in His Blood.  And the New Covenant is given as TORAH (Jer.31:33).  So obey!

 

 

"we the born again, are "freed from the curse of the TORAH""

Exactly!  We are free from the CURSE....not free from the Torah itself!

Torah is not a curse!

Torah is a BLESSING for those who obey (Dt.30:15-19)....and we OBEY God (Ac.5:32) who requires TORAH (Dt.1:3;5:27-33)...so OBEY TORAH!

After all, Paul APPLIES Dt. 30 to you (Rom.10:8)....so OBEY!

 

"JESUS is the NEW Covenant"

No.  Jesus is the MEDIATOR of the Covenant (Heb.8:6).

 

"HE'S THE REPLACEMENT FOR THE TORAH.."

No replacement.  You just made that up.

 

"The 2 commandments that Jesus gave, are not to be kept"

WHAT?  Of COURSE we should keep ALL Jesus' commandments (Jn.14:15), otherwise we don't love Him.  And Jesus commands ALL Torah (Mt.5:19;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (given Mt. 28:19-20).  So obey ALL Torah, to the extent possible in our present diaspora.

 

"so that you keep yourself out of Heaven if you dont keep them."

If you don't have eternal life, then you did NOT OBEY TORAH (Lk.10:25-28).  Another good reason to OBEY!

 

 

"They are simply a part of the New Testament, related to Discipleship......not RELATE TO LAW ."

Torah requires obedience to Jesus (Dt.18:15) who requires obedience to TORAH (Mt.5:19), and Jesus requires obedience to ALL HIS COMMANDS (Jn.14:15), so Jesus' commands regarding discipleship are an extension of TORAH.

Jesus IS the very substance of Torah (Col.2:17;Jn.1:14)....so OF COURSE we should obey!

 

IF you are His disciple, then you CONTINUE in His word (Jn.8:31) which requires TORAH (Mt. 4:4;5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).

So OBEY!

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

23 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

Mercy Trumps Law.

Did Jesus help Stone the Woman caught in the very act of Adultery? Do you kill your Children when they show disrespect ?

Lets pray that God extends His Mercy to ModernDay Judaizers......Lets hope “ fallen from Grace” and “ severed from the Cross” and being caught in “ Unbelief” does not mean an Eternity in Hell

NOTHING But The Blood Of Jesus for Salvation.....I THANK GOD that I am not on the wrong side of that argument.....I hope Newbies get this ingrained in their Souls....Salvation is a gift GIVEN to those that DO  NOT  WORK for it......100% Grace....

 

"Mercy Trumps Law."

OOPS!  MERCY and LAW coexist (Ex.20:6)

 

"Did Jesus help Stone the Woman caught in the very act of Adultery?"

That's not proper Torah protocol.

And, Jn. 8 is a textual variant, not even appearing in many Greek manuscripts....

 

"Do you kill your Children when they show disrespect ?"

We are still in diaspora (as in Jas.1:1)...thus much Torah is not observable while in diaspora.

Don't worry!  We WILL again obey 100% of all Torah (Dt.30:1-8).

Moses did not lie.  Dt. 30:1-8 WILL happen.....otherwise Moses is a false prophet.

 

"Lets pray that God extends His Mercy to ModernDay Judaizers......"

Agreed!  Judaizers are BAD.

Judaizers seek salvation by works without faith....and that's BAD.

So be justified by WORKS (Jas.2:24) and FAITH (Rom.5:1) TOGETHER.

Not law alone (Gal.5:4-5).

Not faith alone (Jas.2:24).

But BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

".Lets hope “ fallen from Grace” and “ severed from the Cross” and being caught in “ Unbelief” does not mean an Eternity in Hell"

That IS the danger....so do NOT fall from grace!  This means you should NOT seek justification by law WITHOUT FAITH (Gal.5:4-5).

Do NOT be severed from the Cross of Christ (who commands all Torah, Mt.5:19).

Do NOT be cause in "unbelief".

BELIEVE (Ge.15:6) and OBEY (Ge.26:5)....just like our father Abraham.

Walk by FAITH (2Cor.5:7) and in WORKS (Eph.2:10).

Be justified by WORKS (Jas.2:24) and FAITH (Rom.5:1).

BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

And DO NOT DISOBEY TORAH!  Otherwise hell is a risk (Mt. 13:41-42).

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

15 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

Sin “IS” fun......... “ For a Season”....... enjoy your season.....

Sin is TORAH-DISOBEDIENCE (Rom.3:20;7:7).

STOP SINNING (1Cor.15:34) means OBEY TORAH!

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

8 hours ago, BibleGuy said:

"Speaking only for myself......I disobey every hour of every day"

I truly doubt that, BB!

And if that were really true, then 1 Ti.5:20 requires that we PUBLICLY REBUKE YOU (1Ti.5:20).

But I REALLY doubt that you sin every hour of the day....

You're probably just being too hard on yourself.

 

And Torah requires BLAMELESSNESS/PERFECTION (Mt.5:48 citing Dt.18:13), NOT sinlessness.

Torah EXPECTS you to sin!  That's the purpose of the Torah SIN OFFERING (" חַטָּאָת "), to ATONE for the sin.

 

And you CAN obey all Torah (Dt.30:11).  Moses did not lie.

You CAN obey all Torah (Lk.1:6).  Luke did not lie.

You CAN obey all Torah (Mt.5:19).  Jesus said it's easy! (Mt.11:30). 

So OBEY!

 

"For the Blind Guides  That espouse a “ weak” and “ useless” Torah"

Rather, BLIND GUIDES DISOBEY TORAH (Mt.23:23-24), so OBEY!

 

"the Grace of God , which is the Biblical Way to get to Heaven"

And GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3;Ex.33:13;Nu.12:3).  BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH!  So OBEY!

After all, ETERNAL LIFE is promised to those who OBEY (Lk.10:25-28).

SO OBEY!

 

"and choose to try to “ justify” yourself with your Delusional Law-Keeping Fantasy"

PAUL said we who do the law will be JUSTIFIED (Rom.2:13).

Paul was NOT "delusional".

 

"the Law was given to show you that you can’t keep it"

You CAN keep the law (1Cor.7:19).  Paul was not joking!

You CAN keep the law (Dt.30:11).  Moses did not lie!

You CAN keep the law (Lk.1:6).  Luke did not lie!

 

" this “ imputed Righteousness is the ONLY Righteousness you will ever know and it is the ONLY one God cares about"

RIGHTEOUSNESS is also something we DO (1Jn.2:29;3:7) or else you are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will NOT inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

So DO TORAH-OBEDIENT RIGHTEOUSNESS (2Ti.3:16;Dt.6:5,25).

After all, Jesus APPLIES Dt. 6:5,25 to you (Mt. 22:37).

So OBEY!

 

"you need Jesus"

Jesus requires TORAH (Mt.4:4;5:19-20,48;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28).

 

"the Standard for your pitiful performance is PERFECTION......how’s “ that” working for you?"

Jesus says his yoke (Mt.5:19,48) is EASY (Mt.11:30).

So it's easy!

 

"I hope Newbies are not mislead by the subtle , Non-Biblical erroneous “ Leaven” of The Modern Judaizers here....... "

AGREED!  JUDAIZERS tell you to be saved by works without faith.   And that's REALLY bad.

That's why Paul requires TORAH (Rom.2:13) AND FAITH (Rom.5:1) for justification.

NOT law alone (Gal.5:4-5).

NOT faith alone (says Jas.2:24).

But BOTH law AND faith.

Both.

Together.

That's why Paul cites Dt. 30:14 as the very SUBSTANCE of the faith he preaches in Rom.10:8:  TORAH-OBEDIENT FAITH!

 

"Christ is the END OF THE LAW  ( Torah) for Righteousness"

Christ is the PURPOSE/GOAL/AIM of Torah.  (That's what " τέλος " means in Rom.10:4: PURPOSE/GOAL/AIM, not TERMINATION.  Same thing for "τέλος " throughout much of the rest of Scripture).

So Christ is the PURPOSE of Torah.  And Christ points us to OBEY Torah! (Mt.4:4;5:19-20,48;7:21-23;13:41-42;22:37;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28).

So OBEY!

After all, just four verses later, Paul tells us that TORAH-OBEDIENCE is the very word of faith Paul preaches (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

SO OBEY!

 

"REST in the Gospel Of Grace. "

And GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  And HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ex.33:13;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH.

So OBEY!

 

"1cor15:1-4"

RIGHT!  You are saved by the Gospel IF YOU HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREAHCES (1Cor.15:1-4) which is FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

So OBEY and so remain SAVED!

 

"Add to it with works of the Torah and you will “ fall from Grace”"

Obey Torah and prove your LOVE (1Jn.5:3;Dt.6:5,25;Jn.14:15 + Mt.5:19).

Do WORKS and be justified (Jas.2:24).

WALK IN WORKS (Eph.2:10).

And GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  And HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ex.33:13;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH.

And "fallen from grace" (Gal.5:4-5) refers to those who obey Torah WITHOUT FAITH.

So do both!

OBEY TORAH (Rom.2:13) AND have faith (Rom.5:1).

Walk by faith (2Cor.5:7) AND in works (Eph.2:10).

BOTH.

TOGETHER.

Not law alone (Gal.5:4-5).

Not faith alone (Jas.2:24).

But BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

"Read all about it in Gal. 5"

Ok!  Let's check it out....

 

1. Gal. 5:1 affirms freedom in Christ. So, Christ (who requires all Torah, Mt.5:19) gives us freedom to obey all Torah.

2. Gal. 5:1 opposes slavery (which is observance of pagan rituals, Gal.4:8-10).

3. Gal.5:2 opposes adult-male-Gentile-convert circumcision (because Torah does not require it...and because it would deny the proper role of faith in Christ).

4. Gal. 5:3 If you want to play the "obey all Torah without faith in Christ" game, then you must obey ALL Torah flawlessly, which nobody does (Rom.3:23). Bad game!

5. Gal. 5:4 We are not justified by law without Christ. Rather, we are justified by law (Rom.2:13)+faith (Rom.5:1) TOGETHER.

6. Gal. 5:5 affirms the Spirit who testifies we obey Torah (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21) "from now and forever".

7. Gal. 5:6 affirms that adult-male-Gentile-convert circumcision (or uncircumcision) is irrelevant. After all, Pro-Torah Paul knows that Torah does not require it!

8. Gal. 5:7 affirms we should obey truth. TORAH is truth (Ps.119:142).

9. Gal. 5:11 Paul OPPOSES faithless works of circumcision to attain God's favor or blessing in Christ.

10. Gal. 5:13 requires that we SERVE. And Paul models that we should serve TORAH (Rom.7:25).

11. Gal. 5:14 Love fulfills (not replaces!) Torah. After all, Lev. 19:18, in context, requires that we REBUKE sinners (Lev.19:17). So Paul says Torah should REBUKE and CORRECT and TRAIN your behavior (2Ti.3:16).

12. Gal. 5:16 affirms the Spirit who testifies we obey Torah (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27) "from now and forever" (Is.59:20-21).

13. Gal. 5:16 OPPOSES the flesh. The flesh disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7). So OBEY Torah!

14. Gal. 5:17 requires the SPIRIT against the FLESH. The flesh disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7). The Spirit helps us to STOP DISOBEYING IN THE FLESH (Rom.8:13).

15. Gal. 5:18 affirms the Spirit (who testifies we obey Torah Heb. 10:15-16;Eze.36:27;Is.59:20-21).

16. Gal. 5:18 says we are not under the law. "Under the law" refers to being "without faith", given Gal. 3:23. Thus, Paul requires Torah(Rom.2:13) AND faith (Rom.5:1), TOGETHER.

17. Gal. 5:19 confirms the flesh is bad. The flesh disobeys Torah (Rom.8:7). We should NOT be in the flesh (Rom.8:13). So we should OBEY Torah!

18. Gal. 5:22 affirms LOVE. Love requires TORAH (1Jn.5:3;Dt.6:5,25).

19. Gal. 5:22 affirms PEACE. We have great PEACE if we obey TORAH (Ps.119:165).

20. Gal. 5:22 affirms FAITH. Faith is of Torah (Mt.23:23;Ps.119:30,86,138;Dt.32:20).

21. Gal. 5:22 affirms JOY.  Our joy is in TORAH (Ps.119:162).

22. Gal. 5:22 affirms GOODNESS.  Torah is good (Rom.7:12).

23. Gal. 5:24 affirms Christ (who requires all Torah, Mt.5:19).

24. Gal. 5:24 opposes the flesh (which disobeys Torah, Rom.8:7). So STOP disobeying Torah! Obey!

25. Gal. 5:25 affirms the Spirit who testifies we obey Torah (Heb.10:15-16;Eze.36:27) "from now and forever" (Is.59:20-21).

 

Cool!  Thanks for giving us another 25 reasons to obey Torah!

These are encouraging words.

 

"Follow the Legalists and this is  what you will get"

Do NOT follow the Legalists...because Legalism is BAD.

Legalism is seeking justification/salvation by works WITHOUT FAITH. 

That's bad.

Scripture requires FAITH (Ge.15:6) AND OBEDIENCE (Ge.26:5).

FAITH (Rom.2:13) AND LAW (Jas.2:24).

FAITH AND LAW (Rom.3:27).

FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

FAITH AND LAW (Mt.23:23;Dt.32:20;Ps.119:30,86,138).

FAITHFUL OBEDIENCE (Rom.1:5).

FAITHFUL OBEDIENCE (Rom.16:26).

Faith (2Cor.5:7) and works (Eph.2:10).

BOTH.

TOGETHER.

 

"some believe these two scary descriptions pertain to those that are Lost. Why gamble?"

GREAT point!

Why risk the SCARY consequences of DISOBEYING TORAH? (Mt.5:19-20;7:21-23;13:41-42).

So OBEY!

 

"Pray to God"

Yes!  And the PSALMS are prayers (Ps.72:20) and Psalms require TORAH (e.g., Ps. 1;19;119) and Psalms are REQUIRED (Eph.5:19;Col.3:16). 

So offer TORAH-OBEDIENT prayers to God!

Otherwise, God won't even hear your prayers (Pr.28:9).  And Paul and Peter uphold the Proverbs too....so Pr.28:9 applies to you too!

 

"He show you how to REST in the Gospel Of Grace"

Excellent.  We are saved by the gospel IF WE HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-4), which is the word of FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

And GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  And HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ex.33:13;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH.

So REST in the Torah-obedient Gospel of Grace.

 

"If you refuse that Command Of God, you will be in an even MORE scary state— the State Of UNBELIEF"

Yikes!

We must therefore BELIEVE (Ge.15:6) and OBEY (Ge.26:5)...just like our father Abraham.

Let's BELIEVE (Jn.3:16) and OBEY (Jn.14:15) all Torah (Mt.5:19), as Jesus requires.

Let's have FAITH as Paul requires (citing " אֱמוּנָה " from Hab.2:4 at Gal.3:11).  And what is this way of " אֱמוּנָה " by which Paul says we must live?  Answer:  TORAH! (see " אֱמוּנָה " in Ps.119:30,86,138 for proof).

 

"now THAT is REAL Scary!   ( Heb 4 )"

True!

Heb. 4:7 tells us to HEAR GOD'S VOICE.  And those who obey God's voice are those who OBEY TORAH (Dt.13:4,18;15:5;26:17;30:20).

Heb. 4:11 tells us to NOT DISOBEY TORAH as happened before.  So OBEY!

Heb. 4:12 upholds the WORD OF GOD which includes TORAH (Dt.1:3;5:27-33). So OBEY!

Heb. 4:14 upholds JESUS who requires all TORAH (Mt.5:19) for ALL disciples of ALL nations (Mt.28:19-20).  So OBEY!

Heb. 4:16 upholds GRACE.  GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  And HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ex.33:13;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3).  So BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH.

Heb. 4:16 upholds MERCY.  MERCY is given to those who obey TORAH (Ex. 20:6).  So OBEY!

 

Wow...that's another 6 reasons to obey Torah.

These are encouraging words.

Thank you.

 

 

I seldom read your short posts.....I sure as heck ain’t gonna read a long one.....I am sure I never miss anything of value....

One does have to commit a overt sin to be sinning. I never met a Legalists yet that would try to defend “ The Sins of OMISSION “ that James talked and warned about......Why aren’t you down at the local Food Bank passing out food to the poor? Plenty of sick people in the hospitals right now could use a visitor. How many complete strangers have you invited to STAY in your home this week, to feed and clothe them, Sinner?

I hope those New to the Faith can see the utter SILLINESS  of thinking they can justify themselves before a Perfect God with their pitiful PerformanceBased Salvation.........The Game is “ rigged”, people ! God set it up that way! No matter what you “ do” it’s never enough! A wise person “ gets it!” Just ONE lustful thought makes you a candidate for Hell.....Hate somebody and in God’s eyes you are no better than a murderer....Break just ONE Law and you stand as guilty as a reprobate That has broken them ALL.....Just KNOWING what is the right thing to do, such as feeding and clothing complete strangers and NOT doing it is leadings a life of pure sin.Only a Blind Person  who has had his Mind blinded by The Enemy could fail to see  that God’s Intention is to get you to “ Shut Up” and come to an end of yourself . Your situation is UTTERLY HOPELESS ! God wants everybody to COME TO HIM as a completely lost sinner, the scales finally removed from their eyes, finally coming out of the “ Fool’s Paradise” that has trapped him into the Lie that he has something to offer God , Other than his sins....That Satanic Lie That says, “Well, maybe I ain’t perfect, but at Least I ain’t that guy out there in the Penitentiary ! I’m “ good enough” to make it to Heaven! I do a splendid job of keeping Torah and the Laws Of God ......Who cares what Peter said? He said “ Neither He nor His Fathers could keep Torah” . Peter was wise enough to know he HAD to have a Savior!

Here is the Rescue Plan God set in place for those who have had their “ Scales” removed and “ get it”. God wants you to use His Law to see the utter folly of trying to keep it , for all of the reasons listed above .The only thing you or anybody else has is the GRACE of God — IF you have been blessed by the Holy Spirit to have undergone the “ Mind Change” ( metanoia— True Repentance For Salvation) That ONLY the Spirit’s Conviction Of sin brings to a Contrite Heart . “ NOBODY COMES TO GOD LEST THE SPIRIT DRAW HIM” NOBODY is going to Heaven that does not possess a CONTRITE HEART! This is what the Legalists lack. Do their smarmy, “fun” answers appear to be coming from Contrite Hearts or PROUD HEARTS?  “Proud” because they think they can keep a Torah that Paul said was” weak and beggarly” when it came to Saving anybody.Its all about having a God- Given “ Contrite” heart.Some had better get on their knees and Turn to God and pray for that Contrite Heart......they lack it....

Here is what a truly REPENTANT , CONTRITE  Heart sounds like . It comes from a man that we know for CERTAIN was  SAVED ! Jesus said so. In the JewisH World , in the days of Jesus, there were few people lower than Tax Collectors.......they were “ fellow Jews” that were traitors to their Brothers and conspired with Rome to rob people of their incomes.They gave Rome the money due to them, and then pocketed anything they could get on top of that .....they could demand whatever they wanted....and they “ wanted” a lot! They were Evil Turn Coats.

Regardless, there was one tax collector whose Heart Of Stone had been made Contrite ......He “ Got it”.The Holy Spirit did His Job. He removed the Satanic Scales from this evil man’s . The man saw that he was a Sinner that needed help. ALL that was left for him to do was to cry out.... “ God, have Mercy on me, a sinner!” Jesus said “ He went home JUSTIFIED”

You wanna be “ Justified”  Before God ? To be “Justified” means to be seen, (and ONLY to be seen this way because of God’s Love and Grace).......to be seen “ Just as if I never sinned”. Saved. Forever. The Satanic Delusion Of keeping Torah or The 613 Commandments Of God to “merit” Heaven is a damnable Lie. The Bible said that despite all the Rules, All the Sacrifices, All the Commands, the only thing that God has EVER been looking for is a CONTRITE HEART......let me assure you, All you people out there that can’t say from a Contrite Heart, the equivalent of what the Tax Collector said, will be damned. Get with the Program, Legalists . You have not even made it to the “ starting gate”. Pray for the God- Given Contrite Heart.  

[Behold]

4 hours ago, douge said:

It is important to not conflate the purpose and gospel messages in scripture as this will lead to error and confusion.

 

 

"The Preaching of the Cross"  is the only "Gospel".

There are other messages, but they are not the Gospel, so you might want to correct  your post.

From this "Gospel", comes the Grace Doctrine, which explains what the end results are, based on someone hearing this Gospel and believing, and being born again.

To find all this info out, we study all of Paul's epistles.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Behold

[Behold]

1 hour ago, BibleGuy said:

FULFILLED does not prove ABOLISHED (otherwise Mt.5:17 is a self-contradiction!)

So FULFILLED doesn't help your case.

 

I dont have a case.  I'm just trying to help you  to stop  teaching heresy.

Understand, that you are trying to lead Christians who have been " freed from the curse of the Torah", right back into it.  You are a CLASSIC Galatians 1:8.   Its like you are the exact person Paul is talking about in that Letter.

Now, the law is Abolished. As the NT teaches.     You just have to read your New Testament.

Ephesians 2:15 :

"""""JESUS., by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that He might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,"""

This is Jesus FULFILLING.......all that the Law required so that we would no longer be under the "curse of the TORAH". (The Law)

Edited December 20, 2019 by Behold

[Behold]

21 hours ago, Willa said:

I am not under the law so I don't worry about it.

Amen, Sista.

The born again are under GRACE.   No law necessary for salvation.  No commandment keeping necessary for Salvation.

What is necessary for Salvation ?  =   The Blood of Jesus shed for us.

God doesn't accept anything else, as nothing else can wash our sin away, and allow God to give us HIS Righteousness, in place of our unrighteousness.

What an amazing GRACE free gift this is, that we are blessed with, and its all because God on The Cross, died so that we could have it.

Edited December 20, 2019 by Behold

[Alive]

22 hours ago, Mal'ak said:

 

The problem is you are picking scripture out of context, which is "seemingly disparate". If you let the Holy Spirit guide you, you would know he would lead you to Scripture not "feelings", as Jesus said "John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."  The false doctrine is based on the idea of the Holy Spirit giving you thoughts and opinions that pop in your head, no that is called satan.  The Holy Spirit works very specifically, he calls to "remembrance" everything Jesus taught you.  So if you don't study the Bible because you believe you are saved by Grace so the Bible is a paper weight, then the Holy Spirit will probably never talk to you, because he has nothing to call into remembrance  as you don't know anything.

 

Malachi 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

 

Matthew 11:9 But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

Matthew 11:11 Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Matthew 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

 

If we go by the Word of God, inspired by the real Holy Spirit, you would know the last prophet is John the Baptist.  Your concept is partly correct in "Jesus was an OT prophet and He was addressing Jews and speaking in terms that they understand being under Moses, but He hints of something greater."  But it was not Jesus, that was John's job.  It was prophesized a prophet would come before the Massiah, to prepare the Jews for the one that will come that will bring something greater.  As John said himself, "Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

 

Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

 

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Matthew 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

The reason Jesus spoke to the Jews, was because he was sent first to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" as was commanded by the Father.  But when he died he told his disciples, "teach all nations....teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you".  The Message was not changed, there was no new law or new way.  Jesus had to follow the command of the Father so went first to the Jews, but he told his disciples to teach what he had taught to the Jews and them.  Jesus did not say "a new message", he commanded them to teach what he taught them.  

You are contradicting yourself all over that post.

You say that I don't study the Bible and my bible is a paper weight......well, OK. That is a funny thing to say.

Anyway--none of what you said above deals with my post.

See ya later.

[BibleGuy]

7 minutes ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

I seldom read your short posts.....I sure as heck ain’t gonna read a long one.....I am sure I never miss anything of value....

One does have to commit a overt sin to be sinning. I never met a Legalists yet that would try to defend “ The Sins of OMISSION “ that James talked and warned about......Why aren’t you down at the local Food Bank passing out food to the poor? Plenty of sick people in the hospitals right now could use a visitor. How many complete strangers have you invited to STAY in your home this week, to feed and clothe them, Sinner?

I hope those New to the Faith can see the utter SILLINESS  of thinking they can justify themselves before a Perfect God with their pitiful PerformanceBased Salvation.........The Game is “ rigged”, people ! God set it up that way! No matter what you “ do” it’s never enough! A wise person “ gets it!” Just ONE lustful thought makes you a candidate for Hell.....Hate somebody and in God’s eyes you are no better than a murderer....Break just ONE Law and you stand as guilty as a reprobate That has broken them ALL.....Just KNOWING what is the right thing to do, such as feeding and clothing complete strangers and NOT doing it is leadings a life of pure sin.Only a Blind Person  who has had his Mind blinded by The Enemy could fail to see  that God’s Intention is to get you to “ Shut Up” and come to an end of yourself . Your situation is UTTERLY HOPELESS ! God wants everybody to COME TO HIM as a completely lost sinner, the scales finally removed from their eyes, finally coming out of the “ Fool’s Paradise” that has trapped him into the Lie that he has something to offer God , Other than his sins....That Satanic Lie That says, “Well, maybe I ain’t perfect, but at Least I ain’t that guy out there in the Penitentiary ! I’m “ good enough” to make it to Heaven! I do a splendid job of keeping Torah and the Laws Of God ......Who cares what Peter said? He said “ Neither He nor His Fathers could keep Torah” . Peter was wise enough to know he HAD to have a Savior!

Here is the Rescue Plan God set in place for those who have had their “ Scales” removed and “ get it”. God wants you to use His Law to see the utter folly of trying to keep it , for all of the reasons listed above .The only thing you or anybody else has is the GRACE of God — IF you have been blessed by the Holy Spirit to have undergone the “ Mind Change” ( metanoia— True Repentance For Salvation) That ONLY the Spirit’s Conviction Of sin brings to a Contrite Heart . “ NOBODY COMES TO GOD LEST THE SPIRIT DRAW HIM” NOBODY is going to Heaven that does not possess a CONTRITE HEART! This is what the Legalists lack. Do their smarmy, “fun” answers appear to be coming from Contrite Hearts or PROUD HEARTS?  “Proud” because they think they can keep a Torah that Paul said was” weak and beggarly” when it came to Saving anybody.Its all about having a God- Given “ Contrite” heart.Some had better get on their knees and Turn to God and pray for that Contrite Heart......they lack it....

Here is what a truly REPENTANT , CONTRITE  Heart sounds like . It comes from a man that we know for CERTAIN was  SAVED ! Jesus said so. In the JewisH World , in the days of Jesus, there were few people lower than Tax Collectors.......they were “ fellow Jews” that were traitors to their Brothers and conspired with Rome to rob people of their incomes.They gave Rome the money due to them, and then pocketed anything they could get on top of that .....they could demand whatever they wanted....and they “ wanted” a lot! They were Evil Turn Coats.

Regardless, there was one tax collector whose Heart Of Stone had been made Contrite ......He “ Got it”.The Holy Spirit did His Job. He removed the Satanic Scales from this evil man’s . The man saw that he was a Sinner that needed help. ALL that was left for him to do was to cry out.... “ God, have Mercy on me, a sinner!” Jesus said “ He went home JUSTIFIED”

You wanna be “ Justified”  Before God ? To be “Justified” means to be seen, (and ONLY to be seen this way because of God’s Love and Grace).......to be seen “ Just as if I never sinned”. Saved. Forever. The Satanic Delusion Of keeping Torah or The 613 Commandments Of God to “merit” Heaven is a damnable Lie. The Bible said that despite all the Rules, All the Sacrifices, All the Commands, the only thing that God has EVER been looking for is a CONTRITE HEART......let me assure you, All you people out there that can’t say from a Contrite Heart, the equivalent of what the Tax Collector said, will be damned. Get with the Program, Legalists . You have not even made it to the “ starting gate”. Pray for the God- Given Contrite Heart.  

"I seldom read your short posts.....I sure as heck ain’t gonna read a long one....."

Then be sure to NOT read the Bible!  It's WAY too long, eh?

 

"One does have to commit a overt sin to be sinning."

WRONG.  Some sins are unintentional (Nu.15:24).

 

"Why aren’t you down at the local Food Bank passing out food to the poor?"

Why assume EVERYBODY is required to do the IDENTICAL SAME jobs in life?

 

"Plenty of sick people in the hospitals right now could use a visitor. "

Why assume I don't visit?

 

"How many complete strangers have you invited to STAY in your home this week, to feed and clothe them"

That's unsafe for my family.  Love PROTECTS....

 

" SILLINESS  of thinking they can justify themselves before a Perfect God with their pitiful PerformanceBased Salvation"

True.  AVOID works without faith.

Instead, be justified by WORKS (Jas.2:24) and FAITH (Rom.5:1) TOGETHER.

 

"No matter what you “ do” it’s never enough!"

DO righteousness (1Jn.2:29;3:7;Ac. 10:35;2Ti.3:16) or else you are a child of the devil (1Jn.3:10) who will not inherit the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:20).

DO obedience to Torah, and be assured ETERNAL LIFE (Lk.10:25-28).

 

"A wise person “ gets it!”"

TORAH-OBEDIENCE is your WISDOM (Dt.4:6).

 

"Just ONE lustful thought makes you a candidate for Hell"

Good thing the BLOOD cleanses us from all sin! (1Jn.1:7)

 

"Hate somebody and in God’s eyes you are no better than a murderer..."

God hates too (Mal.1:3).  Imitate God (Eph.5:1).

 

"Break just ONE Law and you stand as guilty as a reprobate "

GOOD reason to obey the law!

 

"God’s Intention is to get you to “ Shut Up” and come to an end of yourself . "

Jesus expects us to LIVE (Mt.4:4) by EVERY WORD OF GOD (citing Dt. 8:3 referencing Torah).

 

"Your situation is UTTERLY HOPELESS !"

Our HOPE is in the covenants (Eph.2:12) which are given as TORAH (e.g., Jer.31:33).

 

" finally coming out of the “ Fool’s Paradise”"

Don't be foolish.  FOOLS oppose wisdom (Pr.24:7) in Torah (Dt. 4:6).  So obey Torah!  Don't be foolish!

 

"the Lie that he has something to offer God "

We offer God OBEDIENCE (Rom.1:5;16:26) to TORAH (1Jn.5:3;2Ti.3:16;Jn.14:15 + Mt.5:19).

 

"That Satanic Lie"

Lies are bad.  Torah is TRUTH (Ps.119:142).  So OBEY Torah!

Satan inspires the antichrist who opposes Torah (2Th.2:3-4).  So OBEY Torah!  Don't be like satan.

 

" I do a splendid job of keeping Torah and the Laws Of God "

Your Torah-obedience determines your position in the forthcoming kingdom (Mt.5:19).

 

"Who cares what Peter said? He said “ Neither He nor His Fathers could keep Torah” . "

Rather, the yoke of Ac.15:10 is the ANTI-Torah yoke requiring TORAH+CIRCUMCISION as proof of salvation.

That's why Torah-obedient Peter OPPOSES the ANTI-Torah yoke in Ac.15.

 

"Peter was wise enough to know he HAD to have a Savior!"

And we are saved from SINS (Mt.1:21), i.e., from TORAH-DISOBEDIENCE (given Rom.3:20;7:7).  So OBEY!  Don't keep sinning!

 

" God wants you to use His Law to see the utter folly of trying to keep it "

OOPS!  Moses said it is NOT too difficult (Dt.30:11).  Moses did not lie.

Luke said all Torah CAN be obeyed (Lk.1:6).  Luke did not lie.

Jesus said ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) is EASY (Mt.11:30).  Jesus did not lie.

 

"The only thing you or anybody else has is the GRACE of God "

GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3;Ex.33:13).  BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) thus means OBEY TORAH!

After all, God commands Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33)....so OBEY!

 

"IF you have been blessed by the Holy Spirit"

The SPIRIT testifies we obey TORAH (Heb.10:15-16).

The SPIRIT leads us to obey ALL Torah ordinances (Eze.36:27).

The SPIRIT leads us to obey Torah (Rom.8:13 + Rom.8:7).

The SPIRIT is the substance of Jesus words (Jn.6:63) which include TORAH (Mt.5:19;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28).

The SPIRIT is given to those who obey God (Ac.5:32) who requires TORAH (Dt. 1:3;5:27-33).

Paul obeys in the Spirit (Rom.7:6).  Obeys what?  TORAH! (Rom.7:25).

So OBEY!

 

"True Repentance For Salvation"

Those who REPENT obey TORAH ("שׁוּב", Dt. 30:1-8).

We have salvation in the Gospel IF WE HOLD FAST TO THE WORD PAUL PREACHED (1Cor.15:1-4) which is faithful Torah-obedience (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

 

 

"That ONLY the Spirit’s Conviction Of sin brings to a Contrite Heart . "

Yes, sin is bad.  So STOP SINNING (1Cor.15:34) means OBEY TORAH (given Rom.3:20;7:7).

 

"NOBODY is going to Heaven that does not possess a CONTRITE HEART!"

And those with a contrite heart (Ps.51:17) offer TORAH ANIMAL SACRIFICES (Ps.51:19).

We WILL do this again (Dt.30:1-8)....or else Moses is a false prophet.

 

"Contrite Hearts or PROUD HEARTS?"

PRIDE is bad.  So be HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Ex.33:13;Zep.2:3).  So be humble and obey TORAH.

 

"Torah that Paul said was” weak and beggarly”"

OOPS!  Gal. 4:9-10 refers to PAGAN feasts, not TORAH feasts.  Paul COMMANDS Torah feasts (e.g., 1Cor.5:7-8).

 

"Its all about having a God- Given “ Contrite” heart."

Torah too (Mt.5:19).

After all, the CONTRITE obey TORAH (Jer.44:10).

The CONTRITE obey TORAH (Is.66:2).

The CONTRITE even offer animal sacrifices (Ps.51:17-19).

 

"Some had better get on their knees and Turn to God and pray "

God requires Torah (Dt.1:3;5:27-33).

Psalms are prayers (Ps.72:20), and Psalms require TORAH (e.g., Ps.1;19;119).  And Paul requires Psalms (Eph.5:19;Col.3:16).

So offer Torah-obedient PRAYER to God who requires TORAH.

 

"“ God, have Mercy on me, a sinner!” "

And God has MERCY upon those who repent and obey TORAH (Ex.20:6).

So OBEY!

 

"Jesus said “ He went home JUSTIFIED”"

We are JUSTIFIED by Torah (Rom.2:13) and WORKS (Jas.2:24) and FAITH (Rom.5:1) TOGETHER.

 

" Saved. Forever. "

Forever....IF YOU CONTINUE IN PAUL'S WORD (1Cor.15:1-4) which is FAITHFUL TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

Forever....IF YOU CONTINUE IN JESUS' WORD (Jn.8:31) which is TORAH (Mt.5:19;23:2-3,23,34;Lk.10:25-28).

 

"The Satanic Delusion Of keeping Torah "

Paul says we should KEEP GOD'S COMMANDS (1Cor.7:19) which, of course, are contained in Torah (1Ki.2:3).

Moses said it is NOT TOO DIFFICULT (Dt.30:11).

Luke said ALL TORAH can be obeyed (Lk.1:6).

Jesus said ALL TORAH (Mt.5:19) is EASY (Mt.11:30).

 

" “merit” Heaven is a damnable Lie. "

Of COURSE we don't "merit" heaven.  The BLOOD cleanses our sins away (1Jn.1:7)....not our faithless works.

 

" the only thing that God has EVER been looking for is a CONTRITE HEART"

Uhh......God commands a LOT MORE than "thou shalt be contrite".....the commands are PLURAL! (1Cor.7:19;1Jn.5:3;Jn.14:15 + Mt.5:19;Dt.6:5,25).

 

"Get with the Program, Legalists . "

Whom are you talking to?  Nobody here argues for salvation by works without faith.

The BIBLE argues for justification by WORKS AND NOT FAITH ALONE (Jas.2:24).

Paul tells us to WALK IN WORKS (Eph.2:10).

 

"Pray for the God- Given Contrite Heart.  "

Amen!

The CONTRITE obey TORAH (Jer.44:10).

The CONTRITE obey TORAH (Is.66:2).

The CONTRITE even offer animal sacrifices (Ps.51:17-19).

So OBEY Torah! 

Otherwise your prayer is an abomination (Pr.28:9).

 

blessings...

 

[BibleGuy]

43 minutes ago, Behold said:

 

"The Preaching of the Cross"  is the only "Gospel".

There are other messages, but they are not the Gospel, so you might want to correct  your post.

From this "Gospel", comes the Grace Doctrine, which explains what the end results are, based on someone hearing this Gospel and believing, and being born again.

To find all this info out, we study all of Paul's epistles.

The GOSPEL is the WORD PAUL PREACHES (1Cor.15:1-2) which includes TORAH-OBEDIENCE (citing Dt. 30:14 at Rom.10:8).

GRACE is given to the HUMBLE (Jas.4:6;Pr.3:34;1Pe.5:5).  HUMBLE people obey TORAH (Nu.12:3;Ps.25:9;Zep.2:3;Ex.33:13).  So, BE HUMBLE (1Pe.5:6) means OBEY TORAH!

Those who BELIEVE (Ge.15:6) also OBEY (Ge.26:5).

Paul applies ALL Torah to you (2Ti.3:16).

So OBEY!

blessings...