Is Theistic Evolution Tenable?

[one.opinion]

9 hours ago, Paul James said:

There is ample evidence of a catastrophic global flood when we look at the fossil record with fish dying suddenly before finishing eating the smaller fish they had in their mouths, Mammoths dug out of Arctic ice with vegetable matter still in their mouths showing they died before even finishing their mouthfuls of food; and a complete set of dinosaur bones showing that the animal had rolled over and over in a torrent of water

Certainly, that could be a topic of discussion and has been discussed elsewhere. However, it is not pertinent to a conversation on the creation account.

9 hours ago, Paul James said:

The foundation of the tower of Babel was well known until Alexander the Great had it demolished when he conquered that region, and recently under the ruins of Babylon, they have found the remnants of it.  So, archaeology confirms that the tower of Babel actually existed.

I'd be curious to check out references for these assertions, but still not related to Genesis 1-3.

9 hours ago, Paul James said:

Also, there is the question:  Did death enter into the world before or after Adam?

I would argue that the passages related to death in Genesis, and later in Romans (and other portions of the New Testament) would be more accurately interpreted as death in a spiritual sense.

Adam is told explicitly in Genesis 2:17 that he will die on the day he eats the fruit, yet he does not physically die on that day, but his spiritual connection with God was broken.

I believe this interpretation is more true to what the Bible actually says, and as a result, there is no reason to believe that death (nephesh or otherwise) had not occurred until Adam and Eve sinned.

[Paul James]

7 hours ago, one.opinion said:

Certainly, that could be a topic of discussion and has been discussed elsewhere. However, it is not pertinent to a conversation on the creation account.

I'd be curious to check out references for these assertions, but still not related to Genesis 1-3.

I would argue that the passages related to death in Genesis, and later in Romans (and other portions of the New Testament) would be more accurately interpreted as death in a spiritual sense.

Adam is told explicitly in Genesis 2:17 that he will die on the day he eats the fruit, yet he does not physically die on that day, but his spiritual connection with God was broken.

I believe this interpretation is more true to what the Bible actually says, and as a result, there is no reason to believe that death (nephesh or otherwise) had not occurred until Adam and Eve sinned.

I've that excuse before and it  doesn't wash.  If death occurred with Adam's disobedience, you will have to deny TE because TE assumes that death was always present right from the start of evolution.  If you say that death existed before Adam, you have to disbelieve the Bible and make the rest of the Bible meaningless, including the death of Christ on the cross - and that means no gospel of Christ, leading to no assurance of salvation, and hope only in this life.

[one.opinion]

2 hours ago, Paul James said:

If you say that death existed before Adam, you have to disbelieve the Bible

No, that means that I disbelieve your interpretation of the Bible. There is a rather significant difference.

Can you refute anything I wrote, or are you just going to dismiss it by claiming "it doesn't wash"?

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

No, that means that I disbelieve your interpretation of the Bible. There is a rather significant difference.

Can you refute anything I wrote, or are you just going to dismiss it by claiming "it doesn't wash"?

Plain english ... in the day you eat... shall surely die! There no interpretive leeway except for those needing to pervert the Scriptures for whatever foolishness they are on...

Rom 5:14

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
KJV
 

[one.opinion]

20 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

Plain english ... in the day you eat... shall surely die!

Yes... and Adam and Eve did not die physically that day. Are you intentionally supporting my point, or was that an accident? I’m a little worried about you...

[enoob57]

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

Yes... and Adam and Eve did not die physically that day. Are you intentionally supporting my point, or was that an accident? I’m a little worried about you...

God explains himself as long suffering not willing that any perish 2Pet 3:9 so  immediate death would not have given the first man an woman the ability to reason what was lost and repent... However at the very moment they ate death began in creation and that is the point... death began in creation at the time of eating according to God Who was there and that's where I will place the weight of my faith in what God says...

[one.opinion]

6 hours ago, enoob57 said:

God explains himself as long suffering not willing that any perish 2Pet 3:9 so  immediate death would not have given the first man an woman the ability to reason what was lost and repent...

Many people are very insistent that we must use the “plain reading” of scripture until the “plain reading” of scripture interferes with their preferred interpretation.

The Bible unambiguously says “on that day, you will surely die” in direct instructions to Adam. It doesn’t say anything about other animals, plants, microbes, etc. It says “you”, meaning Adam. Then Adam did exactly what he was told not to do with the consequences spelled out directly for him, and he did not physically die. That means that the death that occurred in Adam was not a physical death. I won’t go so far as to say “you are calling God a liar” if you don’t believe this (as you love to tell me), but you certainly are inconsistent in your belief in the “plain reading”.

[enoob57]

11 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

Many people are very insistent that we must use the “plain reading” of scripture until the “plain reading” of scripture interferes with their preferred interpretation.

The Bible unambiguously says “on that day, you will surely die” in direct instructions to Adam. It doesn’t say anything about other animals, plants, microbes, etc. It says “you”, meaning Adam. Then Adam did exactly what he was told not to do with the consequences spelled out directly for him, and he did not physically die. That means that the death that occurred in Adam was not a physical death. I won’t go so far as to say “you are calling God a liar” if you don’t believe this (as you love to tell me), but you certainly are inconsistent in your belief in the “plain reading”.

It's interesting satan said this as well
Gen 3:4
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
KJV

 

 

[one.opinion]

3 hours ago, enoob57 said:

It's interesting satan said this as well
Gen 3:4
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
KJV

 

 

Unsurprisingly, you are aren't reading for comprehension and making up side arguments as you go.

God said Adam would die the day he ate the fruit. Adam did not die physically on the day he ate the fruit. This much is indisputable. Logic would take you to the point that the death Adam experienced "that day" was not a physical one, but a spiritual one. This actually makes more sense when looking at Paul's comments later in the New Testament.

Comparing my argument to Satan's is a twist of the truth, or sometimes called a lie... Remind me again who the father of lies is?

[Paul James]

18 hours ago, one.opinion said:

No, that means that I disbelieve your interpretation of the Bible. There is a rather significant difference.

Can you refute anything I wrote, or are you just going to dismiss it by claiming "it doesn't wash"?

I just believe what is actually stated in Genesis.  I don't try and read anything into it.   Nothing I could say would change your mind on this, and you would find an argument against it whatever I submitted in order to refute what you wrote.  The reason is that you believe what you want to believe.  You understand perfectly well the traditional Christian belief in a literal Genesis that is the basis of the Gospel of Christ, but you don't want to believe it.  You choose to believe in a mythical, or allegorical Genesis and you will defend it to the max.