The Holy Sabbath Day

[sail2awe]

Dr,

to complete <plēroō> the word of God, so, what do you mean by 'huh'? is not the Greek word used, plēroō the word 'complete'?

G4137

πληρόω

plēroō

play-ro'-o

From G4134; to make replete, that is, (literally) to cram (a net), level up (a hollow), or (figuratively) to furnish (or imbue, diffuse, influence), satisfy, execute (an office), finish (a period or task), verify (or coincide with a prediction), etc.: - accomplish, X after, (be) complete, end, expire, fill (up), fulfil, (be, make) full (come), fully preach, perfect, supply.

And isnt' the subject which completes this word of God called the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, BUT NOW is made manifest plain speach?

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest

And this plain speech declares that the mystery which had been hid, but now is made manifest, couldnot then, have been made manifest before in the OT. The HS using the earthen vessel Paul declares it to be so, therefore I believe it is the reason Paul was no longer able to quote OT Scripture when explaining what this mystery is. It isn't that gentiles would be blessed thru Israel, that was never a secret, it isn't that a son would be born called the Almighty God and the everlasting Father, for that was never a secret, and it wasn't that Israel would be 'hewn down', as that was never a secret, and it wasn't that Israel would be provoked by 'a people who is no people', for that was never a secret either.

The Word of God that Paul was revealing was the Gospel. Jesus Christ dying for your sins was the Mystery. The fulfillment of the Word of God is the Gospel. It is Jesus Christ. Paul was speaking of a dispensation a granting of God that he Paul was a partaker of this fulfillment by the very Grace of Jesus Christ. This was no new revelation or mystery.

That isn't the mystery, Ps23, as well as that which Christ Himself so stated:

Mat 16:21 From that time forth began Jesus to show unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luk 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Luk 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luk 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the Scriptures,

Luk 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luk 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

That Paul would deliever that which was called a mystery, which was hid in God may have been a secret not made known, but that is not what the mystery of God is, which Paul is making known, so, You lost me there, I ask you to look at these please:

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God;

Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory

Paul is clearly saying there was a secret which was hid in God, hid from ages of time and from generations of men, but now made known...

Even Christ said:

Joh 16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

Paul was given a two fold commission, first :

Act 26:16 But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose,

to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things

1. which thou hast seen,

and

2. of those things in the which I will appear unto thee;

1.

Act 28:20 For this cause...for the hope of Israel

2.

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,

now, if the mystery which is revealed only in the prison epistles and not made known unto the sons of men is the same as that which had been made known from the beginning, then words can mean anything we want them to mean. I suggest a further study into what is the unsearchable riches, and that they are unsearchable because they were a mystery <secret> hid in God, not hid in the Bible.

And that this is why Paul cannot use OT quotes to show forth what is this great mystery which was hid, but now is made manifest. Paul quoted so well, but that stopped when the mystery was, as he so stated, 'by revelation he made known unto me the mystery'.

Edited August 9, 2005 by sail2awe

[ayin jade]

The moderators usually pm you regarding their actions. If they havent, then please pm Dr Luke and ask.

[Matthitjah]

Sail,

I want to ask you a question?

Is there a Jewish man sitting on the Throne of God? Is Jesus a Jew?

Paul's Jewishness did not cease when he came to Faith in Christ Jesus. It was fulfilled. For what he was practicing was a mere shadow of the Mystery revealed.

Peace,

Dave

[apothanein kerdos]

Sail,

I want to ask you a question?

Is there a Jewish man sitting on the Throne of God?

Paul's Jewishness did not cease when he came to Faith in Christ Jesus. It was fulfilled. For what he was practicing was a mere shadow of the Mystery revealed.

Peace,

Dave

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think what Sail is trying to say is that when we get to heaven there is neither Jew nor Gentile, we are all one body. Likewise in the broad spectrum there is no such thing as a Messianic Jew just as there is not a Messianic Pagan or a Messianic Gentile, for essentially we have become one body. Paul, though a Jew, would often act like a Gentile in order to reach out to the Gentiles. Likewise, one's "Jewishness" is not linked to how one follows the Torah, for if it is then no modern Jew is truly a Jew.

Will the nation of Israel be in Heaven? Only if they have accepted Christ, which I happen to believe will happen en masse someday, but in heaven we will be one, all grafted into the promise.

All of this said, the Torah was not meant to be followed in the Church setting. The Torah was meant for Israel and how they would represent God as an earthly kingdom. Our calling and law is higher than the Torah laws.

[sail2awe]

Ephesians begins the prison ministry wherein are given to us gentiles to know what is:

*the mystery of his will

*by revelation...the mystery

*the mystery of Christ

*the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God

*a great mystery...concerning Christ and the church.

*to make known the mystery of the gospel

*the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest

*the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles

*the acknowledgement of the mystery of God

*the mystery of the faith

*the mystery of godliness

When we do not fully understand these mysteries, and their relationships, we should ask ourselves why not? They are written in the only letters ever written 'for you gentiles'.

For this cause:

When we see these words,

Edited August 10, 2005 by sail2awe

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

Sail,

You didn't answer my question?

I understand completely what you are saying. However the Mystery is Jesus Christ. You yourself have stated that we are seated in the Heavenly's with Him. By being in Him.

Yes, God desired to preach the Gospel to the Jews first then the Gentile. Paul received this Mystery how?

Eph

[sail2awe]

Dr.

You didn't answer my question?

It is a trick question?

Is God is a Jew?

Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

God is Spirit. He took the form of a servant under covenant law as prophesized

flesh and bone cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Now He is risen in Glory. I cannot lean unto my own understanding on this one, and differ that if it isn't written, I shant add it in that Christ is risen praise God who is a Jew. Your on your own on that one.

I understand completely what you are saying. However the Mystery is Jesus Christ.

Christ is not a mystery. How can you say that?. Christ comes in the volume of the Book. The entire purpose was to make known. It is and always was known that God exists and that He would come in the flesh as the savior of His people using Israel as the channel for the healing of the nations.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The mystery is not made known before the prison epistles. It was hid in God. There are other mysteries, but to say they are all the same is an oversight.

The mystery was 'hid in God from ages and from generations' was not made known until we first find the words 'but now is made manifest...'

The words 'but now' always means something new. It is a good little word study, looking up all their occurances are quite revealing.

Yes, God desired to preach the Gospel to the Jews first then the Gentile. Paul received this Mystery how?

Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery

The mystery to which Paul speaks was not made known previously. That means you cannot find it previous to this epistle and this is the first one written after Acts and the first one written to gentiles.

The things that were not made known are easily discernable.

It was not made known that genties would be blessed apart from Israel.

It was not made known gentiles would inhabit the heavenly spheres.

It was not made known that gentiles would receive every blessing which is spiritual.

It was not made known that gentiles would be seated with Christ in the heavenly places.

It was not made known that God had chosen any company from before the foundation of the world.

There is much more, but these first have need of acknowledgment.

Eph 1:9

Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he has purposed in himself:

He Jesus Christ purposed it in Himself. He is the Mystery. It is bound up in Him. It was revealed to Paul to preach to the Gentile. However this was no new Mystery. It was bound up in Christ by which everything that was made was made.

That's not what my Bible says. In mine, it is that God is making Himself known, not keeping Himself a mystery. It is my understanding that all of the types and shadows, from the curtains to the tabernacle to the silver sockets from the redemption money which was its foundation all pointed to Him that was to come.

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Remember, mystery is only the word secret, and that a secret no longer remains a secret after it is made known. Clearly ps23 and others, Isa53 and others form a body of work clearly depicting Christ's coming and the results of that.

Again;

Eph 3:9

And to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

To make all men see both Jew and Gentile. thumbsup.gif The Mystery which from the beginning was hid in God. Who Created all things by Jesus Christ. A Jew from whom Salvation did come.

so you quote the mystery was hid in God, but you deny when the mystery was made known. This is saying it was hidden from, or since, the the foundation of the world, as it says other places.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

That Genitles would be blessed apart from Israel was never made known and they were not blessed apart from Israel during the Acts period when it was the kingdom of hope for Israel as being in view. A seperate and gentile church was never in view in the Acts when they stood outside the middle wall of partition awaiting for the Jews to hear first.

The twofold ministry of the Apostle Paul now comes to light (see Acts 20:17-24 and 26:16-18), revealing that his second ministry wou1d be accompanied with imprisonment, would be related to a second revelation from the Lord, and would be directed particularly to the Gentiles. The last "signs and wonders" that fu1fil the promise of Mark 16:17,18 are recorded (Acts 28:1-10), the last reference to the "hope of Israel" is made (Acts 28:20), the last citation of Isaiah 6:10 is made, and Israel become Lo-ammi (not My people, Hosea 1:9), the "salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles", and the dispensation of the Mystery is made known.

The way in which Isaiah 6:10 is cited at great crises in Israel's history is worthy of study. From the days of Abraham onward the gospel was no secret:

"The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham" (Gal. 3:8).

"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day: and he saw it, and was glad" (John 8:56).

Here, however, in Romans 16:25-27 is a mystery, and that mystery something that had been silenced. It cannot, therefore, possibly be the same thing as the gospel preached in Romans one. It is not stated, however, in Romans I :1,2, or in any of the passages that link the gospel with the O.T. Scriptures, that the gospel was fully made known before the coming of Christ. Take for example Romans I: 17:

"For therein (i.e. the gospel of Christ, 1:16) is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith, according as it hath been written" (in Hab. 2:4) "The just shall live by faith".

Without the fuller light of the gospel of Christ, it would not be evident from the passage in Habakkuk that the power of the gospel of Christ resided in the provision of a righteousness by faith. This will be evident if we quote the passage:

"For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith" (Hab. 2:3-4).

But this provision is now "revealed' , and in the hands of an inspired Apostle can be confirmed by such passages as Habakkuk 2:4, although the teaching does not lie on the surface. Again, having quoted many passages from the O.T. Scriptures, the Apostle says:

"But now" (in contrast to the period "then") "the righteousness of God, apart from law, has been manifested" (perfect tense) "being borne witness to" (present tense) "by the law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God with is by faith of Jesus Christ" (Rom. 3:21,22).

Here the "manifestation" takes place before the "witness" can be borne by O.T. prophets. So in Romans 16:26, we read of something that has been kept in silence, but which was then made manifest.

Differences:

http://www.worthyboards.com/forums/index.p...howtopic=26313#

This is True that it makes us neither Gentile nor Jew yet a New Creation in Christ. This does not negate that I am a Gentile living in the flesh and will be ressurected as such.

Even a Jew, if God will open the eyes of their understanding to the truth in Christ, comes as a gentile, not as a Jew, for in this church called the one body, and the church which is His body comes as an individual member of the nations, not as a member of the Hebrew nation. Likewise, I do not have to become an Hebrew, and I do not have to wait till the Jew hears first. In this body Christ is head, all members are equal. This will change again, when again the Lord takes up His mighty purpose with His chosen people Israel in the future, as we are assured His words shall not return unto Him void.

Edited August 11, 2005 by sail2awe

[Guest Blessed by Association]

Remnantrob,

I hope you are not WILFULLY blind. I want you to explain why the Bible says over and over again that the law was done away with, that it became OBSOLETE. Heb 8:13 says that the NEW COVENANT made the old one OBSOLETE. Jesus instituted the NEW COVENANT on the night before he died, 1Cor 11:23-26, Luke 22:28-30, 2Cor 3:3-11. I want to know why you would want to continue to be under a law covenant the condemned to death all under it. No person under the Mosaic Law could be forgiven COMPLETELY for their sins, Heb 10:11, 7:23-25. The ONLY way a person can be declared righteous is by FAITH in the ransom sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Gal 2:15,16. Nothing could be more pellucid than Acts 13:38,39, which says that from all the things you could not be forgiven under the Mosaic Law Covenant, you can be forgiven by faith in Jesus. To continue on under the Mosaic Law means you are belittling the Ransom Sacrifice of Jesus Christ, Gal 2:21, and even more important Heb 10:28,29, anyone who wants to continue under the Mosaic Law is TRAMPLING UPON THE SON OF GOD, and viewing the giving of his life for us as useless. I would not want to face God under those circumstances!!!

Everyone under ths Mosaic Law Covenant is under a CURSE, Gal 3:10-13, 5:4.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Blessed by Association

[other one]

Jehovah and Jesus are the same entity in two different forms, but neither of those is the Father.

Jesus set aside His form as Jehovah and came here as a flesh born human, and he brought a new covenant when he did. He transformed the law of moses, which was physical, into spiritual laws that the Holy Spirit plants into our hearts so as to live those commandments in the spirit realm. AS lived in the spirit realm makes the physical realm of none effect. Even as far as making the Sabbath a way of life and not just one single day of the week.

That is the difference between the law of moses and the commandments that were given by Jesus Christ when he was here the first time.

If you live by the spirit you are free from the law of moses. If you love the Lord with all your heart and mind and soul you will not do things that would break any of the first three commandments. If you live the spirit filled life of a true follower of Christ then every day of your life is the sabbath; and if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not only not break the last six commandments you will help your neighbor in his/her troubles and give reason for your neighbor to love you back.... This was not possible with the old physical laws of moses.....

We have a new commandment(s) that are better than the old, or else there would not have been a need for the new.......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

other one,

Explain why the Bible says that God exalted Jesus to a higher position, Phil 2:9.

Why does Jesus say the Father is greater than I am?? John 14:28.

How could God know things that Jesus does not?? Matt 24:36.

Why does God control something Jesus cannot?? Matt 20:23.

Why does Jesus say that he lives because of the Father?? John 6:57.

Why does Jesus tell Peter that his Father in heaven told Peter that Jesus was His SON and also the Christ?? Matt 16:15-17.

Why does Jesus call the Father his GOD and hgis Father?? John 20:17, Rev 3:12.

Why does Jesus say only ONE is good, the Father?? Luke 18:18,19.

Why does the Bible tells us that Jesus was made PERFECT, by suffering, Heb 2:10, 5:8,9.

Who spoke to Jesus from heaven, when Jesus was on earth, John 12:28, Matt 3:17, Mark 9:7.

Jesus said the Father is ONE, Mark, 12:29,32, also, Gal 3:20, Deut 6:4.

Why is it recorded in the scriptures that if you do not believe that Jesus is the SON of God you cannot be saved, John 20:31, 1John 4:15, 5:5.

The scriptures tell us that God Himself bore witness that Jesus was His SON, 1John 5:9-11. Is God lying, is Jesus?? Do you claim to know more than they do??

The Bible tells us that Jesus was TEMPTED by the Devil, Luke 4:1-13. It is impossible to tempt God, because everything in heaven and on earth belongs to Him. When Jesus was being tempted and the Devil showed him all the kingdoms of the worl in an instant, Satan said these were given to him. WHO gave these kingdoms to Satan. Jesus did not, Jesus was being tempted to receive them.

Why does the Bible tell us that the Father does NO JUDGING, but has given all the judging to the SON?? John 5:20. This would be a total lie if they were the same. Are you calling God a lier, or Jesus, or do you know more than they do??

At least two times in the scriptures we see God on His throne and Jesus coming to the thone to teceive something from God, Dan 7:13,14, Rev 5:7,8. How is this possible?? Maybe they are not a trinity, but a tricorporal, three bodies, but one head, instead of three heads and one body.

There are terms used in theology: ACCOMMODATION, and anthropomorphisms. These mean that God uses terms in His book that everyone understands. If any did not know what Father meant, a child would not be graduated from kindergarden. If a child did not know what greater means he would not be graduated from kindergarden. These things are NO-BRAINERS, and still people who profes to believe the scriptures can't understand the simplest concepts. Daniel gave one answer, Dan 12:10. Jesus made the statement: I publicly praise you FATER because you have CAREFULLY HIDDEN these things from the wise and intellectual ones ,but have revealed them to babes. People who are WILFULLY BLIND cannot understand the simplest ideas, because they do not haveGod's spirit, 1Cor 2:11-15, 1Cor 1:26-28, John 12:39-43, 2Cor 4:3,4.

See that what is written in the scriptures does not come upon you, Acts 13:40,41.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll have to wait at least until tomorrow to explain what I was getting at. Just got home from knee surgery and not quite ready to think that hard. Anesthetics tend to disrupt serious linear thinking where you have to go through several steps to get somewhere. I'll get back to this tomorrow.

[Remnantrob]

Hope you feel better soon other one