Rapture before the antichrist in Matthew 24

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

Suffice it to say that pretrib will be proven wrong in time.

Regardless on our hermeneutic views on non-essentials, doesn't make us any more or less Christian, or more or less brothers and sisters in Christ. There should be no divisions among us. Now with that said:

See you in Heaven after the Rapture / Resurrection before the tribulation   

[The Light]

29 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

You are the only pre-tribber I know of that is willing to add to scripture the pre-trib rapture for the good Christians, then add another for the not good enough Christians to come on along later. Still the "dead in Christ" rise at the second coming (the first resurrection Rev.20) are you going to put another rapture here. 

It appears that I am not explaining myself very well. I do not believe that there are good Christians and not so good Christians that will be raptured later. I believe that there is a coming of the Lord when the GOODMAN will not know when the Lord is coming.

Matt 24

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Then after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, God will turn His attention to the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. When He comes this time we are told that these people will not be surprised at His coming. They will know when He is coming. They are not in darkness that that day will take them unaware.

1 Thes 5

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

² For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

⁵ Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Two different comings of the Lord. The first time for the Church. The second time for the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. Should we be surprised that God keeps His promises to His people.

You just need an understanding of the TIMES AND SEASONS. Not TIME AND SEASON

Edited February 14, 2020 by The Light

[ENOCH2010]

On 2/13/2020 at 7:04 PM, The Light said:

What do you mean? You asked me where the pretrib resurrection was and I gave you a specific answer. The resurrection described in 1 Thes 4 is the pretribualtion rapture. Just read it, it speaks for itself.

Not sure why you are having an issue?

If 1 thes 4 is not the pre tribulation rapture, what is it?

No timing can be formed from the scriptures in 1 Thes. and the same can be said of the 1 Cor scriptures. 

The dead in Christ rise first then we which are alive and remain will join them to meet the lord in the air. Read about the first and second resurrections in Rev. 20 to see if you can find timing. 

[OldCoot]

4 hours ago, Alive said:

@OldCootdo you believe a pre-7 or mid 7 taking up? Can you explain why for me?

Pre 7.    Because Zephaniah 2 amplifies Isaiah 26 in saying that it will happen 'before the decree is issued'.   The only decree of that time that is of unique significance is the affirmation of the covenant by the AC in Daniel 9:27.

Also, 2 Thessalonians 2.    The context of the passage is the day of the Lord and our gathering unto Him.   And it would seem that these folks were upset by a fake letter that they were already in the day of the Lord.  Well, to be upset, they must have felt they missed something.   Paul had to remind them that 'that day' would not happen unless the departure happens first, then the son of perdition be revealed.    He amplified that a few verses later saying that the one who restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way, then the man of sin will be revealed.  The only thing that restrains evil is the Holy Spirit who indwells and seals the believers.   If He is 'taken out of the way' then by extension the vessels He resides in will be taken out of the way.

In both OT and NT references, it seems clear that the righteous are being taken out of the way and hidden before the decree is issued and man of sin is revealed.

Likewise, Peter refers to us as a Holy Nation and Royal Priesthood.    Back to Isaiah 26 removal chapter, and the gates are being opened early on in the chapter for the righteous nation.   Later is the same chapter, the dead and living righteous are 'hidden' in their chambers (hidden just like Zephaniah 2 says the righteous are hidden), which comports with John 14 where Yeshua is preparing rooms / chambers for us in the Father's house.   

In Revelation 4, a gate is standing open in heaven (see Isaiah 26:2).... after the 'these things' of of the churches which the letters are formally addressed to existing churches, following the outline of Revelation laid down by Yeshua in Revelation 1:19.... the things which have been, the things which are, and those things that will come after those.  And when the scroll is handed to Yeshua later, the 24 Elders call themselves Kings and Priests, redeemed of every tongue, tribe, nation, etc in Revelation 5.   1 Peter 2:9, Pete says that we are a royal priesthood.  That is equivalent to kings / priests.   And there is precedent for the 24 in 1 Chronicles 24 where David divided the entire priesthood into 24 divisions.   Each group / division named after its priestly elder... 24 Elders.    The 24 Elders which are kings and priests are standing in Heaven before the scroll is handed to Yeshua and the first seal is cracked open in Revelation 6.

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by OldCoot

[OldCoot]

2 hours ago, ENOCH2010 said:

No timing can be formed from the scriptures in 1 Thes. and the same can be said of the 1 Cor scriptures. 

The dead in Christ rise first then we which are alive and remain will join them to meet the lord in the air. Read about the first and second resurrections in Rev. 20 to see if you can find timing. 

Read about the dead being resurrected in Isaiah 26... Before the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth.   They are hidden in their rooms / chambers.   Zephaniah 2 says that the righteous are 'hidden' before the decree is issued.  Only two things have any possibility of being  candidates to fit "before the decree is issued" of the period.   The affirmation of the covenant in Daniel 9:27 which triggers the 7 year period, and the scroll being handed to Yeshua in Revelation 5.  

"first" resurrection does not mean first in order or timing.  It means first in rank, influence. preeminence, etc.   There have been resurrections and there will be multiple resurrections before the "first" resurrection of Revelation 20 which occurs at the start of the 1000 year Messianic Kingdom.    Matthew 27 resurrection of saints after Yeshua's resurrection, the pre 70th week resurrection, the resurrection of the two witnesses in Revelation 11 in the middle of the week, etc.

Edited February 15, 2020 by OldCoot

[Diaste]

12 hours ago, The Light said:

In the pre trib rapture it will be like the days Noah, where Noah is in the ark 7 days before the flood.

In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the fountains of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened. And the rain fell upon the earth for forty days and forty nights.

On that very day Noah entered the ark, 

Apparently Noah embarked on the same day as the flood began. According to the evidence.

You are taking about the time it took the animals to arrive and embark. That's the 7 days. 

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, The Light said:

It appears that I am not explaining myself very well. I do not believe that there are good Christians and not so good Christians that will be raptured later. I believe that there is a coming of the Lord when the GOODMAN will not know when the Lord is coming.

Matt 24

⁴² Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

⁴³ But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

⁴⁴ Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Then after the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, God will turn His attention to the 12 tribes that are scattered across the earth. When He comes this time we are told that these people will not be surprised at His coming. They will know when He is coming. They are not in darkness that that day will take them unaware.

Taken as a whole, Matt 24:36-51 is imploring believers to watch their behavior in light of the sudden nature of the Coming of the Lord. No one is ever going to know when the Lord is coming. Even if we know the year, month and week we cannot know the day and hour. That is axiomatic.

9 hours ago, The Light said:

1 Thes 5

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

² For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

³ For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

⁴ But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

⁵ Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

Two different comings of the Lord. The first time for the Church. The second time for the twelve tribes that are scattered across the earth. Should we be surprised that God keeps His promises to His people.

You just need an understanding of the TIMES AND SEASONS. Not TIME AND SEASON

You know Paul is speaking here about the difference between being caught by the day of doom and being aware of the approach of that destruction, don't you?

The day comes like a thief for all. Some are just ready for that moment and others are not. Does not mean two different days, it's diverse levels of awareness and preparedness.

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

When you can't rebut................

It just read like a dark fantasy. The disconnect seemed funny to me.

[Diaste]

16 hours ago, The Light said:

In 1 Cor 15 we see the dead rising at the last trump. The last trump is blown on the Feast of Trumpets. The Feast of Trumpets is the fall fruit harvest. It is the harvest of the 12 tribes of which the 144,000 are the 1st fruits of this harvest. 1st fruits is a guarantee of a harvest.

The LORD also said to Moses, “Speak to the Israelites and say, ‘On the first day of the seventh month you are to have a day of rest, a sacred assembly announced by trumpet blasts. You must not do any ordinary work, but you are to present an offering made by fire to the LORD.’”

This is all that is said about this sacred assembly. There is no 'first' trump here, neither is there a last; not by the word of the Lord, anyway. Man says there is a last trump here. Tradition says there is a last trump here; but it has nothing to do with any gathering of the elect to meet the Lord in the clouds of the air.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, OldCoot said:

 Only two things have any possibility of being  candidates to fit "before the decree is issued" of the period.  

Only two?

What about a decree to begin the day of the Lord? That seems to fit the context of Zeph 2:1-3.

Gather yourselves, gather together, O shameful nation, before the decree takes effect and the day passes like chaff, before the burning anger of the LORD comes upon you,

before the Day of the LORD’s anger comes upon you. Seek the LORD, all you humble of the earth who carry out His justice. Seek righteousness; seek humility.

Perhaps you will be sheltered on the day of the LORD’s anger."

There is no evidence here pointing to any decree issued by the hand of man. That idea is made up. It cannot be likened to Dan 9 either as this decree is more like a fulfillment (something prescribed or owed, a statute), and quite different from the covenant in Daniel 9 which is an alliance or a treaty. The concepts of the decree, the covenant and a papyrus scroll are not similar in origin, purpose, effect or result.

"Perhaps you will be sheltered in the day of the Lord's anger"...No doubt this is the wrath of God and the Lamb as depicted in Rev 6, well into the last week, well after the A of D. Pretrib nonsense relies on the false premise the 70th week is equivalent to God's wrath. It is not.