Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[ENOCH2010]

The second coming is the rapture, and it happens post trib. The Bible does not teach a pre-trib resurrection of "the dead in Christ" so there can not be a pre-trib rapture. If it does and I have overlooked it I sure wish you would point it out to me.

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, The Light said:

What do you mean? You asked me where the pretrib resurrection was and I gave you a specific answer. The resurrection described in 1 Thes 4 is the pretribualtion rapture. Just read it, it speaks for itself.

Not sure why you are having an issue?

If 1 thes 4 is not the pre tribulation rapture, what is it?

They will never see it, they already knows it in their minds and isn't going to change no time soon. When they gets to heaven they will find out they were in error. They get hung up on TWO COMINGS for the two advents of God, it doesn't matter how many times you show them Jesus has come to earth more than twice already, or that the two advents have nothing to do with how many times Jesus comes to earth, they see the small scale 1 and 2 and seem to limit God,  they do not see the the grander picture via the advents. 

What gets me is there are 100's of scriptures that point to the factual pre trib Rapture and they not only discount them but some of them then get all huffy when you point out their errors on the subject {not all}. 

I mean Rev. 12:17 proves a Pre trib rapture and they don't get it ? It proves the Remnant can't be a Jew, thus it has to be the Gentile Church.

Remnant Definition

noun

1. a small remaining quantity of something. 

adjective

2. remaining.

Anyone who denies the Remnant can not be ANY Jews are not reading the verses correctly imho. Its too easy for me to see, that it has to be the Remnant Church !! I mean its as plain as day.

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

OK, so the Woman is a Fleeing Israel whom the Dragon can't get at via the Anti-Christs army so hes angry that God PROTECTED her, so he turns to go get at the REMNANT {KEY WORD} of HER {Israels} SEED {Jesus is her Seed, see Gal. ch. 3} who keep God's Commandments and have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ in their hearts/mouths. 

So why can't the REMNANT be the Jews ? Well lets take Zechariah 13:8-9 at FACE VALUE, 1/3 of the Jews Repent and 2/3 do not. The 1/3 God Protects and the 2/3 will perish, that is what the bible says, they will die. 

So the 1/3 can't be the REMNANT because that is who the Dragon chased into the Wilderness and can't get at. The 2/3 can't be the REMNANT because they do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ nor do they keep God's Commandments !! So its not them either, and when you add 1/3 and 2/3 that don't leave any other Jews to count !! 

SO WHO IS THE REMNANT ? The plain reading tells us.

Its the Remnant of Israels SEED who Galatians chapter 3 says is Jesus Christ !!

Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So the REMNANT can only be the Partial Body that is left of THE SEED which is Jesus Christ, thus we have a Remnant Church.....thus the Church can't be on earth in full, because ONLY the Remnant Church is on earth. And we know why don't we brother.........

Rev. 19 says the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb readying herself to come back with the Lamb whilst the Beast and his minions are still on earth !!

But lets pretend these are not facts, then we can keep our understandings going, oblivious to the facts. The facts however are all that matter to me. 

So in just ONE VERSE I can point out why there is a Pre Trib Rapture. 

[Diaste]

40 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The second coming is the rapture, and it happens post trib. The Bible does not teach a pre-trib resurrection of "the dead in Christ" so there can not be a pre-trib rapture. If it does and I have overlooked it I sure wish you would point it out to me.

Yes. And no evidence against is not evidence for, which is really what pretrib is all about. 

[Diaste]

15 hours ago, The Light said:

 

If 1 thes 4 is not the pre tribulation rapture, what is it?

It is the description of the event without associated timing of any kind. Any timing for the event of 1 Thess 4 is made up.

[Diaste]

On 2/12/2020 at 7:54 AM, OldCoot said:

that is a pretty spurious argument.   The reason the rapture didn't happen for them is because the time of the rapture has not come.  What about what happened to the Apostles?  Were they not good enough also?   what of what happened to many Christians at the hands of the "church".   That doesn't mean they will not be resurrected at the rapture as Isiah and Paul go into detail about.  

 

So they are good enough for the rapture, that they died before the rapture doesn't negate their participation.  Both dead and living righteous get to participate.   And that still doesn't negate the timing of the removal.  

 

It's not spurious. It's more than legit. The problem is that pretrib avoids persecution of the 'church' at the hands of the ruler of this world.

Part of the argument is that those 'left behind' are not good enough to be 'taken' and they must undergo purification. 

Then what of those dying today in the name of Jesus? If persecution is the wrath of God in the 'tribulation period' then why isn't the persecution experience of 100,000 a year wrath? Which pretrib says we are to avoid through the early exit.

[Diaste]

58 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

They will never see it, they already knows it in their minds and isn't going to change no time soon. When they gets to heaven they will find out they were in error. They get hung up on TWO COMINGS for the two advents of God, it doesn't matter how many times you show them Jesus has come to earth more than twice already, or that the two advents have nothing to do with how many times Jesus comes to earth, they see the small scale 1 and 2 and seem to limit God,  they do not see the the grander picture via the advents. 

What gets me is there are 100's of scriptures that point to the factual pre trib Rapture and they not only discount them but some of them then get all huffy when you point out their errors on the subject {not all}. 

I mean Rev. 12:17 proves a Pre trib rapture and they don't get it ? It proves the Remnant can't be a Jew, thus it has to be the Gentile Church.

Remnant Definition

noun

1. a small remaining quantity of something. 

adjective

2. remaining.

Anyone who denies the Remnant can not be ANY Jews are not reading the verses correctly imho. Its too easy for me to see, that it has to be the Remnant Church !! I mean its as plain as day.

Rev. 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

OK, so the Woman is a Fleeing Israel whom the Dragon can't get at via the Anti-Christs army so hes angry that God PROTECTED her, so he turns to go get at the REMNANT {KEY WORD} of HER {Israels} SEED {Jesus is her Seed, see Gal. ch. 3} who keep God's Commandments and have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ in their hearts/mouths. 

So why can't the REMNANT be the Jews ? Well lets take Zechariah 13:8-9 at FACE VALUE, 1/3 of the Jews Repent and 2/3 do not. The 1/3 God Protects and the 2/3 will perish, that is what the bible says, they will die. 

So the 1/3 can't be the REMNANT because that is who the Dragon chased into the Wilderness and can't get at. The 2/3 can't be the REMNANT because they do not have the TESTIMONY of Jesus Christ nor do they keep God's Commandments !! So its not them either, and when you add 1/3 and 2/3 that don't leave any other Jews to count !! 

SO WHO IS THE REMNANT ? The plain reading tells us.

Its the Remnant of Israels SEED who Galatians chapter 3 says is Jesus Christ !!

Gal. 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

So the REMNANT can only be the Partial Body that is left of THE SEED which is Jesus Christ, thus we have a Remnant Church.....thus the Church can't be on earth in full, because ONLY the Remnant Church is on earth. And we know why don't we brother.........

Rev. 19 says the Church is in Heaven Marrying the Lamb readying herself to come back with the Lamb whilst the Beast and his minions are still on earth !!

But lets pretend these are not facts, then we can keep our understandings going, oblivious to the facts. The facts however are all that matter to me. 

So in just ONE VERSE I can point out why there is a Pre Trib Rapture. 

????

[The Light]

58 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

The second coming is the rapture, and it happens post trib. The Bible does not teach a pre-trib resurrection of "the dead in Christ" so there can not be a pre-trib rapture. If it does and I have overlooked it I sure wish you would point it out to me.

There are plenty of scriptures that prove a pretribualtion rapture.

1 thes 4

¹⁶ For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

¹⁷ Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

In 1st Thes 4 we see that the Lord Himself descends from heaven with the trump of God. The trump of God is the voice of God. The dead in Christ rise. Christ was the 1st Fruits of this harvest. This harvest is the Gentiles. Pentecost early summer harvest. In Song of Solomon 2 we see the one who says "Rise up and come away" is upon the mountains and hills

 

1 Cor 15

⁵² In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

⁵³ For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Matt 24

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In 1 Cor 15 we see the dead rising at the last trump. The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is the fall fruit harvest. It is the harvest of the 12 tribes of which the 144,000 are the 1st fruits of this harvest. 1st fruits is a guarantee of a harvest.

We also know that this time He sends His angels.

The are many reasons that there will be a pretribulation rapture starting with the fullness of the Gentiles coming in.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, The Light said:

There are plenty of scriptures that prove a pretribualtion rapture.

 

1 hour ago, The Light said:

There are plenty of scriptures that can be twisted into a pretribualtion rapture.

FIFY (Fixed it for ya.)

[The Light]

1 minute ago, Last Daze said:

 

FIFY (Fixed it for ya.)

I missed the part where I twisted anything. Please clarify.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Diaste said:

????

When you can't rebut................